Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Stark wrote:No it isn't; your point is that SW is lesser because it's not OMG TEH HARD SCIFZ WE MADE UP. That's irrelevant to the vs. Obviously hyperdrive works; would an AI with absolutely no experience with any remotely familiar phenomena be equipped to deal with it, and is the history of the Mandalorians relevant here?

And yeah sorry every time you say 'if it is possible the AI will have it by magic', everyone on this entire site laughs at you.

I'm really curious to know if everyone involved in OA is as fat as you are, though. :lol:
No it is not, but feel free to go on believing that. I don't know why the idea of OA being harder sci-fi then SW gets your panties in a bunch, because I've certainly never said that makes it better.

Also whatever issues my bring to the table here must involve magic because I've never said anything about that either. What I have said is the hyper-minds in OA could almost certainly reverse engineer SW hyperdrives before the Empire is able to crush them, and once they do the other advantages of the OA universe gives them the win. Because lets face it the tech base is SW is criminally under utilized.

And for bonus points I'll be really impressed if you can put together a reply that does not involve an insult.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Stark »

Sigh.

Like I said, every time you bust out the AI-supersmart-no-limits everyone laughs at how fucking stupid you are. Hilariously, the OA could probably be significantly damaged in a day or two, but I'm sure 'automatic knowledge of everything' magic will see them around that somehow. :lol:
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Norade »

Mobius IO wrote:
Stark wrote:No it isn't; your point is that SW is lesser because it's not OMG TEH HARD SCIFZ WE MADE UP. That's irrelevant to the vs. Obviously hyperdrive works; would an AI with absolutely no experience with any remotely familiar phenomena be equipped to deal with it, and is the history of the Mandalorians relevant here?

And yeah sorry every time you say 'if it is possible the AI will have it by magic', everyone on this entire site laughs at you.

I'm really curious to know if everyone involved in OA is as fat as you are, though. :lol:
No it is not, but feel free to go on believing that. I don't know why the idea of OA being harder sci-fi then SW gets your panties in a bunch, because I've certainly never said that makes it better.

Also whatever issues my bring to the table here must involve magic because I've never said anything about that either. What I have said is the hyper-minds in OA could almost certainly reverse engineer SW hyperdrives before the Empire is able to crush them, and once they do the other advantages of the OA universe gives them the win. Because lets face it the tech base is SW is criminally under utilized.

And for bonus points I'll be really impressed if you can put together a reply that does not involve an insult.
I think I'll start with an isult saying that even Avianflutard put more effort in than you do.

Except that OA isn't any harder than SW as it's ideas are still half baked nonsense that has no backing in any real science. I can just as easily say the idea of magic energy shields, hypermatter, and hyperspace aren't impossible therefore Star Wars is now hard sci-fi.

As for reverse engineering hyper drive, might I ask how. Assuming they never take an intact example all they have to go with is there is a flash of light and a ship shows up. How do they work out anything besides, hey they have FTL from that?

Lastly, bonus points from you, that would be like a retard giving me an A+ and a gold star.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Serafina »

Even IF they take an intact example - they have no idea of measuring what it does. They don't even know what hyperspace is, they don't even have theoretical knowledge of it.
Reverse engineering something where you don't even have theoretical knowledge of and no way to measure it's functions is like reverse engineering a rocket while you have no concepts of thermodynamics of ways to measure energy output!
In other words - it's absolutely impossible no matter how smart you are. Perhaps with centuries of experiments, but even that is questionable.

And remember that while you do that, most of your smartest AIs are getting blown up since they can strike anywhere they want, at any time and with any numbers - and you can't catch them.

We know that there are limits to OA-technology, and even if we didn't there are always limits.
They can't mine black holes directly and only god-grade AIs can figure out their better tech - for lower AIs it'S impossible, hence a harsh limit even for superintelligent beings. What says that SW-technology is not likewise more advanced and incomprehensible? Where it does come from is irrelevant, what it does matters.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Sigh.

