Galactic Empire vs Orions Arm Sephirotic Civilisations

[Imperial Overlord]

As I've said before, even if the AI can somehow reverse engineer a hyperdrive and hypermatter (without FTL sensors, which will tell you how likely that is to happen), it hasn't learned what kind of industrial infrastructure is need to actually make construction possible, let alone engineer and design such facilities that are centered around new concepts in science and engineering. If it's close enough to an operating hyperdrive to know its looking at an FTL drive, its on the short list to get slagged by the Empire it will never make it down that path.

[Stark]

Isn't that the core of singularity? If it took 10000 guys 100 years, an AI 1x10e15 intelligent would do it in seconds.

[Ford Prefect]

Just as soon as we assemble the greatest minds of the 19th century to reverse engineer a 747. I mean how hard can it be! It was made by people, in fact on the same planet! But hey defining how these super computers are going to backtrack through all the developments needed to get where the Hyperdrive is, is of course no problem. Made by men!

Are you trying to be dumb?

While I take your point, this example doesn't exactly hold the same amount of water that it might in a debate involving the Galactic Empire and, I don't know, the United Federation of Planets or the Earth Alliance. I cannot believe that I am saying something in support of Orion's Arm, but try to keep in mind that the high end intelligences can do things like build personal basement universes and tinker with fundamental properties of spacetime as a rule. I don't think it's actually all that controversial to suggest that Orion's Arm is at least as 'advanced' as Star Wars, and is fully capable of things that would make people in the Galactic Empire sit back and say 'haha, what the fuck, how did they do that?'. It's easy to write off Orion's Arm because a lot of its fans are enormous, titanic, ocean-going wankers, but come the fuck on. Obi Wan Kenobi can do maintenence on a high end hyperdrive with a space screwdriver: in universe it's obviously not a ridiculously super complex borderline magical black box technology. The idea that one of the high end AGIs couldn't take one apart and work out what makes it go is silly (getting one intact is a different matter, but that's not really relevant to my point). The things you should be focussing on are things which Orion's Arm may not necessarily be able to replicate, like hypermatter. Hypermatter is stupid, so probably could not be produced simply from examining some in its final state, and the Sephirotics won't have any real way to go and seek out hypermatter refineries to observe its creation in action. If the hyperdrive relies on totally made up materials, then you can suggest that it's unlikely that they could be reproduced. But at the same time, it's not good enough to simply assume that the hyperdrive requires these materials.

[Serafina]

They can't just rebuild a hyperdrive and stick it on their ships.

They need to build one on their own, simply because their ships are different. And because they have no hopes of producing hypermatter and therefore need other fuels. Not to mention that they have to figure out the maneuvering of the damn thing.
Problem is, they have absolutely no basis to even begin their research to do so. They don't even have theoretical concepts for it!

And assuming that you can arbitrarily scale speed with intelligence (10 times smarter, ten times faster) is simply a no-limits fallacy. They still have to perform a lot of experiments, tests etc. etc., and that all takes time. Given that hyperdrive is so extremely unknown to them, it will take a very long time to do so, especially if you are under fire the whole damn time.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

And assuming that you can arbitrarily scale speed with intelligence (10 times smarter, ten times faster) is simply a no-limits fallacy.

I agree with you on most of your points, except this. A No-Limits Fallacy, by definition, has no limits. This states quite a firm limit (10 times smarter or whatever). Just because something is wrong does not necessarily mean it is a fallacy.

It's more of a non-sequitur, really. It doesn't necessarily follow that something that is smarter than a person by a factor of 100 (for example), will perform all tasks one hundred times faster.

[Bakustra]

I cannot believe that I am saying something in support of Orion's Arm, but...

My problem with that is that the presence of easily-replaced components doesn't mean that the machine isn't complex as a whole. For that matter, the hyperdrive as a whole is much larger than what's seen in TPM (the "motivator", probably the central motor of the system as a whole); consider that according to the cross-sectional diagram of the Naboo yacht, the hyperdrive actually extends via conduits through the whole ship to "channel the effect for stability and speed" (This also happens to be pre-Saxton involvement, just so you know).

Once we get into the more detailed materials in the AOTC and ROTS cross-sections, we find that hypermatter is essential to hyperdrive operation but is also tachyonic matter, which could theoretically be found naturally in the OA galaxy (that is up to someone with better knowledge to confirm or deny). Then you have the stasis fields, without which times moves faster for the user... I think that the trio of subsystems involved and the harmony that's apparently needed to make hyperdrive as fast and useful as it is will hinder even a superintelligent AI (since there is not necessarily anything to connect the stasis fields to the hyperdrive, nor make them a particular priority unless witnessed in action) to the point that the Empire would be able to win most potential conflicts before they could achieve the speeds necessary to keep pace with regular SW ships.

