The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[MysteriousDarkLordv3]

The only two-thumbed critter I know of is the koala. Perhaps a sentient race that died out before humans arrived?

[EarthScorpion]

The only two-thumbed critter I know of is the koala. Perhaps a sentient race that died out before humans arrived?

Well, Giant Pandas have a pseudo-thumb, that's actually part of their wrist bone, warped such that it protrudes out like a thumb would.

I suspect that this isn't relevant, though, cool though it would be to have a chorus of ancient giant pandas in heaven.

[MysteriousDarkLordv3]

I suspect that this isn't relevant, though, cool though it would be to have a chorus of ancient giant pandas in heaven.

A chorus of ancient giant singing koalas is cool, too! (And they come with that great eucalyptus scent!)

EDIT: Assuming they survive the liberation, where would the Chorus go? I suspect they would want to go somewhere very, very quiet with no incense.

[XaLEv]

On the subject of mining nuclear fuel in Hell, there's an issue of how old the place is, and especially the age of the matter inside it. Too much older than Earth and the number of half lives it's gone through might make getting good fuel in good quantities difficult, if those elements even existed there in the first place.

[MysteriousDarkLordv3]

On the subject of mining nuclear fuel in Hell, there's an issue of how old the place is, and especially the age of the matter inside it. Too much older than Earth and the number of half lives it's gone through might make getting good fuel in good quantities difficult, if those elements even existed there in the first place.

And if entropy is more powerful, the half-lives might be shorter. But the basic theory says that the bubble-verses are in their collapsing stage. If that's so, i don't think that there's any radioactive isotopes anywhere.

[iidave]

Wow a plenty of people anwered Ilya for me.
Most nukes are currently in various armories on military bases. A surprise commando raid could either steal them or at least damage them to the point of uselessness.
On the entire planet, there are less than 1000 ICBMs, many of those on mobile platforms (trains, trucks). Silos are only protected by infantery so the defenders would hardly be a problem for a Baldrick commando raid. WW2era Baldricks would have access to shaped charges, and blast doors are tough but not indestructible. A silo like one of these could be taken over in an hour.
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009 ... lear-silo/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martintrol ... 469877183/
The only nukes completely beyond Baldricks' reach would be those on submarines.

[Simon_Jester]

And if entropy is more powerful, the half-lives might be shorter. But the basic theory says that the bubble-verses are in their collapsing stage. If that's so, i don't think that there's any radioactive isotopes anywhere.

...

What does "the power of entropy" or the rate of expansion (or contraction) of the universe have to do with the half-life of radioisotopes? I mean, in unambiguous terms that actually mean something to scientists?

[impatrick4life]

The only nukes completely beyond Baldricks' reach would be those on submarines.

Even that's not entirely true. There are sea-based Baldricks (remember the Herald killed by the Brit sub?). In fact, one of the lords, I forget which, had a legion almost entirely composed of "krakens." Although they would have to be totally true to legend (and very lucky) in order for the Baldricks to capture an SLBM (i.e. bringing an SSBM to the surface, where a Harpy/Gorgon could summon a portal for ground-based Baldricks to board), they could probably sink the sub without much of a problem if they came in numbers.

[Ilya Muromets]

Wow a plenty of people anwered Ilya for me.
Most nukes are currently in various armories on military bases. A surprise commando raid could either steal them or at least damage them to the point of uselessness.
On the entire planet, there are less than 1000 ICBMs, many of those on mobile platforms (trains, trucks). Silos are only protected by infantery so the defenders would hardly be a problem for a Baldrick commando raid. WW2era Baldricks would have access to shaped charges, and blast doors are tough but not indestructible. A silo like one of these could be taken over in an hour.
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009 ... lear-silo/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martintrol ... 469877183/
The only nukes completely beyond Baldricks' reach would be those on submarines.