Like I said, every time you bust out the AI-supersmart-no-limits everyone laughs at how fucking stupid you are. Hilariously, the OA could probably be significantly damaged in a day or two, but I'm sure 'automatic knowledge of everything' magic will see them around that somehow. :lol:
I never said they had no limits, I did say they are compared to what we see in SW hyper-smart.

You're falling into the same thinking you are accusing me of. According to the OA website there are just short of a billion (966,100,160) star in the Terragen bubble. Even assuming the Empire somehow knew the rough limits of OA space that is still a massive number of systems that need to be scouted before any sort of effective attack can be launched and that is going to take time.

Also as I pointed out unless the Empire is given magic knowledge of the OA universe they will almost certainly start by prioritizing the infrastructure needed to support humanoid life because even during the clone wars the droid army was an extension of a humanoid civilization.

Scattered among just under a billion star systems you have:

"at least 10,000" t4 minds consisting of "...either distributed nodes connected at interplanetary scales, or concentrated in a single moon, jupiter, or dyson brain."

"around 500" t5 minds made up of "many separate transapientech ISO nodes (moon-, jupiter, and matrioshka-brains) connected at interplanetary and (if using wormholes) interstellar scales."

"Perhaps 15 ruling the Sephirotics" the t6 six minds which are "ISO nodes, moonbrains, jupiterbrains, and matrioshka brains) connected into wormhole-brains across interstellar distances to make a coherent whole."

I will grant that t3 minds and bellow are likely hopelessly outclassed by the superior numbers and speed of the Empire although they may be able to effect holding actions and insurgencies in some systems.

It is important to to note that the t5 minds (can be) and the t6 minds (are always) distributed across interstellar distances and can survive the loss of one or more nodes.

So the empire has to scout a billions worlds, realize that their real targets are not found on habitable worlds but can exist anywhere there is energy, destroy one by on objects ranging from the size of moons (easy), to gas giants (much harder), to dyson spheres (the matrioshka nodes). All of that is going to take a lot longer then a day or two.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Norade wrote:
I think I'll start with an isult saying that even Avianflutard put more effort in than you do.

Except that OA isn't any harder than SW as it's ideas are still half baked nonsense that has no backing in any real science. I can just as easily say the idea of magic energy shields, hypermatter, and hyperspace aren't impossible therefore Star Wars is now hard sci-fi.

As for reverse engineering hyper drive, might I ask how. Assuming they never take an intact example all they have to go with is there is a flash of light and a ship shows up. How do they work out anything besides, hey they have FTL from that?

Lastly, bonus points from you, that would be like a retard giving me an A+ and a gold star.
Why the hang up of hard sci-fi? Is there some history here about that I'm unaware of? But if we're going to stay on that topic what is impossible, given what we currently know, is the FTL travel and the Force. So yes OA is harder the SW. I've never said that makes it better though...

As for reverse engineering FTL.

1) As soon as SW ships and probes start showing up they are going to learn (possibly very painfully) that the rules have changed and causality breaking FTL travel is now possible. Knowing something can be done goes a long way.

2) The effects of entering and leaving hyperspace almost certainly contain more information about the process then an undifferentiated flash of light. So that would help narrow down the possible paths to engineering it.

3) The probes have some version of an FTL drive eve if it is one way. Again useful information can be extracted from them.

4) It seems likely to me that a working example would fall into their hands sooner or later. The Empire is going to have to send out A LOT of vessels and hyperdrives are not exactly uncommon in SW. There are all sorts of possible infiltration routs especially given the nano-tech capabilities of OA.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Serafina »

I never said they had no limits, I did say they are compared to what we see in SW hyper-smart.
So what?
Their technology still stucks compared to SW-technology, at least as far as warfare goes.