In other words, while I agree with the general thrust of your statement, I think that there are still factors that hinder attempts to replicate hyperdrive enough to render the overall argument fairly accurate, if we add the necessary qualifiers.

They can't just rebuild a hyperdrive and stick it on their ships.

They need to build one on their own, simply because their ships are different. And because they have no hopes of producing hypermatter and therefore need other fuels. Not to mention that they have to figure out the maneuvering of the damn thing.
Problem is, they have absolutely no basis to even begin their research to do so. They don't even have theoretical concepts for it!

And assuming that you can arbitrarily scale speed with intelligence (10 times smarter, ten times faster) is simply a no-limits fallacy. They still have to perform a lot of experiments, tests etc. etc., and that all takes time. Given that hyperdrive is so extremely unknown to them, it will take a very long time to do so, especially if you are under fire the whole damn time.

Hypermatter is more a ballast than a fuel when it comes to the hyperdrive, according to the materials where it was introduced, and it is exotic, but not incredibly so; just tachyonic matter. The make-up may be important (extremely dense matter), but that is a limiting factor presumably for speed and fuel efficiency, based on the hints of theory in those materials. Similarly, maneuvering is also simple; you just use the exact same controls for sublight; you're just moving faster, is all. You may well be able to stick a hyperdrive into a ship and have it work, but it will slower and less safe/"stable", according to the TPM Incredible Cross-Sections.

Note to Mobius IO:

These same materials (the AOTC and ROTS Incredible Cross-Sections) indicate that hyperdrive is definitely casualistic, but also utilizes a modified theory of relativity.

[Norade]

I think I'll start with an isult saying that even Avianflutard put more effort in than you do.

Except that OA isn't any harder than SW as it's ideas are still half baked nonsense that has no backing in any real science. I can just as easily say the idea of magic energy shields, hypermatter, and hyperspace aren't impossible therefore Star Wars is now hard sci-fi.

As for reverse engineering hyper drive, might I ask how. Assuming they never take an intact example all they have to go with is there is a flash of light and a ship shows up. How do they work out anything besides, hey they have FTL from that?

Lastly, bonus points from you, that would be like a retard giving me an A+ and a gold star.

Why the hang up of hard sci-fi? Is there some history here about that I'm unaware of? But if we're going to stay on that topic what is impossible, given what we currently know, is the FTL travel and the Force. So yes OA is harder the SW. I've never said that makes it better though...

As for reverse engineering FTL.

1) As soon as SW ships and probes start showing up they are going to learn (possibly very painfully) that the rules have changed and causality breaking FTL travel is now possible. Knowing something can be done goes a long way.

2) The effects of entering and leaving hyperspace almost certainly contain more information about the process then an undifferentiated flash of light. So that would help narrow down the possible paths to engineering it.

3) The probes have some version of an FTL drive eve if it is one way. Again useful information can be extracted from them.

4) It seems likely to me that a working example would fall into their hands sooner or later. The Empire is going to have to send out A LOT of vessels and hyperdrives are not exactly uncommon in SW. There are all sorts of possible infiltration routs especially given the nano-tech capabilities of OA.

First, FTL travel is theorized but only using wormholes and we have made light break the so called barrier but it still took the same amount of time for all information to reach us so it wasn't that impressive. Second, yeah, the force is kind of magic, but if it existed it could be explained by physics.

1) Except the rules haven't changed and as far as the AI's go their enemy just did the impossible. There is no reason to assume that Hyperdrive needs different laws of physics to work, therefore you assume that it doesn't.

2) Yes, that might start to narrow it down, or it might not. It depends of what is released, how its make-up changes from jump to jump, and what instruments the AI's have to gather this data with.

3) The drive might be burnt out after use and tell you nothing and the casing seems to get demolished on impact so if the probe can land before you get to it then you again nothing.

4) Except that Nanowank doesn't go through shields and will die the second it faces GE level ECM. So much for that plan.

[Junghalli]

Then you have the stasis fields, without which times moves faster for the user...

Just curious: why is this a problem they feel the need to have a specialized system to prevent? You'd think spending less time on your trip would be a good thing.

Or do you mean the voyage would subjectively take a very long time without it? In which case I think this would probably be less of a problem to immortal AIs accustomed to a universe where century and millenia-long voyages are common than to mortal humans.