Those are photos of a clearly deactivated and abandoned silos. How is that an illustration for an active silo? And while silos may be protected on the ground with infantry, they have communications to call for helicopter-delivered backup and air support. Not saying that raid wouldn't damage them to the point of mission killing them, but it's not as quick and simple as you make out out to be.

In which case, the point is still moot. Look at all my comments so far. The weapons I have always said were more likely to be used are plane-delivered B-61 gravity bombs and other similar weapons from those who have them. ICBMs can't be retargetted through portals quickly, so any nuke strike against Hell would have to be using plane-lofted weapons. And there are still hundreds of those active, spread around the world in several facilities. America's B-61s are mostly spread around military bases within striking distance of Europe and within several bases in US territory. Ditto for all the other countries who have them. No idiot keeps all his nukes in one facility to be taken out easily. Some of the american ones are even on aircraft carriers should the need arise (although you'll never get official admission about that).

And, again, these commando strikes assume that demons can port in with absolute precision when they have show an ability to do that only when they have an anchor Earth side. What, there's a nephilim conveniently located within each of all the numerous bases the nuclear stockpiles of plane-mounted nukes are kept? They have to put them around the general area first, find the damn base, then portal in the commando team. They have to do that on foot to remain stealthy, which takes a fuckload of time. Unless, of course, they put in flying scouts, but demons can be tracked by radar since we can aim radar-guided missiles at them with no problem. They put in vehicles, that's gonna get them noticed a lot sooner. They send in a mind-disguised infiltrator first? They get fucked the minute someone spots them on security monitors which, y'know, secure military bases have.

EDIT: And, again, this all begs the question of how they even get to know EXCATLY the location of EVERY SINGLE ONE of humanity's nuclear arsenal to disable it all on one strike. Again, this all assumes perfect, hyper-competence from the demonic side which assumes absolutely nothing goes wrong and that the humans won't be able to put up any resistance beyond that displayed by a bunch of hollywood extras. But, hey, why not?This scenario pretty much pure Turtledove: the Baldricks are apparently gung-ho ingenious Tosevites while humanity is the dumbshit, can't-resist-properly Race.

[impatrick4life]

And if entropy is more powerful, the half-lives might be shorter. But the basic theory says that the bubble-verses are in their collapsing stage. If that's so, i don't think that there's any radioactive isotopes anywhere.

...

What does "the power of entropy" or the rate of expansion (or contraction) of the universe have to do with the half-life of radioisotopes? I mean, in unambiguous terms that actually mean something to scientists?

It's not anything to do with the entropy in this case; it's just that the universe, being in a contracting state, is probably extremely old (if it's in perfect symmetry with ours, its age would be precisely the inverse of ours, relative to the point of maximum expansion). Thus most of the radioactive elements and their isotopes have already decayed. To massively simplify: If, say, U235 was present in the exact same amounts at the beginning of that universe as it was at the beginning of ours, then there'd be an exponentially smaller amount available in Hell. If entropy is greater there as well, thereby shortening half-lives, there may not even be enough U235 in all of Hell to make a functioning nuke - depending on the age difference between our two universes.

[SilverHawk]

And, again, these commando strikes assume that demons can port in with absolute precision when they have show an ability to do that only when they have an anchor Earth side. What, there's a nephilim conveniently located within each of all the numerous bases the nuclear stockpiles of plane-mounted nukes are kept? They have to put them around the general area first, find the damn base, then portal in the commando team. They have to do that on foot to remain stealthy, which takes a fuckload of time. Unless, of course, they put in flying scouts, but demons can be tracked by radar since we can aim radar-guided missiles at them with no problem. They put in vehicles, that's gonna get them noticed a lot sooner. They send in a mind-disguised infiltrator first? They get fucked the minute someone spots them on security monitors which, y'know, secure military bases have.