You're falling into the same thinking you are accusing me of. According to the OA website there are just short of a billion (966,100,160) star in the Terragen bubble. Even assuming the Empire somehow knew the rough limits of OA space that is still a massive number of systems that need to be scouted before any sort of effective attack can be launched and that is going to take time.

Also as I pointed out unless the Empire is given magic knowledge of the OA universe they will almost certainly start by prioritizing the infrastructure needed to support humanoid life because even during the clone wars the droid army was an extension of a humanoid civilization.
:roll: *yawn*
Yeah, yeah, that might be their initial reaction - until they notice that
-these targets are completely irrelevant to the enemies war effort
-that the actual enemies are the AIs.
And given the distinctive nature of the AIs (massive installations), they are easy to find.
Scattered among just under a billion star systems you have:

"at least 10,000" t4 minds consisting of "...either distributed nodes connected at interplanetary scales, or concentrated in a single moon, jupiter, or dyson brain."

"around 500" t5 minds made up of "many separate transapientech ISO nodes (moon-, jupiter, and matrioshka-brains) connected at interplanetary and (if using wormholes) interstellar scales."

"Perhaps 15 ruling the Sephirotics" the t6 six minds which are "ISO nodes, moonbrains, jupiterbrains, and matrioshka brains) connected into wormhole-brains across interstellar distances to make a coherent whole."
So, what's their respective warfare capability?
Because even their best tech sucks commpared to SW, and if they have only 15 entities that can produce it the war will be even shorter than i thought.
It is important to to note that the t5 minds (can be) and the t6 minds (are always) distributed across interstellar distances and can survive the loss of one or more nodes.
:roll:
Look, they can still be damaged. They still get disrupted. They can still be blown up.
Your side depends on a mere 15 entities. Hardly impressive.
So the empire has to scout a billions worlds, realize that their real targets are not found on habitable worlds but can exist anywhere there is energy, destroy one by on objects ranging from the size of moons (easy), to gas giants (much harder), to dyson spheres (the matrioshka nodes). All of that is going to take a lot longer then a day or two.
Easy, just send out a lot of probe droids or use, you know, telescopes. They can track their own galaxy in real time (seen in AotC), should be usable on other galaxies as well with a bit of effort.
Easy - as soon as they notice that the biological targets are even more of a joke than the rest. Besides, they don't have to make that distinction - the AIs are basically giant structures, that those are valuable targets is obvious.
And all these targets are BIG. Which is good, because that makes them easy to find and identify.

A day or two? Well, perhaps a week.
Initial scouting: 2 days to launch millions of probes, including travel time.
Attack on the obvious targets. Already includes some AIs. Three days, hundreds of worlds hit by small yet devastating raids.
Analyze the attacks and realize what the valuable targets are, while attacks continue: 2 more days.

And in a week, your side can do squat. Since the lack FTL, you'll travel at most seven light days - a complete joke.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Serafina »

As for reverse engineering FTL.
Utterly impossible, you ignore the raised points that say so.
1) As soon as SW ships and probes start showing up they are going to learn (possibly very painfully) that the rules have changed and causality breaking FTL travel is now possible. Knowing something can be done goes a long way.
:roll: SW-FTL doesn't violate causality.
And now they know that it is possible - do they have any idea where to start their research? Humanity knew that flight was possible for thousands of years (or millions) - did that give us the ability to fly?
2) The effects of entering and leaving hyperspace almost certainly contain more information about the process then an undifferentiated flash of light. So that would help narrow down the possible paths to engineering it.
:roll: You can only measure things you have instruments for. You can only measure the flash of light. You have NO way to measure what happens in hyperspace.
3) The probes have some version of an FTL drive eve if it is one way. Again useful information can be extracted from them.
From a burnt-out drive? Hardly.
4) It seems likely to me that a working example would fall into their hands sooner or later. The Empire is going to have to send out A LOT of vessels and hyperdrives are not exactly uncommon in SW. There are all sorts of possible infiltration routs especially given the nano-tech capabilities of OA.
How are they going to capture a vessel that is thousands of times stronger than their best vessels? Nanotech is useless wank against shields and hulls.
And infiltration? With what? Where? They only have STL, remember?