Note: I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of transapients quickly reverse-engineering hyperdrives, just speculating on this one aspect of the problem.

[Imperial Overlord]

While I take your point, this example doesn't exactly hold the same amount of water that it might in a debate involving the Galactic Empire and, I don't know, the United Federation of Planets or the Earth Alliance. I cannot believe that I am saying something in support of Orion's Arm, but try to keep in mind that the high end intelligences can do things like build personal basement universes and tinker with fundamental properties of spacetime as a rule. I don't think it's actually all that controversial to suggest that Orion's Arm is at least as 'advanced' as Star Wars, and is fully capable of things that would make people in the Galactic Empire sit back and say 'haha, what the fuck, how did they do that?'. It's easy to write off Orion's Arm because a lot of its fans are enormous, titanic, ocean-going wankers, but come the fuck on. Obi Wan Kenobi can do maintenence on a high end hyperdrive with a space screwdriver: in universe it's obviously not a ridiculously super complex borderline magical black box technology. The idea that one of the high end AGIs couldn't take one apart and work out what makes it go is silly (getting one intact is a different matter, but that's not really relevant to my point). The things you should be focussing on are things which Orion's Arm may not necessarily be able to replicate, like hypermatter. Hypermatter is stupid, so probably could not be produced simply from examining some in its final state, and the Sephirotics won't have any real way to go and seek out hypermatter refineries to observe its creation in action. If the hyperdrive relies on totally made up materials, then you can suggest that it's unlikely that they could be reproduced. But at the same time, it's not good enough to simply assume that the hyperdrive requires these materials.

If AIs understood hyperspace, they would already have it. I'm not saying they couldn't figure it out in a comparatively small amount of time with enough data points, which is pretty fucking impressive, but they're short data acquisition tools (FTL sensors) and time to run actual experiments to flesh out their understanding of a brand new batch of physics.

As for fixing a hyperdrive with a screwdrive, so fucking what. I can fix some problems with my computer with a screwdriver. That doesn't mean I have total understanding of twenty-first century computers, that means I know how to fix a bad fan or power supply.

[Bakustra]

Then you have the stasis fields, without which times moves faster for the user...

Just curious: why is this a problem they feel the need to have a specialized system to prevent? You'd think spending less time on your trip would be a good thing.

Or do you mean the voyage would subjectively take a very long time without it? In which case I think this would probably be less of a problem to immortal AIs accustomed to a universe where century and millenia-long voyages are common than to mortal humans.

Note: I'm not saying anything about the feasibility of transapients quickly reverse-engineering hyperdrives, just speculating on this one aspect of the problem.

The second. It is implied that this is a massive dilation, and Dr. Saxton's website indicates that this is akin to a reversal of subluminal time dilation; at the velocities of SW ships, it takes subjectively as long for the inhabitants as it would take light to travel the same distance. So this is not a problem when it comes to intragalactic travel for travelers accustomed to milennia-long voyages, but crossing the Milky Way would take a subjective time of 100,000 years, which I doubt is customary for Orion's Arm vessels to do all in one go, without any maintenance. Intergalactic travel would take even longer. Of course, this is neatly canceled out by the somewhat smaller speeds that OA vessels would likely be able to achieve with test hyperdrives, but still would be a factor that demanded investigation and slowed the progress of hyperdrive development and implementation

[Junghalli]

The second. It is implied that this is a massive dilation, and Dr. Saxton's website indicates that this is akin to a reversal of subluminal time dilation; at the velocities of SW ships, it takes subjectively as long for the inhabitants as it would take light to travel the same distance. So this is not a problem when it comes to intragalactic travel for travelers accustomed to milennia-long voyages, but crossing the Milky Way would take a subjective time of 100,000 years, which I doubt is customary for Orion's Arm vessels to do all in one go, without any maintenance. Intergalactic travel would take even longer. Of course, this is neatly canceled out by the somewhat smaller speeds that OA vessels would likely be able to achieve with test hyperdrives, but still would be a factor that demanded investigation and slowed the progress of hyperdrive development and implementation

Ah, thank you for the explanation.

[Ford Prefect]

If AIs understood hyperspace, they would already have it. I'm not saying they couldn't figure it out in a comparatively small amount of time with enough data points, which is pretty fucking impressive, but they're short data acquisition tools (FTL sensors) and time to run actual experiments to flesh out their understanding of a brand new batch of physics.

As for fixing a hyperdrive with a screwdrive, so fucking what. I can fix some problems with my computer with a screwdriver. That doesn't mean I have total understanding of twenty-first century computers, that means I know how to fix a bad fan or power supply.

