Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by Bounty »

Previously, in Belgium:

Various cases of sex abuse by priests pop up, as they have been doing elsewhere in the world. The Church responds by putting together a commission, lead by a noted child psychiatrist, to collect testimonies and work with the authorities to see which cases are still prosecutable. Then rumours start surfacing that the higher-ups knew about the abuse for years and didn't act. Evidently those rumours are now concrete enough for the police to take action rather dramatically.
BBC News wrote:Belgian authorities have raided the headquarters of the Belgian Catholic Church during an investigation into child sex abuse claims.

A spokesman for the Brussels prosecutors' office confirmed that the palace of the Archbishop of Mechelen-Brussels had been sealed off.

Police have also raided the home of retired Archbishop Godfried Danneels.


Belgium is one of several countries in which a stream of abuse claims have shaken the Roman Catholic Church.

Brussels prosecutors were looking for material relating to allegations of sex abuse, a spokesman for the prosecutors' office said.

"This is a case that the Brussels prosecutors' office received recently, containing a statement of facts in relation to alleged sexual abuse of minors by a number of people within the church," said Jean-Marc Meilleur.

"The object of the searches is to verify the declaration and eventually gather evidence about these declarations," he added.

At the home of retired Archbishop Godfried Danneels in Mechelen, just north of Brussels, police took documents but did not question the archbishop, said his spokesman, Hans Geybels.

Police did take away his computer, and Archbishop Danneels was fully co-operating, Mr Geybels said.

"The cardinal believes justice must run its normal course. He has nothing against that," he added.

Separately, the offices of an independent commission set up to look into cases of sexual abuse have also been raided.

Papal pledge

An inquiry into child sex abuse in the Catholic Church in Belgium has been running for several years.

In April, the then-bishop of the Belgian city of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, resigned after admitting that he had sexually abused a boy earlier in his career.

At the time, Archbishop Andre-Joseph Leonard said the move showed that the Church wanted to "resolutely turn a page on a very painful" topic.

In recent months, allegations of abuse levelled against Catholic priests have surfaced in many countries.

There have also been accusations that Church authorities in Europe and North and South America failed to deal with cases openly or properly.

Pope Benedict XVI himself has been accused of being part of a culture of secrecy, and of not taking strong enough steps against abusers when he had that responsibility as a cardinal in Rome.

However, his supporters say he has been the most pro-active pope yet in confronting abuse.

The Pope pledged in April to "bring to justice" Church officials responsible for abuse.

The Vatican also made it explicit that sex abuse cases should be reported to police if required by law.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by wautd »

Priests were already getting harrased since the last big scandal. If it turns out that even someone like Danneels has his hands dirty, the amount of backlash would be huge. I can't see the church recovering from such scandal any time soon if that was the case.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I'm amazed the RCC has any followers at all with the last few years' worth of scandals regarding priests being kiddie fiddlers. I mean, what kind of person wants to support an organisation that has gone out of its way to cover up the most massive child sex abuse ring in history?
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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As much as I can applaud a thorough investigation into child abuse, the police did make a SNAFU when they confiscated the files collected by the commission. By all accounts it was doing a good job providing a confidential for victims to get heard and to have it raided may not have been a smart move. Especially since they were about to bring the hammer down on Danneels.

Incidentally, if Danneels really was aware of the abuse, I'll be outraged. he always came across as a very sensible and modern archbishop, I defended him, and now it may turn out he's as bad as the rest of them.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by wautd »

Bounty wrote: Incidentally, if Danneels really was aware of the abuse, I'll be outraged. he always came across as a very sensible and modern archbishop, I defended him, and now it may turn out he's as bad as the rest of them.
ditto
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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And the Church expresses its outrage. At the raid:
Vatican astonished at Belgian police raid

By ALESSANDRA RIZZO, Associated Press Writer Alessandra Rizzo, Associated Press Writer – 50 mins ago

VATICAN CITY – The Vatican said Friday it was astonished and outraged that Belgian police investigating priestly sex abuse had conducted raids that also targeted the graves of two archbishops.