Then they have to locate the hardened underground storage facility on the base and then breach the doors without being noticed by anyone. Which would be impossible given the level of surveillance each one has. And you can't mind-fuck your way in because the guards are under orders to shoot anybody not cleared to enter the facility from the Base CO. (Excluding the fact there would have to be a relevant cause to crack open the facility for nuclear weapon use. You can't just go, "I need to check on the nukes")

[impatrick4life]

And, again, these commando strikes assume that demons can port in with absolute precision when they have show an ability to do that only when they have an anchor Earth side. What, there's a nephilim conveniently located within each of all the numerous bases the nuclear stockpiles of plane-mounted nukes are kept? They have to put them around the general area first, find the damn base, then portal in the commando team. They have to do that on foot to remain stealthy, which takes a fuckload of time. Unless, of course, they put in flying scouts, but demons can be tracked by radar since we can aim radar-guided missiles at them with no problem. They put in vehicles, that's gonna get them noticed a lot sooner. They send in a mind-disguised infiltrator first? They get fucked the minute someone spots them on security monitors which, y'know, secure military bases have.

Then they have to locate the hardened underground storage facility on the base and then breach the doors without being noticed by anyone. Which would be impossible given the level of surveillance each one has. And you can mind-fuck your way in because the guards are under orders to shoot anybody not cleared to enter the facility from the Base CO. (Excluding the fact there would have to be a relevant cause to crack open the facility for nuclear weapon use. You can't just go, "I need to check on the nukes")

Remind me again why they'd have to go stealth? Coordinate simultaneous strikes all over the place; they certainly have the manpower to do it.

[Sea Skimmer]

Plans based on the assumption of perfect intelligence, perfect planning, perfect coordination and complete success, on a scale of thousands of distinct targets no less, tend to be very bad plans. Meanwhile such a plan would cause the humans to use the nukes they still have as quickly as they can, ending the story in a rather boring volley of fireballs. You do no attack nuclear weapons facilities unless you intend to wage nuclear war. Even the warheads on a single SSBN are enough to win the war, so what would the damn point of the demons attacking ICBM silos be? It just forces use of nukes.

More importantly, giving the demons WW2 technology would completely invalidate the story concept, and such demons would not rush headlong into war with humans in the first place because they would understand the mismatch they are about to face. The whole point was bronze age demons had no conception of what they were going to fight until humans were nearly finished killing them all.

[GrayAnderson]

<snip>

I'm going to keep my response as short as I can: First of all, I don't assert that they could make off with all of humanity's nuclear arsenal. Too many countries involved, too many sites, etc. A coordinated strike isn't going to get everything.

With that said, I think they can realistically neutralize a number of silos on a short-term basis, and they can probably make off with at least a few of the B61s. If they're lucky, they pull this off while the bases are still a mess (command-wise) from The Message and a fair portion of the guys are down. Also do remember that small arms fire doesn't do nearly as much to Baldricks as it does to a normal human. Enough shots will still take one down, and we've got plenty of weapons that can put "enough" in the air, but there's still the matter of organizing that defense. Even if they're not lucky in that regard, a couple of the raids are still going to do a good job of trashing the place before we clean them out, and some of them will make it out with their target materials acquired.

And actually, let's assume that they have only basic "New York Times" intelligence: They make it out with the missile silos disabled and some of the B61s. They're now sitting on a bunch of uranium and missile parts that they don't know what to do with in the short term (and probably have an amusing trial-and-error incident somewhere along the line that results in somewhere in Hell being blown to Hell). They also assume that they've severely damaged (albeit probably not completely and permanently disabled) our nuclear capabilities. This is a nasty under-estimation, though it's probably going to take a mushroom cloud to get this point across.

Let's ask another question: We know that the Hellmouth in the Middle East was big. How tall was it? i.e. Roughly what were the dimensions (X and Y only; Z was "0").

By the way, within the story concept something like this could work if you allow for one thing: They know there's a mismatch but stupidly assume that they can pull off some raids to throw the balance back in line with what "should" be. In other words, they're smart enough to know that we have a bunch of shiny toys but not enough to know how to actually neutralize them. They think it just involves knocking over a few bases or something. In essence, they know there's a disparity but they simply don't get the scale of it.