You're missing the point. GR tried to depict the idea as being ridiculous, using the usual analogy of 'people from the 19th century try to reverse engineer advanced thing', but in this context the argument itself is not appropriate. This isn't like 19th century encoutnering a piece of technology hundreds of years in excess of their own, it's more like someone of equivalent, if not more advanced, technological and scientific capability encountering an unusual thing that was previously unknown to them. That's why I said it would be a better argument to demonstrate that the hypderdrive requires wholly fictional materials which cannot be replicated just from observation ... which Bakustra just did, so continuing this line of discussion is completely irrelevant.

[Ghost Rider]

If AIs understood hyperspace, they would already have it. I'm not saying they couldn't figure it out in a comparatively small amount of time with enough data points, which is pretty fucking impressive, but they're short data acquisition tools (FTL sensors) and time to run actual experiments to flesh out their understanding of a brand new batch of physics.

As for fixing a hyperdrive with a screwdrive, so fucking what. I can fix some problems with my computer with a screwdriver. That doesn't mean I have total understanding of twenty-first century computers, that means I know how to fix a bad fan or power supply.

You're missing the point. GR tried to depict the idea as being ridiculous, using the usual analogy of 'people from the 19th century try to reverse engineer advanced thing', but in this context the argument itself is not appropriate. This isn't like 19th century encoutnering a piece of technology hundreds of years in excess of their own, it's more like someone of equivalent, if not more advanced, technological and scientific capability encountering an unusual thing that was previously unknown to them. That's why I said it would be a better argument to demonstrate that the hypderdrive requires wholly fictional materials which cannot be replicated just from observation ... which Bakustra just did, so continuing this line of discussion is completely irrelevant.

Except Imperial Overlord did demonstrate my point of why I objected to Sarevok's idiocy. From what we've seen, we think it's just parts. Bakustra demonstrated that there is likely immensely more, and just saying "They have immense AIs" is a pointless qualifier. In what way are they suddenly making the engineering leaps? To say just because people fiddle with the thing doesn't convey anything except said creators wanted it that way and directed their efforts to that.

[Manthor]

Hmm.Totally didn't consider the Galaxy Gun.Yep.I would have to take it back then.OA is outgunned by the GE in a military confrontation.Too many initial advantages of FTL travel and starbusting firepower.

Do I think the tech base for OA is more impressive and advanced?Yes.Thats a subjective opinion.Do I consider the GE having more firepower than the OA Sephirotics?Yes.That's an undeniable fact.

[ThomasP]

I have a question re: the meta-rules of the vs. matchup.

I don't know very much about OA besides what I've read from the links in this thread, so this could well be a wrong statement, but it would seem that the higher level AIs of that setting have derived a good portion (if not all) of knowable physics regarding that universe. The reason they don't have a hyperdrive is not because they simply haven't figured it out, it's because FTL travel doesn't exist in that setting.

Now for the vs matchup, you change that by assuming hyperspace exists and hyperdrive works as stated in the SW setting. That's fair enough.

Here's the thing though: if SW physics are suddenly in effect in the mutual setting, then why is it that the OA minds (who have already demonstrated very advanced knowledge of physics) are assumed not to discover this knowledge through their own experimentation? Capability to exploit it aside, it doesn't follow to me that they'd just be blind ignorant of something that would seem to be so fundamental especially given their exploits with wormholes and baby universes and such.

It just seems a little biased to set it up that way; it's one thing to say they didn't discover FTL due to oversight, but another thing entirely to change the laws of nature by Act of Versus and then take it for granted that they wouldn't discover the difference until they were being shredded by neon death-bolts.

If there's a reason for this or if I've missed something in there somewhere, I'd appreciate being filled in.

[Imperial Overlord]

The assumption in place is that both sides have their normal capabilities and those abilities will function, subject to reason. The AI gods of Orion's Arm therefore retain their high intelligence and vast computing powers. They are not, however, omniscient. A blindspot or a lack of capacity is generally assumed in the case of such gaps. Considering how badly FTL will slap around causality and/or relativity (which observation of the physical universe overwhelmingly supports) and the resource intensive and hypertech infrastructure required to produce hypermatter and hyperdives even if you know how to do it, such a gap in their knowledge is actually fairly credible.

[Lord of the Abyss]

It seems to me that the OA cultures would pick up the specifications for a hyperdrive almost immediately, by the simple expedient of asking for it, buying it, or stealing it from the first refugee, freighter, smuggler, mercenary or what-have-you to show up in their systems if nothing else. Keeping it secret from them would be like us trying to keep the internal combustion engine secret from them if some aliens showed up; the technology is just too common.