The Vatican summoned the Belgian ambassador to the Holy See to convey its anger over the raids, which also included the home and offices of the retired archbishop of Belgium. The ambassador was called in for a meeting with the Vatican's foreign minister.

In a statement, the Vatican said any sinful and criminal abuse of minors from members of the church must be condemned and repeated that there is a need for justice and amends.

But it added, "The Secretariat of State also expresses astonishment at the way in which the search took place." It expressed "outrage over the violation of the tombs."

On Thursday, police raided the home and former office of former Archbishop Godfried Danneels, taking documents and Danneels' personal computer. Police and prosecutors did not say if Danneels was suspected of abuse himself or simply had records pertaining to allegations against another person. He was not questioned.

Investigators also opened the graves of archbishops in the St. Rombouts Cathedral in Mechlin, north of Brussels, looking for possibly incriminating documents, said Jean-Marc Meilleur, spokesman for the Brussels public prosecutor.

Archbishop Andre-Joseph Leonard, Belgium's current archbishop, condemned the search of the cathedral, saying that is stuff for "crime novels and 'The Da Vinci Code.'"

Separately, police seized the records of an independent panel investigating sexual abuse by priests, some 500 cases in all. The victims are mostly men now in their 60s and 70s.

This also drew the condemnation of the Vatican, which said it regretted the violation of the confidentiality due the victims of child abuse.

The Brussels prosecutor's office said the raids followed recent statements to police related to the sexual abuse of children within the church.

It was the latest development in a sex abuse scandal that has shaken the Roman Catholic Church in Europe and beyond for months.

Reports of rape and other sexual abuse of minors in seminars, schools and other church-run institutions have piled up. Victims have come forward accusing priests of abuse and bishops of covering up crimes in order to safeguard the church's name.

Pope Benedict XVI has begged forgiveness from victims and promised to "do everything possible" to protect children.

News of the Belgian raid was welcomed by the U.S. victims group SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, which urged police and prosecutors across the world to use their full powers to gain access to church records. By contrast, the group criticized the Vatican's reaction.

"Vatican officials who criticize the Belgian police raid of the Brussels church hierarchy should be ashamed of themselves," Joelle Casteix of SNAP said in a statement Friday. "While Roman church officials talk about stopping abuse, Belgian police officials take action to stop abuse."

___

Associated Press Writer Robert Wielaard in Brussels contributed to this report.
Would that the Church be as outraged at its own behavior...
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by Zed »

Why are the American victim groups applauding this? Dozens of Belgian victims have raised concerns to the Commission Adriaenssens about their files being handed over to the Justice Department. They're angry that their privacy has been breached, that their parents and/or wives might find out that they've been abused, that they'd be mocked, etc. (Note: none of these cases are subject to prosecution - they occurred too long ago.)
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Now it seems the Vatican is responding viciously to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10425090.stm
The Vatican has stepped up its criticism of raids by Belgian police investigating alleged child sex abuse, calling the detention of priests "serious and unbelievable".

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican Secretary of State, said "there are no precedents, not even under the old communist regimes".

He claimed the priests were held for nine hours without eating or drinking.

Several buildings of the Belgium Church were searched on Thursday.

Bishops holding a meeting there were barred from leaving the premises for several hours.

"It was sequestration, a serious and unbelievable act," said Cardinal Bertone.
'Astonishment'

Police in Leuven seized nearly 500 files and a computer from the offices of a Church commission investigating allegations of sex abuse.

They also searched the Church's headquarters, the Brussels archdiocese in Mechelen, north of the Belgian capital.

Prosecutors have said the raids were over alleged "abuse of minors committed by a certain number of Church figures".

On Friday, the Vatican voiced "astonishment" at how the raids have been carried out, saying police had drilled holes in two archbishops' tombs.

The Vatican said the raids had led to the "violation of confidentiality of precisely those victims for whom the raids were carried out".

The Vatican has summoned the Belgian ambassador to the Holy See to voice their anger at the incident.

The Catholic Church in Belgium has apologised for its silence on abuse cases in the past.

