The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Mayabird]

A note: I split the discussion about Russian economics and moved it to N & P. It looked more fitting there and I didn't want it lost among all the pages here.

[Edward Yee]

It's not so much he's an idiot or stoned out of his gourd but things that he doesn't want to hear just don't register with him. They go in one ear and out of the other. It's a lot more common than one might think unfortunately. A typical example might go. . .

Auto-mechanic. "Sir, your transmission is completely blown, we're going to have to install a new unit. Estimated price is around two thousand bucks.

Driver. That's terrible. Did you fix the rattle in the door?'

Auto-mechanic. "Errr yes . . .. . ."

Driver "Thank you. By the way, was anything wrong with the transmission?"

I've heard that conversation.

I've had quite a few customers of certain... background who, upon hearing about my store's "+50% store credit on game trade-ins" or "buy 2 get 1 free on used games/accessories" promotions, ALWAYS wonder, "so 50% off?" or "buy 1 get 1 free?" or assume that the latter might go for new games... Admitted it's one of the reasons I'm intending to leave, I'm tired of dealing with them.

By the way Stuart, is Gen. Schwartz still USAF chief of staff as of chapter 74, or has he been moved to some other position/operational role?

Am I the only one hoping for an anticlimatic end of the Yaweh-Michael fight? Like: Hellfire Missiles fall, everybody dies?

Hell no you ain't the only one, seconded!

Cecelia5578, it's not a "formality" problem, it's his horrible timing: the photo interpreter was joking to a morose Petraeus who had just ordered the deaths (and horrible "post-initiation lives") of over a quarter-million beings, and was already facing the prospect of having to kill a LOT more... in a manner way more personal than what happened in Iraq against Abigor's army. (Remember, he's the only one mentioned to have had been given release authority.) This is a man who in a worse case scenario could become be one of the biggest mass killers in human history...

[impatrick4life]

The way I see this going down is that Petraeus launches a massive propaganda campaign with photos of Ground Zero and also estimated angelic casualty figures, then issues an ultimatum to the angelic leadership, a la Truman's ultimatum to Japan. If the angels refuse to yield, then the humans will show them their version of "yield," measured in kilo- and megatons.

[darksoul]

The way I see this going down is that Petraeus launches a massive propaganda campaign with photos of Ground Zero and also estimated angelic casualty figures, then issues an ultimatum to the angelic leadership, a la Truman's ultimatum to Japan. If the angels refuse to yield, then the humans will show them their version of "yield," measured in kilo- and megatons.

I think Petraeus is going to investigate further the stormy cloud thing, asking Lemuel or whatever, just to avoid killing everything with nukes. I mean, Nuking a city the size of a country with millions of angels and more important, millions of innocent second lifers is not a future to look forward to. Specially because now death is not a release from guilt. If he's so affected for killing a quarter million of enemies (retreating and defeated enemies, but enemies nonetheless) a country's worth of civilians is not going to be easy to take.

Once he discovers the truth behind the storms, maybe the marines can have their party at last.
As was pointed out before, heaven's a rigid society. just flip the switch in the top, and the hole christmas tree goes from red to blue without shaking so much. Michael is dangerous, very dangerous to keep in power, and not as easy to control as Abigor, but he'll do for a while... at least until Lemuel is adoctrinated properly to take over the throne

[impatrick4life]

I meant, before he ever uses nukes. I was putting the whole thing going on in the Holy of Holies aside for the moment. I was saying that Petraeus will exhaust all other options before going about with the wholesale slaughter of tens if not hundreds of millions.

[Nematocyst]

I for one expected a rock-off Yahweh to lose. Oh well, worse for him.
I also think Jesus is alive. Michael for one second believed Jesus answered the call, but then was silenced. Perhaps he's waiting for Michael to weaken himself battling Yahweh to strike at the right time?

[darksoul]

I for one expected a rock-off Yahweh to lose. Oh well, worse for him.
I also think Jesus is alive. Michael for one second believed Jesus answered the call, but then was silenced. Perhaps he's waiting for Michael to weaken himself battling Yahweh to strike at the right time?

Don't you people find interesting we all want Yahwe dead, by any means necessary, and yet we would prefer Jesus to be alive for any number of reasons? Kill the bear, feed the cub?

[impatrick4life]

Or perhaps he's tired of his deadbeat dad and flat-out will not come to his aid? Four things could happen:

1. He's dead (unlikely given the allusion).
2. He comes back and helps Yah out (unlikely given that he already declined to do so, but it could be a tactical move).
3. He waits until Michael and Yah finish, then kills the winner and takes over (possible, his dad is a moron).
4. He helps Michael out (possible, but a most unlikely option).

I could even see him, if he's alive, being severely maimed and getting treatment from the humans. Unlikely, though.

