SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

[Steve]

Uh, well.... sorry Rogue.

Then again, we can both have Imperator-class, yes?

[RogueIce]

Uh, well.... sorry Rogue.

Then again, we can both have Imperator-class, yes?

Of course we could. Actually I'm toying with just calling them something else, so that I have an easier time naming them.

Either that or we'll be locked in a long, bitter war because we named our ship classes the same thing. But that seems like a silly reason to have a war.

[Coyote]

Once there was a war over a soccer game...

[Steve]

Well, you know how those silly foreigners are, especially Latin Americans and Europeans. Soccer is SERIOUS BUSINESS to them.

[Oskuro]

Yeah, guess why I'm trying to make my boyz not so much like soccer hoolligans...

[PeZook]

I won't mind as long as you tell me where that robot pic is from

Oh, I just stole the character of Legion from Mass Effect 2, I only added the snarky one liners, sociopathic personality and ironic comments on organics.

[Kartr_Kana]

So Legion with HK-47s programming?

[PeZook]

So Legion with HK-47s programming?

YES

Now you see how awesome he is?

[Steve]

And now I've given everyone their first look at the Strahl and her daring crew.

Including Marissa Moonbeam, of course.

I'm refraining from trying to "write" Bragulan dialogue until Shroom shows up and says how it works. I imagine how the whole thing works with the Strahl is that Umarbacca knows English quite well, but refuses to speak such an "inferior" language, while Balthier and Vanrya know Bragulan - and thus what Umarbacca is saying - but never use it themselves. Additionally Mr. Leeson - whom I forget to state by name, he's the fellow with the green lightsaber beamsaber - can probably communicate with Umarbacca to some degree with telepathy.

[PeZook]

Hell yeah! MARISSA MOONBEAM!

[Steve]

Hell yeah! MARISSA MOONBEAM!

Did you actually read the whole post or did you skim through it just to see Marissa's parts?

[PeZook]

Did you actually read the whole post or did you skim through it just to see Marissa's parts?

Yes, I did, but I was only interested in seeing if the Viking girl is a Moonbeam or not

EDIT: Also, I loved how these Solarian crewmembers fled in GIRLY FEAR upon seeing a Bragulan. I'm sure Shroom will, too

[Steve]

Did you actually read the whole post or did you skim through it just to see Marissa's parts?

Yes, I did, but I was only interested in seeing if the Viking girl is a Moonbeam or not

EDIT: Also, I loved how these Solarian crewmembers fled in GIRLY FEAR upon seeing a Bragulan. I'm sure Shroom will, too

More accurately, they fled in GIRLY FEAR at seeing a Bragulan in full power armor. I really should've made more of a panserbjørne reference there.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Meh.. I should write up stuff on my Inquisitors' hunt for rogue AIs, and stupid xenos.

[K. A. Pital]

I've made up a draft for my nation. Could the mods (and others, if willing, too) give some suggestions for the military?

The Commune
Points: 22

1 Home Sector (colloquially referred to as Commune), GDP +$3000 (1 NCP)
2 Core Sectors (10 NCP)
3 Midrange Sectors (9 NCP)
2 Warp Gates (in Core Sectors) (2 NCP)

GDP of nation: $57 000

Military
Navy: carriers, cruisers, destroyers, fighters and gunboats.
Army: 10% elites with elite equip, 30% regulars with advanced equip, 60% conscripts with basic equip.

[Darkevilme]

Well i'm not sure if its still a suggestion as i wrote it out. But one possible loadout would be:

$57000 base GDP

Army:
7.5k, 1.05 billion soldiers

-$3k 150 million Elite Commune troopers (x3 kit modifier, 50,000 soldiers per $)
-$3k 300 million Commune regulars (x2 kit modifier, 100,000 soldiers per $)
-$1.5k 600 million Commune conscripts (x1 kit modifier, 200,00 soldiers per $)

Navy:
$49500

Ship types:

Small craft (bundled in with their carriers, not needed to be bought seperately most of the time)
Fighter: 12 per $
Bomber: 6 per $

Carrier budget: $25000
Megacarrier (ultra heavy design) 20 in service. $500 each, total cost $10000
A massive vessel with multiple flight decks, carries 1800 fighters and 600 bombers. While the vessel has decent shields and armour however it is armed only with point defence batteries and very few anti ship cannons.