Even if they get their hands on a fully capable hyperdrive, how are they going to figure out how it works? How are they going to figure out how to navigate it (which is extremely complex).
The answer is of course that they can't do it within any reasonable amount of time - they'll be dead by then.
And infiltration? With STL-drives? You would take millenia to get to notable SW-worlds, if
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Serafina wrote:Even IF they take an intact example - they have no idea of measuring what it does. They don't even know what hyperspace is, they don't even have theoretical knowledge of it.
Reverse engineering something where you don't even have theoretical knowledge of and no way to measure it's functions is like reverse engineering a rocket while you have no concepts of thermodynamics of ways to measure energy output!
In other words - it's absolutely impossible no matter how smart you are. Perhaps with centuries of experiments, but even that is questionable.

And remember that while you do that, most of your smartest AIs are getting blown up since they can strike anywhere they want, at any time and with any numbers - and you can't catch them.

We know that there are limits to OA-technology, and even if we didn't there are always limits.
They can't mine black holes directly and only god-grade AIs can figure out their better tech - for lower AIs it'S impossible, hence a harsh limit even for superintelligent beings. What says that SW-technology is not likewise more advanced and incomprehensible? Where it does come from is irrelevant, what it does matters.
Knowledge of hyperspace is all over the SW universe though. In astromech droids, nav computers, anyone who pilots or maintains ftl ships knows a least a little something about it and or the drives. Also the OA minds can already make wormholes, pocket universes, and otherwise manipulate dimensions. So creating paths to and moving between dimensions is not out of the scope their existing knowledge. Why would hyperspace be so much harder to measure then the rest?

The smartest AI are going to be (at best) slowly disassemble over a long period of time. Remember they are distributed across interstellar distances and involve dyson swarms, the matrioshka nodes. The best you've been able to show is the Empire can try and blockade those.

I agree that all technology has limits. And it is reasonable to ask what they are. The reason I think the hyper-minds can reverse engineer SW FZTL tech is:
1) SW FTL tech is understandable to human level mind at least to an engineering level. If t1 minds can reproduce and modify SW FTL drives then t5 and t6 minds can as well.
2) OA displays higher of mega engineering then is normally seen is SW. This suggests to me at least a roughly comparable tech base.
3) T4 and greater minds already manipulate dimensions. Hyperspace does not exist in the OA universe so they cannot access it. Now they are moved to a place where it does exist, are given examples of it being accesses, and are able to obtain at least partially working examples of FTL drives and the engineering level knowledge that is common is SW.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Serafina wrote: So what?
Their technology still stucks compared to SW-technology, at least as far as warfare goes.
Care to back that up?
A day or two? Well, perhaps a week.
Initial scouting: 2 days to launch millions of probes, including travel time.
Attack on the obvious targets. Already includes some AIs. Three days, hundreds of worlds hit by small yet devastating raids.
Analyze the attacks and realize what the valuable targets are, while attacks continue: 2 more days.

And in a week, your side can do squat. Since the lack FTL, you'll travel at most seven light days - a complete joke.
Prove that the empire can launch millions of probes in 2 days. And while you're at it that is still 100 times to few if they burn out their hyperdrives after launch. You are massively underestimating the size of even a part of the galaxy just like you did the size of a dyson sphere/swarm.