[Nematocyst]

I know I want Jesus alive so he can die a proper death that can be confirmed: we need a corpse.
Vaporisation by nuclear fire is good, but then those nagging doubts of 'what if this wasn't him? What if he wasn't here?' don't let you sleep at night.

Also, because I feel a nuclear weapon is too impersonal. Too anonymous. Someone needs to look at his face and squeeze that trigger.

[Pelranius]

I know I want Jesus alive so he can die a proper death that can be confirmed: we need a corpse.
Vaporisation by nuclear fire is good, but then those nagging doubts of 'what if this wasn't him? What if he wasn't here?' don't let you sleep at night.

But honestly, what's there to fear about him? Apart from him possibly being a Devil. He doesn't even seem to be in the same league as Uriel, since Ya ya first thought to call for Uriel, IIRC.

[impatrick4life]

I know I want Jesus alive so he can die a proper death that can be confirmed: we need a corpse.
Vaporisation by nuclear fire is good, but then those nagging doubts of 'what if this wasn't him? What if he wasn't here?' don't let you sleep at night.

But honestly, what's there to fear about him? Apart from him possibly being a Devil. He doesn't even seem to be in the same league as Uriel, since Ya ya first thought to call for Uriel, IIRC.

That's because Yahweh doesn't much care for his son anyway, and not really for any other reason other than because Uriel was apparently a more adamant yes-man than Elhmas.

[Nematocyst]

An enemy commander hostile to us is a threat.

[darksoul]

Or perhaps he's tired of his deadbeat dad and flat-out will not come to his aid? Four things could happen:

1. He's dead (unlikely given the allusion).
2. He comes back and helps Yah out (unlikely given that he already declined to do so, but it could be a tactical move).
3. He waits until Michael and Yah finish, then kills the winner and takes over (possible, his dad is a moron).
4. He helps Michael out (possible, but a most unlikely option).

I could even see him, if he's alive, being severely maimed and getting treatment from the humans. Unlikely, though.

Bah... I believe Jesus will stay in a far away retreat, writing a book about the difference between all the kinds of marihuana and the ATTGH (average time to get high) of each. Then he would get an Internet connection and start his society-critical podcast "What Would Jesus Do?"

[SilverHawk]

Then he would get an Internet connection and start his society-critical podcast "What Would Jesus Do?"

Get Baked.

[Seggybop]

I'm thinking Jesus will eventually be found as an expanding blob of cancer. Let's max out the irony levels here while we have the chance.

[Simon_Jester]

I for one expected a rock-off Yahweh to lose. Oh well, worse for him.
I also think Jesus is alive. Michael for one second believed Jesus answered the call, but then was silenced. Perhaps he's waiting for Michael to weaken himself battling Yahweh to strike at the right time?

Don't you people find interesting we all want Yahwe dead, by any means necessary, and yet we would prefer Jesus to be alive for any number of reasons? Kill the bear, feed the cub?

Well, if the bear tries to kill you and the cub doesn't, hell yes kill the bear and feed the cub.

Ehlmas, like Dagon or Euryale, is only a threat if he can't get it through his head that we can kill him at will and are watching him. Having "his" army get disintegrated like that would... probably bring him around, I think.

[declan]

Or perhaps he's tired of his deadbeat dad and flat-out will not come to his aid? Four things could happen:

There is a fifth option, some one scooped him and portaled him out before the nuke went off and he wont be back til book 3.

Declan

[bogy_shashav]

Well, Yaw-Yaw is now offically dead meat. On a side note, thanks Staurt for getting us this part so quickly, and invading this city is going to be a bitch. It's big enough to make Stalingrad look like a village, and the HEA is now primarily focused on using armor, rather than infantry. It's going to be a blood- wait, I forgot the Angels aren't a force equipped with modern weaponry, this is going to be fun.

Oh but we have the adequate infantry, its just stuck with homeguard duty. However, with Hell no longer a danger, and Heaven in complete chaos, they can be brought to the front in a matter of hours via portals. Heh - the papal division with its bishop commander...imagine that rollin' on the streets of Heaven....

[Edward Yee]

I think Petraeus is going to investigate further the stormy cloud thing, asking Lemuel or whatever, just to avoid killing everything with nukes. I mean, Nuking a city the size of a country with millions of angels and more important, millions of innocent second lifers is not a future to look forward to. Specially because now death is not a release from guilt. If he's so affected for killing a quarter million of enemies (retreating and defeated enemies, but enemies nonetheless) a country's worth of civilians is not going to be easy to take.

I'm actually trying to imagine fictional-Petraeus' reaction if somehow things got so bad that "nuke it all" somehow became his only viable option... forget "not easy to take," it's way worse than that.

I'm guessing that HEA-forced evacuations of the slums aren't viable by any stretch of the imagination or under any rationale, even to minimize loss of "innocent" civilian lives?

