Europa Universalis?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

So, the Steam sale of the day includes some EU titles, but not being a huge fan of grand strategy games I never paid them more than passing attention before. I've played a little of the original Hearts of Iron, but other than that I wouldn't even know where to begin to judge whether EU is good or not. However, I really like the time period and setting of EU, and it's on sale, so it's got me a bit curious.

Thoughts? Is EUIII "Complete" worth it? What about the additional expansion (grr)? The Rome spinoff?

[Spoonist]

If you don't like grand strategy games then, nope it wont be worth it for you.

Now if its on sale for lets say five bucks or less, then sure go ahead and try it out. But be prepared to spend at least 4-5 hours just to grasp the basics.

Now don't go near Rome at all. There are very few paradox fanboys who liked it at all and all of them where a bit strange. To the rest of us it was just weird in that it tried to make a mix of Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis and fucking up transfering what was playable in both of them.

[StarshipTitanic]

Nah, it's not worth it. The AI is simply not up to the task of challenging the player unless it has an enormous tech advantage. Except at sea, which the AI does not understand whatsoever despite the game being set during age of maritime discovery... Mastering the game basics gives the illusion of difficulty.

Expect things like...

• Massive, Mongol-style cavalry hordes remaining competitive for most of the game. At least during the part of the game when the AI offers anything more than token resistance.
• Portugal colonizing most of North America because it's closer to the Azores and thus within range earlier than Brazil due to game mechanics. Castille might join in half-heartedly but it will probably conquer West Africa instead.
• The Ottoman Empire never expanding because they get in game mechanics trouble if they attack fellow Muslims.
• The European powers allowing France to run rampant (and they do) because the AI doesn't understand how to build coalitions. If you start in 1399, France should own the Low Countries and much of Italy by 1500. They will then slowly conquer Germany for the rest of the game. If you can beat them once, then you've basically won at that point because there is no challenge greater than stopping France.
• The Golden Horde wreaking Russia before imploding, so there's no Russian expansion into Asia.

The additional expansion did the most to truly separate EUIII from EUII only to miss the point with the additions. They added a more complex Holy Roman Empire system only to have that system tend towards a consolidation of the empire rather than a historical breakup. They added motivations behind casus belli with various consequences (holy war on heathens or excommunicated Catholics means more prestige and fewer penalties from expanding while border disputes penalize expansion beyond certain border provinces, etc.) but the AI is either frightened off from expanding at all or it doesn't care and collapses under its own weight after overextending itself. The overextension usually happens on the border of the Christian and Muslim world where it's easy to fight thanks to holy war. Of course this means little to you since you've never played but it might be useful for others.

The multiplayer community is full of douches and mostly based in Europe. You may never actually find this out for yourself because the game is notoriously unstable.

[Archaic`]

EU III, and all Paradox games for that matter, are really made by the mods that come out for them. Playing those mods with a Steam version of the games can be quite awkward, so normally I'd recommend against getting it there for that reason alone. While StarshipTitanic's points are all quite valid for the vanilla version, those issues are largely taken care of with the any of the three major mods (Magna Mundi, MEIOU, or Sacra Romanum Imperium). If you're willing to do a little fiddling to get those working on the steam version, then I'd say it's well worth your cash, assuming that you do like these kinds of grand strategy games.

[Tritio]

Don't touch EU: Rome, and definitely look at the mods for EU3. If you're going to get EU3 at all, do get the expansions (which means get EU3: Complete). Give the demo a try.

[KlavoHunter]

EU3 Complete, plus Heir To The Throne, the latter of which I just got to pick up for ubercheap.

Plus the latest version of Magna Mundi.... I need to sit down for an Ottoman game now

[StarshipTitanic]

EU III, and all Paradox games for that matter, are really made by the mods that come out for them. Playing those mods with a Steam version of the games can be quite awkward, so normally I'd recommend against getting it there for that reason alone. While StarshipTitanic's points are all quite valid for the vanilla version, those issues are largely taken care of with the any of the three major mods (Magna Mundi, MEIOU, or Sacra Romanum Imperium). If you're willing to do a little fiddling to get those working on the steam version, then I'd say it's well worth your cash, assuming that you do like these kinds of grand strategy games.

My issue with EUIII mods (other than how they make the game run much slower on my computer) is how they tried to add depth to a game that is designed to be abstract. Your country's political "stability" is represented by a single value that can range between -3 to +3, for example. This results in a plethora of choices that add a superficial layer of flavor but ultimately end in a very short list of possible results. Your heir dies, -1 stability. You're too close to the Jews and the nobles revolt, -2 stability. A pig farts, -3 stability. Then the mod forces you to claw your way back up only to cripple you again. This they call "realism" but I think it's just boring. Some Paradox fans can stand sitting for hours waiting for the planets to align so then can grab a handful of provinces, but I can't.

Oh right, the game doesn't have good hotkeys and you can't map your own so you click click click click...

And one niggling detail that always bothered me was how Paradox was too lazy to model the switch from Julian to Gregorian calendars.