Telescopes wouldn't who the Empire anything because the light from the OA enginnering projects would not have reached them yet... try again.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

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Knowledge of hyperspace is all over the SW universe though. In astromech droids, nav computers, anyone who pilots or maintains ftl ships knows a least a little something about it and or the drives. Also the OA minds can already make wormholes, pocket universes, and otherwise manipulate dimensions. So creating paths to and moving between dimensions is not out of the scope their existing knowledge. Why would hyperspace be so much harder to measure then the rest?
Except that hyperspace is not a dimension they know about, or have even a theoretical concept for.
The smartest AI are going to be (at best) slowly disassemble over a long period of time. Remember they are distributed across interstellar distances and involve dyson swarms, the matrioshka nodes. The best you've been able to show is the Empire can try and blockade those.
And i suppose they take no damage at all while they are damaged :roll:
Besides, it's possible that SW can take out whole nodes within minutes if they blow up the sun.
1) SW FTL tech is understandable to human level mind at least to an engineering level. If t1 minds can reproduce and modify SW FTL drives then t5 and t6 minds can as well.
:roll: :wanker:
Do they have the knowledge do to so? No? Where do they get it? No idea? Well, too bad.
2) OA displays higher of mega engineering then is normally seen is SW. This suggests to me at least a roughly comparable tech base.
In regards to building large objects, yes.
But not for weapons technology, propulsion, shields and so on.
3) T4 and greater minds already manipulate dimensions. Hyperspace does not exist in the OA universe so they cannot access it. Now they are moved to a place where it does exist, are given examples of it being accesses, and are able to obtain at least partially working examples of FTL drives and the engineering level knowledge that is common is SW.
:roll:
And i manipulate matter right now - does that mean i can do so on an arbitrary level?

Look, one of the outstanding feats of T6 minds are voidships. They are basically
-invisible
-protected by a spatial distortion
-capable of moving at high relativistic speeds
Guess what? SW ships can do all of that. They have cloaks (tough they are rarely used), they have extremely powerfull shields and they CAN move at high relativistic speeds - and even at FTL.
So what?
Their technology still stucks compared to SW-technology, at least as far as warfare goes.
Care to back that up?
No FTL, no shields - do they have petaton-range firepower? Can they blow up planets like the Death Star did? Do they have a civilian network that can send large volumes of data across the galaxy that a small droid can use? Can they track their galaxy in real time?
You have to show that they get even close to SW. So far, zilch. Nada. Nothing.
Prove that the empire can launch millions of probes in 2 days. And while you're at it that is still 100 times to few if they burn out their hyperdrives after launch. You are massively underestimating the size of even a part of the galaxy just like you did the size of a dyson sphere/swarm.
They had to do so to have any chance of finding echo base - at least several thousand droids.
Given that this was only a small task force, the whole imperial navy would logically be capable of launching much more than that.
Telescopes wouldn't who the Empire anything because the light from the OA enginnering projects would not have reached them yet... try again.
:roll:
You can still locate star systems and differentiate between potentially usefull ones. That narrows down the search.
And if you want a closer look - they have FTL-sensors.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

:roll: SW-FTL doesn't violate causality.
Yes it does, they just never explore the implications of that in the universe because (as I said before) it hand waved:
http://www.theculture.org/rich/sharpblu ... 00089.html

All arbitrary FTL travel opens up the possibility of causality violations which is why we currently think it is impossible.

At least save the eye rolling for topics you know something about.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

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Mobius IO wrote:
:roll: SW-FTL doesn't violate causality.
Yes it does, they just never explore the implications of that in the universe because (as I said before) it hand waved:
http://www.theculture.org/rich/sharpblu ... 00089.html

All arbitrary FTL travel opens up the possibility of causality violations which is why we currently think it is impossible.

At least save the eye rolling for topics you know something about.
No it doesn't in SW. We never see it, so it doesn't. Pretty straighforward.
It should according to our understanding of physics, but since it doesn't in SW...yeah.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Serafina wrote:
Mobius IO wrote:
:roll: SW-FTL doesn't violate causality.
Yes it does, they just never explore the implications of that in the universe because (as I said before) it hand waved:
http://www.theculture.org/rich/sharpblu ... 00089.html

All arbitrary FTL travel opens up the possibility of causality violations which is why we currently think it is impossible.