Carrier (Super Heavy design) 40 in service. $500 each, total cost $10000
Smaller more economic version of the megacarrier with the same limitations and only 900 fighters and 300 fighters on its flight deck.

Cruiser-carrier (Super heavy design) 25 in service, $200 each. Total cost $5000
A hybrid vessel that overcomes some of the short comings of the pure carrier designs.While only able to carry a modest 360 fighters and 120 bombers the cruiser carrier's reduced flight deck made room for a few batteries of cannon and extra armour plating allowing the cruiser to at least fight even though it has combat strength is equivalent to that of a vessel half its weight if you exclude its fighter and bomber complement.

Cruiser budget: $19600

Cruiser (Medium design) 170 in service, $80 each. Total cost: $13600
Cruiser's escort carrier's and do patrols, they have good shields and a decent cannon battery for their size.

Battlecruiser (Heavy design) 50 in service, $120 each. Total cost: $6000
Bigger stronger version of cruiser.

Frigate budget: $4900

Scout frigate (ultra light design) 195 in service, $20 each. Total cost:$3900
A small ship with good sensors and engines.
Attack frigate(light design) 40 in service, $25 each. Total cost: $1000
As above but trades sensors for cannons.
Ship shortlist

20 megacarriers $500 each $10000 total
40 carriers $250 each $10000 total
25 cruiser-carriers $200 each $5000 total
170 cruisers $80 each $13600 total
50 battlecruisers $120 each $6000 total
195 scout frigates $20 each $3900 total
40 attack frigates $25 each $1000 total

Of course names and descriptions would need to be tweaked to flavour.

[loomer]

Space Communists demand two things. One, lasers. Two, every large ship must have its own Soviet. That's about the sum of my opinions - if you want I could throw some of my sci-fi's USSR designs your way.

[K. A. Pital]

Large ships have their vessel Soviets obviously, which makes the Commune a very unique structure. Kinda like the Culture or something like a Maoist rebellion - speech is free, and everyone can speak out, but everyone acts as a cohesive structure (and this is why the Commune functions still) because all share the same ideology.

Deviations are tolerated, but those who deviate are encouraged to build their own settlements outside of the Commune itself.

Where the Commune ends, one can't say; just like one can't say where exactly it begins. Any communist is considered by the Commune a citizen of itself (even if he's currently outside), which makes some international relations problematic, obviously. To avoid getting mired in a war, most nations who dislike communists try to preventively deport theirs to the Commune.

The Commune is not entirely anarchic, however - it's kept in line by the Final Argument. That is a AI-linked portion of the Commune's Navy, controlled by the Supreme Soviet. Thus technically the Soviet can crush any single Commune ship and even most ad-hoc unions and groups.

The Commune's economy is a massive energy grid administered by the Supreme Soviet. Scarcity in food and shelter for all citizens of the Commune is eliminated, but the conditions of life are spartan (often more than spartan, especially for volunteering soldiers); entertainment is free, but luxury consumption is nigh abscent.

The Supreme Soviet is elected on a universal voting basis, but has quotas - neither ESPs, nor ordinary humans, neither a third type of beings (often mockingly called "clouds") can have more than 30% of it's seats. Therefore, a balance between the ordinary Homo Sapiens and the ESP is maintained.

The use of nanotechologies is one of the great secrets of the Commune. Ordinary citizens can live as long as they want, since they're infused with anti-agathics. However, no one really knows what happens to some persons, which includes elite forces and some of the Commune's intellectual establishment. Word has it that they're attempting to fuse with technology and thus become "clouds". So far it's not known whether clouds are just humans with a greater share of biotissue-repairing nanobots, or if they're composed from artificial mechanisms entirely. The latter is probable, but apparently the assimilation process is long. ESP abilities are lost if one undergoes clouding. The Commune's elite troops require clouding to serve. Regular forces use more simple and less expensive tech, such as battlesuits and energy weapons. In fact, people often criticize the Commune's clouding process, hinting that there's a factory of nanorobots which can't supply all. Therefore, the clouding itself creates a class division in the society claiming to be classless. However, the clouds mockingly reject that and openly offer clouding to the universe. Since the effects of clouding are unknown, obviously few except for dedicated communists are willing to do it, in other nations. Some suspect clouding is a ploy - the promise of immortality for all is exchanged for loyalty to the Commune itself, and a cloud can never rebel against the Commune.