I really don't get it. Archbishop Léonard and Professor Adriaenssens were making their case well. Their complaints were reasoned and nuanced - worries about the wishes/privacy of the victims, worries about paying the wages of the bishopric's employees in time (which was made difficult if not impossible by the fact that all computers were confiscated) and a slight jest about digging up the graves of bishops fitting in the Da Vinci Code rather than in a proper investigation. They were convincing and seemed in touch with reality. Then, the Vatican comes up with something like this. For the record, although it doesn't seem to be included in this article, said Cardinal also said that the actions of the police were worse than a conviction for child abuse.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by Highlord Laan »

It's high time the fucking church is taught it's not above the law. Tossing a couple pedo priests in general population should start getting that point across.

Sorry, pope Palpatine, your sickening mass delusion complex doesn't get to police itself anymore. Welcome to the modern age.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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It's Tarcisio Bertone. Histrionics are to be expected; it's very much his style, and has been for years. The Vatican will whine for a while and then go back to being suspiciously quiet on the subject, and hoping it'll just all go away in time.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Maybe, just maybe they will find evidence of cover-ups regarding Belgium, Germany, and all the other countries sexual abuse of minors by catholic
priests took place in. A pity none of these countries has the cojones to actually persecute the institution of the Catholic Church instead of singled out
priests and bishops. Because you know, hundreds and hundreds of cases throughout the world don´t warrant the suspicion that maybe,
just maybe all these incidents have something to do with the catholic church per se.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Whether or not they did the right thing aside here... why the hell are the authorities grave digging? What is that supposed to accomplish? I don't get it.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Because of the horrific practice of Catholic Priests being buried with a child so they can sodomize them in the afterlife. :P
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Kuroji wrote:Whether or not they did the right thing aside here... why the hell are the authorities grave digging? What is that supposed to accomplish? I don't get it.
They wanted to see if the crypts were used to store incriminating documents.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Empope does not approve:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/10427935.stm
Pope Benedict has joined mounting Vatican criticism of raids by Belgian police investigating alleged child sex abuse, calling them "deplorable".

In a message to Belgian bishops, the pope expressed his solidarity "in this moment of sadness".

Several buildings were searched in raids targeting a retired archbishop and the graves of two prelates.

Prosecutors said the action concerned alleged "abuse of minors committed by a certain number of Church figures".

Police in Leuven, central Belgium, on Thursday seized nearly 500 files and a computer from the offices of a Church commission investigating allegations of sex abuse.

They also searched the Church's headquarters and the Brussels archdiocese in Mechelen, north of the Belgian capital.

Pope Benedict's criticism of the raids came in a message of support to Brussels Archbishop Andre Joseph Leonard, the head of the Belgian bishops' conference.

"I want to express, dear brother in the Episcopate, as well as to all the Bishops of Belgium, my closeness and solidarity in this moment of sadness, in which, with certain surprising and deplorable methods, searches were carried out."

"I hope that justice will follow its course while guaranteeing the rights of individuals and institutions, respecting the rights of victims, (and) acknowledging those who undertake to collaborate with it," Pope Benedict said.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Sharp-kun wrote:Empope does not approve:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/10427935.stm

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Fuck the pope. If it had been ANY other organisation than the Church being hit by this kind of stuff, justice departments all over the world would be very very busy dismantling the whole load of crap.
As it is Joey The Rat sees this as the first real cracks appearing in the untouchability of the Church proper. And that's a GOOD thing.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Zed wrote:Why are the American victim groups applauding this? Dozens of Belgian victims have raised concerns to the Commission Adriaenssens about their files being handed over to the Justice Department. They're angry that their privacy has been breached, that their parents and/or wives might find out that they've been abused, that they'd be mocked, etc. (Note: none of these cases are subject to prosecution - they occurred too long ago.)
Are there no provisions for the Belgian police to keep the documents private? And quite frankly, what kind of family members would mock someone for being abused? If that is a big worry for someone, he or she probably has a family not worth having a lot of contact with in the first place.