At least save the eye rolling for topics you know something about.
No it doesn't in SW. We never see it, so it doesn't. Pretty straighforward.
It should according to our understanding of physics, but since it doesn't in SW...yeah.
Is that the best you can come up with? In that case the implosion weapons of OA crush SW ships because they are never shown not to.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

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Mobius IO wrote:
Serafina wrote: No it doesn't in SW. We never see it, so it doesn't. Pretty straighforward.
It should according to our understanding of physics, but since it doesn't in SW...yeah.
Is that the best you can come up with? In that case the implosion weapons of OA crush SW ships because they are never shown not to.
You're a moron, did i say that already?
We see, in canonic Star Wars, that Hyperdrive does NOT VIOLATE CAUSALITY. That's a canonic SW-property.

Your argument however is stupid, because it totally ignores any possbile analysis and is therefore simple wank.
Not that that is surprising coming from you or anything.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Mobius IO »

Serafina wrote:
Mobius IO wrote:
Serafina wrote: You're a moron, did i say that already?
We see, in canonic Star Wars, that Hyperdrive does NOT VIOLATE CAUSALITY. That's a canonic SW-property.

Your argument however is stupid, because it totally ignores any possbile analysis and is therefore simple wank.
Not that that is surprising coming from you or anything.
lol That is funny coming from someone who constantly brings up things they know nothing about.

Every argument you've posted has come down to SW wank. Show me these millions of probes the Empire is ready to deploy at a moments notice. You managed to get up to "several thousand" with no indication of the logistics behind it.

Were these just what the task force had on hand or was that a significant fraction of the Empires scout force?
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

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Read the fucking main site. I do not have to repeat everything here if it takes no more effort for you to read it there.
And provide some god-damn numbers for OA - fleet numbers, ship size, weapon output, ship resilience and industrial capacity.
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SylasGaunt
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by SylasGaunt »

Is there anything really stopping the Empire from just churning out Galaxy Guns and basically bombarding OA out of existence that way without even needing to engage in ship to ship fighting?
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Serafina »

SylasGaunt wrote:Is there anything really stopping the Empire from just churning out Galaxy Guns and basically bombarding OA out of existence that way without even needing to engage in ship to ship fighting?
Pretty much not, since OA has no FTL. And reverse engineering just doesn't work that way.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Sarevok »

The Empire could crush OA like an ant. If it behaved with more than room temperature level of IQ. But the Empire is canonically retarded in many aspects. They will have to behave in out of character fashion to stomp OA easily. OA on the other hand IS certainly capable of reverse engineering SW technology given sufficient amount of samples. SW technology is easily within grasp of average person in that ordinary people could build droids or anti grav vehicles. Even the death star superlaser and hypermatter technology was designed by people not superhuman intellects. And if EU is to be believe there are many technology are invented by just one single genius by themselves (concept of vast military-industrial research complexes is lost to EU writters). There is no reason to believe why a wanktastic AI operating under same rulesets will not achieve great success in reverse engineering.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Batman »

The term that comes to mind is hogwash. As it happens I put together all my PCs but the first myself too. You won't find me building ICs anytime soon.
The average joe being able to assemble a droid, or a landspeeder, from prefabricated parts doesn't say beans about how easy the underlying technology is to figure out. Nor does Wars tech having been developed by (mostly, presumably) humans.
The atom bomb was developed by humans too. Since ancient romans were human too, they'll OBVIOUSLY be able to reverse engineer and replicate it, right?
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Ghost Rider »

Sarevok wrote:The Empire could crush OA like an ant. If it behaved with more than room temperature level of IQ. But the Empire is canonically retarded in many aspects. They will have to behave in out of character fashion to stomp OA easily. OA on the other hand IS certainly capable of reverse engineering SW technology given sufficient amount of samples. SW technology is easily within grasp of average person in that ordinary people could build droids or anti grav vehicles. Even the death star superlaser and hypermatter technology was designed by people not superhuman intellects. And if EU is to be believe there are many technology are invented by just one single genius by themselves (concept of vast military-industrial research complexes is lost to EU writters). There is no reason to believe why a wanktastic AI operating under same rulesets will not achieve great success in reverse engineering.
Just as soon as we assemble the greatest minds of the 19th century to reverse engineer a 747. I mean how hard can it be! It was made by people, in fact on the same planet! But hey defining how these super computers are going to backtrack through all the developments needed to get where the Hyperdrive is, is of course no problem. Made by men!