[JBG]

To be fair he barley registered the deaths of the rest of his "Friends"

true, but a son is not a friend... besides, those in power has no friends, they have followers and enemies. And ultimate power has blind followers, or sworn enemies. At least that's the way it seems.

Isn't there a saying along the lines of "If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog"?

That might explain the weight that Michael and Yahweh attached to his comment.

[drakensis]

It's not so much he's an idiot or stoned out of his gourd but things that he doesn't want to hear just don't register with him. They go in one ear and out of the other. It's a lot more common than one might think unfortunately. A typical example might go. . .

Auto-mechanic. "Sir, your transmission is completely blown, we're going to have to install a new unit. Estimated price is around two thousand bucks.

Driver. That's terrible. Did you fix the rattle in the door?'

Auto-mechanic. "Errr yes . . .. . ."

Driver "Thank you. By the way, was anything wrong with the transmission?"

I've heard that conversation.

I've had quite a few customers of certain... background who, upon hearing about my store's "+50% store credit on game trade-ins" or "buy 2 get 1 free on used games/accessories" promotions, ALWAYS wonder, "so 50% off?" or "buy 1 get 1 free?" or assume that the latter might go for new games... Admitted it's one of the reasons I'm intending to leave, I'm tired of dealing with them.

Seconded. Happens two or three times a day in my job. On a good day.

[MGlBlaze]

It's not so much he's an idiot or stoned out of his gourd but things that he doesn't want to hear just don't register with him. They go in one ear and out of the other. It's a lot more common than one might think unfortunately. A typical example might go. . .

Auto-mechanic. "Sir, your transmission is completely blown, we're going to have to install a new unit. Estimated price is around two thousand bucks.

Driver. That's terrible. Did you fix the rattle in the door?'

Auto-mechanic. "Errr yes . . .. . ."

Driver "Thank you. By the way, was anything wrong with the transmission?"

I've heard that conversation.

I've had quite a few customers of certain... background who, upon hearing about my store's "+50% store credit on game trade-ins" or "buy 2 get 1 free on used games/accessories" promotions, ALWAYS wonder, "so 50% off?" or "buy 1 get 1 free?" or assume that the latter might go for new games... Admitted it's one of the reasons I'm intending to leave, I'm tired of dealing with them.

Seconded. Happens two or three times a day in my job. On a good day.

Sounds like some good entries for notalwaysright.com .
This is a reason one of my favourite quotes is "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.", but like Stuart said it might be less to do with actual stupidity and more a case of 'in one ear, out the other' for things they don't want to hear.
Then again, if you ask me, doing so willingly is a mark of stupidity in itself.

[Bayonet]

I for one expected a rock-off Yahweh to lose. Oh well, worse for him.
I also think Jesus is alive. Michael for one second believed Jesus answered the call, but then was silenced. Perhaps he's waiting for Michael to weaken himself battling Yahweh to strike at the right time?

And there's still a Third Person in the Blessed Trinity, from whom we have not heard.

[MysteriousDarkLordv3]

Now that's an interesting question. Yahweh and Jesus are immensely powerful physical entities. So what the heck is the Holy Ghost? The Bible is rather obscure on this point.

Possibilities:
1) Everything mentioned in Revelations has been proven to be a tangible creature, so the Holy Ghost is also a powerful angel with special duties.
2) Or it's an office, possibly related to the demonic heralds. That might make the late Apollyon a "Holy Ghost" (excuse the wordplay).
3) The Holy Ghost might be an immaterial being that even Yahweh respects. Just who's been whispering in a certain demon's ear, giving him good advice?

That's my two cents.

[darksoul]

Now that's an interesting question. Yahweh and Jesus are immensely powerful physical entities. So what the heck is the Holy Ghost? The Bible is rather obscure on this point.

Possibilities:
1) Everything mentioned in Revelations has been proven to be a tangible creature, so the Holy Ghost is also a powerful angel with special duties.
2) Or it's an office, possibly related to the demonic heralds. That might make the late Apollyon a "Holy Ghost" (excuse the wordplay).
3) The Holy Ghost might be an immaterial being that even Yahweh respects. Just who's been whispering in a certain demon's ear, giving him good advice?

That's my two cents.

I don't know. bringing another "immensely powerful" being into play at this point, as if the story were a Japanese cartoon, is not a good idea. There's no rationale of why such a being would be held back till now, if it's under Yahwe's control, and if it's not, then It may as well not show at all. On a second thought, Maybe Uriel's actions could have presented him as the Holy Ghost besides his own image of Angel of Death, or maybe the Holy Court and its officials will fit in.
The Holy Ghost being Yahwe's Navy SEALs is another idea, but it carries the problem that they would have to be fanatically loyal to Him, and that would make them targets for Michael, so...