That aside, I don't know if the Belgian police have a reputation for heavy-handedness or extralegal behavior (frankly, all I know about Belgian policing comes from watching Poirot :D ), but until I see otherwise, I will assume that the Belgian Police acted legally and correctly. Frankly, the Church doth protest too much, as far as I am concerned. A few holes were drilled into the tombs? So what? If the police have the proper warrants and legal justification and they have suspicion that relevant evidence might be hidden in such a place (where better to hide something that you don't want found?), then I don't see the problem. No one is harmed and drill holes can be patched invisibly. I don't know anything about this matter other than what I've read, but I don't see how the police acted improperly. If I'm wrong, so be it. But for now, in this matter, I'm going to go with the word of the police and prosecutors over the word of the Church. The Church has done nothing but stonewall and cry persecution again and again. They refuse to clean up their act. Now, I hope, someone else can.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Are there no provisions for the Belgian police to keep the documents private? And quite frankly, what kind of family members would mock someone for being abused?
The police have already stated that the documents will be kept private.

And don't underestimate the stigma that's still attached to rape victims. If I had been molested by a priest I would not want the world to know either.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by Zed »

FSTargetDrone wrote:
Zed wrote:Why are the American victim groups applauding this? Dozens of Belgian victims have raised concerns to the Commission Adriaenssens about their files being handed over to the Justice Department. They're angry that their privacy has been breached, that their parents and/or wives might find out that they've been abused, that they'd be mocked, etc. (Note: none of these cases are subject to prosecution - they occurred too long ago.)
Are there no provisions for the Belgian police to keep the documents private? And quite frankly, what kind of family members would mock someone for being abused? If that is a big worry for someone, he or she probably has a family not worth having a lot of contact with in the first place.
Most of the cases the Commission dealt with are at least thirty-five to fourty years old; many of the victims of then are now in their sixties. (Younger victims cannot generally get help solely from the Commission - it had an agreement with the Justice Department that it would only handle cases that had passed the stature of limitations.) When these people were young, Belgium was still a deeply Catholic country. Some of the victims weren't believed by their parents and subsequently mocked for trying to get attention or harassed for trying to discredit the local priest. Some of the victims approached the police... and witnessed that the local police chief called the bishop in order to ask how to handle the case. Although the Justice Department may be more professional now, I understand the victims' grievances and worries upon hearing that the Justice Department has now acquired the files. It feels like a breach of confidence to them: they wanted to help the Church deal with the issue of child abuse, not risk publicizing their case. It doesn't help that recently, a Brussels magistrate has answered a statement that victims didn't want the files to be disclosed with "That's too bad for them." (Roughly from memory - that was the gist of what was said, including the tone of the remark.)

All in all, the Belgian Church protested relatively mildly, unlike what this media attention seems to indicate. Professor Adriaensens gave a press conference because he realized that his Commission was now out of business: it no longer has any files - everything has been confiscated. The press conference seemed to be prompted by a large amount of complaints from victims who felt their confidence was broken. This was particularly so as the Justice Department had had an agreement with the Commission - but the magistrate responsible for that agreement wasn't even warned of these recent searches. Archbishop Léonard had some questions about the 'modalities' of the investigation - the drilling holes into tombs, the taking of all computers and all files without a clear reason why -, but he has always acknowledged the legal right of the Justice Department to do so. His complaints were rather mild and in some cases, somewhat in jest. All in all, the Church won the P.R. battle on this case until Cardinal Bertone stepped in.

For the record, the Church hasn't merely stonewalled and cried persecution in Belgium. It set up an independent commission in order to investigate claims of child abuse in cooperation with the Justice Department and not limited to the statute of limitations. Archbishop Léonard has been very straightforward about the 'sins of the Church' and has acknowledged the fault of the Church as an institution long before the Pope did. Belgian Church officials and Prof. Adriaensens have acknowledged that the practices of the Church in hiding these scandals were quite misguided.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

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Trying to find an English source, but among the documents found during the search were confidential files an autopsy reports of the Dutroux case. Now it just got weird.
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Re: Belgian Catholic offices raided in sex abuse probe

Post by Zed »

Yes. If what the reports are detailing now is true, I'll have to withdraw my initial skepticism. This is seriously disturbing stuff. Pictures of the digging up of the corpses of Julie and Melissa? Pictures of the autopsy? What the hell would Danneels need those for?
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