[Night_stalker]

Let me get this straight: He honestly thinks that he can have Baldricks plan and execute a attack on thousands of silos, all of which are guarded against possible attacks like that, and pull it off without a single hitch? Not to mention that if they hit while the missles are being fueled, and the Baldricks just rip the tubes connecting the missles to the silo, well Staurt would be the better expert on this but last I checked, solid rocket fuel isn't known for being safe to have exposure to.

Lets also not forget that in the unlikely event that the Baldricks actually get a nuclear weapon, they have to figure out how to reprogram the inertial navigational systme to accept a new target, then they have to figure out how to fuel it successfully, then launch it. All with only WW2 tech, and a couple huamn scientists. Ohh, and lets not forget that while they are busy messing around inside the missile, they avoid accidentally detonating the warhead (or warheads depending on the missile).

[Sea Skimmer]

And actually, let's assume that they have only basic "New York Times" intelligence: They make it out with the missile silos disabled and some of the B61s. They're now sitting on a bunch of uranium and missile parts that they don't know what to do with in the short term (and probably have an amusing trial-and-error incident somewhere along the line that results in somewhere in Hell being blown to Hell). They also assume that they've severely damaged (albeit probably not completely and permanently disabled) our nuclear capabilities. This is a nasty under-estimation, though it's probably going to take a mushroom cloud to get this point across.

It wont be one mushroom cloud, we'd blow them off the face of hell. The story would be over with total human victory in chapter 2, and it would be a very pointless story.

Let's ask another question: We know that the Hellmouth in the Middle East was big. How tall was it? i.e. Roughly what were the dimensions (X and Y only; Z was "0").

It was big enough for F-111s to fly through, but not big enough that tanks could drive through at the same time A-10s (or was it Su-25s?) were towed through. F-111 max wingspan is 63 feet, an A-10 is 57 feet, an M1 tank is about 12 feet wide. So that would suggest the portal is at least in the range of 75 feet wide, but likely much less then 100 feet wide.

By the way, within the story concept something like this could work if you allow for one thing: They know there's a mismatch but stupidly assume that they can pull off some raids to throw the balance back in line with what "should" be. In other words, they're smart enough to know that we have a bunch of shiny toys but not enough to know how to actually neutralize them. They think it just involves knocking over a few bases or something. In essence, they know there's a disparity but they simply don't get the scale of it.

That really wouldn't change the fact that earth is going to nuke anyone who steals nukes. All the more so if they are a nation state of giant evil monsters who can appear at random. Once nukes are used, they'll keep being used and everything ends quickly.

[iidave]

There are sea-based Baldricks (remember the Herald killed by the Brit sub?). In fact, one of the lords, I forget which, had a legion almost entirely composed of "krakens." Although they would have to be totally true to legend (and very lucky) in order for the Baldricks to capture an SLBM (i.e. bringing an SSBM to the surface, where a Harpy/Gorgon could summon a portal for ground-based Baldricks to board), they could probably sink the sub without much of a problem if they came in numbers.

Submarines have a nasty habit of not staying in the same place for very long. Baldricks would have to get a sub's exact location somehow. Much more difficult than figuring out where a silo/armoury/AFB is and sending a strike team there.

If, say, U235 was present in the exact same amounts at the beginning of that universe as it was at the beginning of ours...

There was virtually no U-235 in our universe at the beginning. Heavy elements are created in cores of massive stars and released when they go supernova. Therefore the older a universe is, the more heavy elements will be in it. Of course Hell-universe doesn't have to play by the rules we know.

What, there's a nephilim conveniently located within each of all the numerous bases the nuclear stockpiles of plane-mounted nukes are kept?

A mind-controlled Nephelim gets into a car drives to an AF base and just as he is being apprehended by the guards, Baldrick commandos portal to his location.