Even if clouds ever rebelled, the Commune made tremendous effort to erase any historical hints at that. The clouds rarely travel outside the Commune, which also contributes to the outside perception of a dangerous elite with unclear interests in mind.

Rumors also swell about the fused, beings that incorporate the minds of more than one human individual - a new step for the clouds. The fused are said to be the oldest and most reverred members of society. However, the fused decline public service - they only serve as consultants, but never take responsibility. Many think that the fused are not concerned with routine Commune problems, or those of the world for that matter. Outside the Commune, the existence of the fused is a rare rumor and few know about them - their numbers among the Commune's billions of beings must be pretty sparse.

History of the Commune is pretty simple - it was founded by a daring, romantic space mission of Communists from the same city on the SDNW2 world (now long forgotten). The Commune by that time posessed advanced manufacturing facilities, which allowed them to establish a good tech base on their new homeworld. From there they developed.

[Simon_Jester]

Good Space Commies, Stas!

Also, on the subject of Stas's fleet:

Cruiser-carrier (Super heavy design) 25 in service, $200 each. Total cost $5000
A hybrid vessel that overcomes some of the short comings of the pure carrier designs.While only able to carry a modest 360 fighters and 120 bombers the cruiser carrier's reduced flight deck made room for a few batteries of cannon and extra armour plating allowing the cruiser to at least fight even though it has combat strength is equivalent to that of a vessel half its weight if you exclude its fighter and bomber complement.

Steve came up with a rule to the effect that a hybrid ship like this costs as much as its 'battleship' and 'carrier' component ships welded together. Thus, a ship that fights like a 40$ destroyer (frigate?) and has the small craft capacity of a 40$ escort carrier (thus, carries 20$ of small craft) costs 80$.

Does the hybrid design comply with this? You've got what looks like 50$ of small craft capability (100$ worth of carrier) plus... 100$ worth of big-gun ship, looks like, so that's 200$, which works.

[Steve]

Hadn't put the hybrid stuff on the ruleset page yet, but yeah, that bit came out during an AIM convo I was having with Jester.

Oh, Stas, I did state in fluff (the Interstellar Travel page on the wiki) that Commune-1 is still kicking; it was one of the three scientific establishments that produced Warp Gate technology (in cooperation with FermiLab and CERN of Earth).

[K. A. Pital]

Okay, but these guys have long separated from Commune-1; I was thinking about a group of idealists who decided to start a communist civ from scratch... and the result - a meaner and more primitive "Culture". I already have vessel designs (just borrowed them from Coolhand Tyler, thanks to him for making Soviet-looking starships).

[Kartr_Kana]

Ok quick break down of what I've got sector-wise.

NPCs: 25

Homeworld (Hiigara): Free w/14k GDP, Hyper junction and Warp gate
Core Sector (Sjet): 6pts w/11k GDP, Warp Gate
Core Sector (Naabal): 7pts w/12k GDP, Hyper Junction
Mid-range Sector (Somtaaw): 3pts w/6k GDP
Mid-range Sector (Manaan): 3pts w/6k GDP
Mid-range Sector (Paktu): 3pts w/6k GDP
Mid-range Sector (Vaygr/Bentus?): 3pts w/6k GDP

NPCs Spent: 25 GDP: $61k

Comments, Complaints, Concerns?

[Coyote]

Good Space Commies, Stas!