Are you trying to be dumb?
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by SirNitram »

Mobius IO wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Reverse engineering from an entirely different basis of science is ridiculous. You can, for example, steal a Russian rocket in the Cold War and reverse engineer that, because the engineering behind it all goes back to a common group which also educated the NATO forces, the German rocketry specialists. You can't do it when there are thousands of years of difference in engineering and science. I don't care how much you jerk off to planet-sized computers.
Of course you can. The FLT mechanisms of the Star Wars universe had to be engineered sometimes (well not really because like everything is SW it is hand waved, but lets forgo the SW wank everyone here ignores) so it can be reverse engineered.
'I'll call it 'handwaving' because I'm too pants-on-head-retarded to realize DaVinci can't build a microchip no matter how detailed the copy is you give him'.
Secondly looking at the history of technology in our world it is always easier to reverse engineer/figure out existing technology then it is to develop it the first time.
Either provide examples that prove you can reverse-engineer tech completely unrelated to yours and over 25,000 years old in it's current form. Particularly when said device is introduced by a race who thinks nothing of moving planets between star systems and arranging black-hole clusters.
Third the scope of the minds doing the (reverse) engineering has everything to do with how fast and well it can be done.
And your evidence of the scope is.. What? What do you have that makes these zomg wankfest computers better than Artoo?
Last of all the science behind the death star, hyperspace, etc is far less hard (read non-existent) then that in OA. Star Wars lacks any sort of internal consistency, just look at the Force in the clone wars cartoon vs the movies. Or the ever shifting history of the Mandalorians lol.
GUT drive. Plancktech. Gooswarms. Nanoscopic assemblers not taking aeons to build a truck. Hell, make a truck that WORKS. All this was examined years ago, asshat. I posted the link so you would learn that.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by SirNitram »

1) As soon as SW ships and probes start showing up they are going to learn (possibly very painfully) that the rules have changed and causality breaking FTL travel is now possible. Knowing something can be done goes a long way.
Well, Orion's Arm is specifically causality restrained. Which means no wormhole travel ever is faster than the light from one wormhole stop to another. Their wormhole tech specifically makes it impossible to break casuality, which means fun with lightcones! Their precious wormhole travel and comms take 3,500 years to go from one side of the Orion Spur to the other. And 10,000 years from one end to the other. OA can't violate causality.. Says so, right under the Vissier Effect. No matter what comes into the OA, their wormhole tech is unable to cope. The next strike will occour hundreds of years before the message of the first one gets there.

That's what casuality-adherence means, brat. Now sit down.
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Re: Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

Post by Serafina »

Hehe, here's an interesting tidbit from the thread Nitram linked to (wri tten by Necronlord):
Power output of a Sol type star : 3.827 E26 W

Midrange power output calc of a DS hypermatter reactor : (1 e+38 J / 86400 ) 1.157 E33 W

Thus, one DS rector is equal to 3,024,320 Dyson spheres in its energy output, and thus capability to do work (IE build starships sucka).

You were saying something bub?
And of course:
Now, without resorting the the cop out of "our equally unobtanium AIs will discover everything about this other galaxy," could someone explain to me what prevents a mass galaxy gun assault?
You know, i'm just going to gather evidence from that other thread. It's damn lazy, but why bother with actual work if you don't do any either?
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"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
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"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick

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