...how they even get to know EXCATLY the location of EVERY SINGLE ONE of humanity's nuclear arsenal to disable it all on one strike

They wouldn't get EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE. But they would certainly try. If Baldricks had two brain cells to rub together they would try to hit as many military installations at once, while the element of surprise is on their side. Those suspected of housing nuclear weapons would be at the top of their list. The entire operation depends upon having enough Nephelim to send one to every base that is being hit and coordinating them all to arrive on the same time (give or take a few hours).

[Stuart]

There's another point which people have missed on this. Military machines reflect the society they come from. The armies of WW2 reflected an industrialized, scientific society. Such a society could not survive in the cultural and social environment that existed in Hell. Society and military machine would be so conflicted on so many levels that they simply could not co-exist. For example, take the proposed commando raids on missile installations. To undertake raids like that, one needs to have commanders who have a very high level of initiative, who can think for themselves, make their own decisions and change plans accordingly. I cannot think of a greater danger to Satan's rule than having commanders like that around. Put yourself into the shoes of Axlepanforexaltheos, daemonic commander of a task group assigned to a nuclear weapons capture mission.

"Right, so we've got our nuke. It was a hard fight boys, but we got it. Now, lets take it back to our master Satan and give it to him so he can send us on another suicidal mission. Or . . . ." Lightbulb goes on over head. "We could, you know, deliver it to him, and take over after the echoes of the bang fade away and while well-grilled Satanic chops and rump steaks are stll descending all over Hell."

There is a reason why "special forces" are a relatively modern conception.

Modern industry works the same way. It's reliant on having workers with skill, initiative and a marked level of independence. If we look at social history for the last two centuries, all successful societies have devolved power downwards. By its very definition, the Daemonic society in Hell cannot do that. (Turning that argument on its head for a moment, note how societies that do not intend to devolve power downwards regressed to the equivalent of an earlier timezone. Kampuchea for example). Industrializing Hell (and to industrialize to the point of being able to take Earth on would mean industrializing ALL of Hell) would mean converting the whole of their society to something that approximates ours. Satanic absolute power could not survive in that environment. The only way a society such as that described in Hell could survive would be for it to be static and stagnant.

Originally, I adopted a Bronze Age Hell with armies to match because that was what the mythology said and that was what the fundies said was literally true. It was later after I started working out the dynamics of the society I realized that a static, stagnant society was inevitable. It couldn't be any other way because if it was, they'd be us, not daemonic. Then I kicked myself hard because I realized something else; it had to be a static society because that was the kind of society the people who dreamed it up lived in. They couldn't conceive of a society that wasn't static.

[impatrick4life]

You're 100% right on that, Stuart, except that the idea of "a few good men" has been around for millennia. The Iliad, for example, with the handpicked squad that went in on the horse, provides an early example.

You make good points, though. Honestly, I don't see how they got far enough to develop tridents.

[Seggybop]

Plans based on the assumption of perfect intelligence, perfect planning, perfect coordination and complete success, on a scale of thousands of distinct targets no less, tend to be very bad plans. Meanwhile such a plan would cause the humans to use the nukes they still have as quickly as they can, ending the story in a rather boring volley of fireballs. You do no attack nuclear weapons facilities unless you intend to wage nuclear war. Even the warheads on a single SSBN are enough to win the war, so what would the damn point of the demons attacking ICBM silos be? It just forces use of nukes.

This is a scenario where the humans don't have any idea what they're up against yet-- there's no giant permanent hellmouth for them to analyze or invade through. They can execute hit and run attacks with impunity; we would be in an even worse spot than we were with Heaven due to the lack of any understanding of portal technology and no stable examples to examine.

Did anyone even say that they'd be able to disable /the entirety/ of the nuclear arsenal? It's one (important) target out of many, which cumulatively could disable our ability to fight if we can't find a way to stop them.

More importantly, giving the demons WW2 technology would completely invalidate the story concept, and such demons would not rush headlong into war with humans in the first place because they would understand the mismatch they are about to face. The whole point was bronze age demons had no conception of what they were going to fight until humans were nearly finished killing them all.