Also, on the subject of Stas's fleet:

Cruiser-carrier (Super heavy design) 25 in service, $200 each. Total cost $5000
A hybrid vessel that overcomes some of the short comings of the pure carrier designs.While only able to carry a modest 360 fighters and 120 bombers the cruiser carrier's reduced flight deck made room for a few batteries of cannon and extra armour plating allowing the cruiser to at least fight even though it has combat strength is equivalent to that of a vessel half its weight if you exclude its fighter and bomber complement.

Steve came up with a rule to the effect that a hybrid ship like this costs as much as its 'battleship' and 'carrier' component ships welded together. Thus, a ship that fights like a 40$ destroyer (frigate?) and has the small craft capacity of a 40$ escort carrier (thus, carries 20$ of small craft) costs 80$.

Does the hybrid design comply with this? You've got what looks like 50$ of small craft capability (100$ worth of carrier) plus... 100$ worth of big-gun ship, looks like, so that's 200$, which works.

Okay, so, does that mean folks can mix-and-match? Can you make a $200 Carrier but upgrade it with $50.00 worth of Frigate weaponry upgrade to make a slightly more combat-capable Carrier? A "weapons enhancement package" so to speak?

Or does a hybrid design have to match the Carrier points one-for-one?

[Steve]

Good Space Commies, Stas!

Also, on the subject of Stas's fleet:

Cruiser-carrier (Super heavy design) 25 in service, $200 each. Total cost $5000
A hybrid vessel that overcomes some of the short comings of the pure carrier designs.While only able to carry a modest 360 fighters and 120 bombers the cruiser carrier's reduced flight deck made room for a few batteries of cannon and extra armour plating allowing the cruiser to at least fight even though it has combat strength is equivalent to that of a vessel half its weight if you exclude its fighter and bomber complement.

Steve came up with a rule to the effect that a hybrid ship like this costs as much as its 'battleship' and 'carrier' component ships welded together. Thus, a ship that fights like a 40$ destroyer (frigate?) and has the small craft capacity of a 40$ escort carrier (thus, carries 20$ of small craft) costs 80$.

Does the hybrid design comply with this? You've got what looks like 50$ of small craft capability (100$ worth of carrier) plus... 100$ worth of big-gun ship, looks like, so that's 200$, which works.

Okay, so, does that mean folks can mix-and-match? Can you make a $200 Carrier but upgrade it with $50.00 worth of Frigate weaponry upgrade to make a slightly more combat-capable Carrier? A "weapons enhancement package" so to speak?

Or does a hybrid design have to match the Carrier points one-for-one?

One way of looking at it. Another way is that you want a ship with $100 carrying capacity but which is not a carrier and has some anti-ship capability, so you design a ship that is $300 in cost so it has bare Heavy anti-ship capability on top of that $100 worth of fighters. The down side is, of course, that you just increased the cost of the ship by 50% (from $200 to $300) and even if it can now blow up a $100-rated ship even without its fighter/gunboat wings, it's also 3x the cost.

Okay, but these guys have long separated from Commune-1

Oh, sure, I was just saying that Commune-1 is still around. Though if you and Shady want to play with the UCSR's history up to the founding of the UN and stuff like the tumult of the "Great Upheaval" period, go for it.

[Simon_Jester]

Okay, so, does that mean folks can mix-and-match? Can you make a $200 Carrier but upgrade it with $50.00 worth of Frigate weaponry upgrade to make a slightly more combat-capable Carrier? A "weapons enhancement package" so to speak?

Or does a hybrid design have to match the Carrier points one-for-one?

Yeah, you can mix and match. It started because I wanted to build a "strike cruiser" equivalent to a 40$ destroyer welded to a 20$ troopship welded to a 20$ mini-carrier.

Of course, as others say, it's kind of a wash. That 200$ carrier can handle a 20$ frigate easily enough, and I'd imagine that its defensive shielding and armor will be enough to let it survive against a 50$ ship without escort. It will lack the offensive firepower to kill the 50$ ship, but shouldn't just be blown out of space casually, I'd think.

The point of this method is that you don't really gain anything by using a hybrid ship except flavor; it works just as well (arguably better) to have a 50$ big-gun ship escorting a 200$ carrier as it does to build a 250$ gun-carrier with the combat power of a 50$ big-gun ship