We know this; it's only tangential speculation on what would happen if the demons had a different character than is presented in the story.

[Simon_Jester]

...For example, take the proposed commando raids on missile installations. To undertake raids like that, one needs to have commanders who have a very high level of initiative, who can think for themselves, make their own decisions and change plans accordingly. I cannot think of a greater danger to Satan's rule than having commanders like that around. Put yourself into the shoes of Axlepanforexaltheos, daemonic commander of a task group assigned to a nuclear weapons capture mission.

Stuart, I have to ask:

Where do you get these names?

"Right, so we've got our nuke. It was a hard fight boys, but we got it. Now, lets take it back to our master Satan and give it to him so he can send us on another suicidal mission. Or . . . ." Lightbulb goes on over head. "We could, you know, deliver it to him, and take over after the echoes of the bang fade away and while well-grilled Satanic chops and rump steaks are stll descending all over Hell."

There is a reason why "special forces" are a relatively modern conception.

Hah. Because, if I understand the argument properly, you need a coup-resistant state, one where the government is more than just one dictator and his personal guard. That way, even if a special forces unit went rogue and tried to stage a coup, and even if (against all odds) they succeeded, no one's going to listen to them because they're paying more attention to the legitimate Secretary of This/Secretary of That succession than to the guys who captured the White House.

Which reminds me of something I heard repeated, when a guy was talking about a 1960s radical group in the US that was sitting around someone's living room plotting revolution. The speaker was the... call him the designated sober guy, as I recall it.

Loony: "So what we do is, we march on Washington in force! Ten thousand of us!"
Sobersides: "What then?"
Loony: "We seize the Pentagon!"
Sobersides: "Yeah, really? What do we do then?"
Loony: "Issue orders!"
Sobersides: "Who would listen?"

So thinking about it, I see what you mean. To have a modern-style army with low level initiative and elite units suited to independent action like this, you need a system where the machinery of the state will respond to the organization (which no one can overthrow in a coup), not to an individual (who can be overthrown easily enough by disaffected army units).

Historically, the closest to this kind of daring, ambitious operation that we see in premodern society was generally carried out by the elite- the nobility and their personal retainers, people who were tightly woven into the existing power structure. And that may be in part because you don't get to run a pre-modern society without the backing of its best troops... and partly because the people most loyal to you are the only ones you can trust to work independently when they're not under your eye.

[impatrick4life]

If the Baldricks had advanced to the point of, say, having bolt-action rifles, hypothetically, and were smart enough to do hit-and-runs, it would be GG for humanity. It wouldn't matter if we had Star Trek: TNG-level techology, even. If we're powerless to hit back, then firepower is useless. It'd be the fight against the Viet Cong, times infinity.

I don't think people here fully grasp the *huge* advantage of having portals and living in another dimension. It makes you untouchable. Think about the incident at the mall, but kick it up by a crap-ton. And remember, no counterattacks.

[yaque]

That's precisely what happened with the anti-Gorbachev (attempted) coup in 1990 that eventually led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union six months later.
The coup ringleaders thought they could simply occupy the Kremlin and give orders,
but almost nobody listened!

Fascinating period. The USSR was changing from a Czar led empire to something like a modern "coup-resistant" state.
The coup happened about in the middle of the process, resulting in some very strange symptoms.
(IIRC, while the ringleaders were getting drunk in Gorbachev's offices, a junior officer was coordinating the resistance a few doors down the hall)

"The bastards changed the rules and didn't tell me", like Spiro Agnew is supposed to have said.

[iidave]

Stuart you're making some very good points. Allow me to respond with these counterpoints:
Nazi Germany, Soviet Union (before Gorbachev), North Korea

[GrayAnderson]

...For example, take the proposed commando raids on missile installations. To undertake raids like that, one needs to have commanders who have a very high level of initiative, who can think for themselves, make their own decisions and change plans accordingly. I cannot think of a greater danger to Satan's rule than having commanders like that around. Put yourself into the shoes of Axlepanforexaltheos, daemonic commander of a task group assigned to a nuclear weapons capture mission.

Stuart, I have to ask:

Where do you get these names?

Ditto! You can spew them out and make them work. How?

"Right, so we've got our nuke. It was a hard fight boys, but we got it. Now, lets take it back to our master Satan and give it to him so he can send us on another suicidal mission. Or . . . ." Lightbulb goes on over head. "We could, you know, deliver it to him, and take over after the echoes of the bang fade away and while well-grilled Satanic chops and rump steaks are stll descending all over Hell."

There is a reason why "special forces" are a relatively modern conception.

Hah. Because, if I understand the argument properly, you need a coup-resistant state, one where the government is more than just one dictator and his personal guard. That way, even if a special forces unit went rogue and tried to stage a coup, and even if (against all odds) they succeeded, no one's going to listen to them because they're paying more attention to the legitimate Secretary of This/Secretary of That succession than to the guys who captured the White House.

Which reminds me of something I heard repeated, when a guy was talking about a 1960s radical group in the US that was sitting around someone's living room plotting revolution. The speaker was the... call him the designated sober guy, as I recall it.

Loony: "So what we do is, we march on Washington in force! Ten thousand of us!"
Sobersides: "What then?"
Loony: "We seize the Pentagon!"
Sobersides: "Yeah, really? What do we do then?"
Loony: "Issue orders!"
Sobersides: "Who would listen?"

So thinking about it, I see what you mean. To have a modern-style army with low level initiative and elite units suited to independent action like this, you need a system where the machinery of the state will respond to the organization (which no one can overthrow in a coup), not to an individual (who can be overthrown easily enough by disaffected army units).

Historically, the closest to this kind of daring, ambitious operation that we see in premodern society was generally carried out by the elite- the nobility and their personal retainers, people who were tightly woven into the existing power structure. And that may be in part because you don't get to run a pre-modern society without the backing of its best troops... and partly because the people most loyal to you are the only ones you can trust to work independently when they're not under your eye.

Well, the key here is that if the forces of Hell are dealing with even a basic through-the-media knowledge of society that probably fails to effectively convey just how damaging weapons can be (Stuart, your writing gets this across far better than anything I tend to encounter in the world at large...and I'll admit that there's a lot I still don't get), they're going to "get" that they need to go after these shiny toys that go "boom". So some sort of mission to do this is almost assuredly going to be on the agenda...and there probably are one or two teams that are tied closely enough to Satan that they'd either see that they couldn't rule effectively (sometimes simply displacing the monarch didn't cut it) or have no desire to/see themselves as ill-suited to that role (such aides did exist in pre-modern societies; most monarchs of a decent-sized kingdom would at least have a trusted aide or vizer of some sort).

Actually, truth be told you could get an interesting story out of this: Send 2-3 teams out to raid what are deemed to be "key bases" (they take the assumption that while we don't have these weapons in one storehouse, we've probably only got a couple of places that they're stored...probably one or two to a major power, so assume they go after one base in Russia, one in the US, and one in the UK). They come back, and one team goes rogue. The humans won't even have to do much to defeat Hell, especially if the loss is limited to a relatively weak (and obviously clumsily-used) arsenal that we can strike back with. They'll make a mess of their own infrastructure, as weak as it is to begin with...I'm imagining someone trying the Trojan Horse trick with a 20-kt bomb inside.

Edit: Do consider that even if a coup attempt is pulled, you'd get four possible reactions from every unit of forces:
1) Side with the new ruler.
2) Attempt to displace the new ruler (most likely the "loyalists" who also have weapons).
3) Attempt to break off and do your own thing (possibly trying to steal weapons; one thing is abundantly clear: In Hell, nobody even came close to the thought of using portals to Earth or another world to cut communication times, let alone for a military operation).
4) Hit the dirt and let everyone else bicker it out, and then loudly side with the winner.

In short, coup attempts will probably lead to a (radioactively) hot time in the old town tonight.