[Teleros]

Here's the thing though: if SW physics are suddenly in effect in the mutual setting, then why is it that the OA minds (who have already demonstrated very advanced knowledge of physics) are assumed not to discover this knowledge through their own experimentation? Capability to exploit it aside, it doesn't follow to me that they'd just be blind ignorant of something that would seem to be so fundamental especially given their exploits with wormholes and baby universes and such.

Let us say that you can discover SW hyperspace through a particular type of particle accelerator experiments. If one of these AI gods has already done those experiments to death two millennia ago and not discovered anything (because of OA physics), why would it do them again now? It would have to know that the situation had changed, and then it would have a hell of a lot of experimentation to do before it found the above means of discovering SW hyperspace.

[Norade]

It seems to me that the OA cultures would pick up the specifications for a hyperdrive almost immediately, by the simple expedient of asking for it, buying it, or stealing it from the first refugee, freighter, smuggler, mercenary or what-have-you to show up in their systems if nothing else. Keeping it secret from them would be like us trying to keep the internal combustion engine secret from them if some aliens showed up; the technology is just too common.

Wow, I can see why you're stuck with that VI title. What makes you think that a) the OA even has anything a trader used to dealing with the GE would want & b) that even having some civilian hyperspace capable craft would do anything against a military force. Even if they do get a working ship and all the info on how it all works they still need to build the tools to build the tools they'll need to make it work.

[Serafina]

The assumption that the laws of physics would change is inherently flawed anyway, since parsimony practically demands that they don't.
Hence, SW simply has more advanced physics than OA - OA would have access to them, but they are simply not advanced enough.


As for "someone is going to give them hyperdrives", it's actually not that unlikely that they can capture some.
But unless a whole group of hyperdrive scientists goes along with that, they simply lack the knowledge to do anything with it.

The problem is simply that they have NO capability to measure anything the hyperdrive actually does. Sure, they can analyze how it is constructed and what it does in real space, but they don't even have a theoretical concept of hyperspace.
I've compared it to measuring how a combustion engine works without the capability of measuring heat or even a theoretical concept of it. Except that it is worse, since you can still measure the effects of heat while you can't measure the effects of hyperspace on realspace - since it doesn't interact with realspace as far as we know (realspace interacts with it, but AFAIK not vice versa).
In other words, they can't even begin to study it.

Furthermore, hyperdrive was originally developed by the Rakata, who also had (propably, no one is entirely sure) the capability to create, arrange and stabilize a whole cluster of black holes as well as other feats on a galactic scale.
We do not know much about them, but since OA has never demonstrated anything approaching such feats, assuming that they can decipher hyperdrives is simply unfounded and unjustified.

Remember, we are talking about a situation that is worse than anything in real life.
At least da Vinci would have a chance of measuring the output of a combustion engine and every other properties, given sufficient time and resources (he would die before getting anywhere of course). Because all that stuff interacts with the physical universe.
Hyperdrive doesn't, at least not in any way we know about. For all we know, it took the Force (the Rakata were quite force sensitive) to figure out that hyperspace even exists, tough that it admittedly idle speculation.

Either way, the odds of figuring out hyperdrives before they get their sorry arses handed to them are simply nonexistent.

[Lord of the Abyss]

It seems to me that the OA cultures would pick up the specifications for a hyperdrive almost immediately, by the simple expedient of asking for it, buying it, or stealing it from the first refugee, freighter, smuggler, mercenary or what-have-you to show up in their systems if nothing else. Keeping it secret from them would be like us trying to keep the internal combustion engine secret from them if some aliens showed up; the technology is just too common.

Wow, I can see why you're stuck with that VI title. What makes you think that a) the OA even has anything a trader used to dealing with the GE would want & b) that even having some civilian hyperspace capable craft would do anything against a military force. Even if they do get a working ship and all the info on how it all works they still need to build the tools to build the tools they'll need to make it work.

A: Immortality comes to mind. Nor is that all they have to offer; Star Wars technology is very uneven.

B: You miss my point; they wouldn't have to buy Star Wars civilian craft, they'd more likely buy or steal the design specs for hyperdrives and put them in their own ships.

And with their implausibly good nanotech they already have the "tools to make the tools". They just need the specifications.


And I'm stuck with a VI title because of my early willingness to condemn our behavior in Iraq.

As for "someone is going to give them hyperdrives", it's actually not that unlikely that they can capture some.
But unless a whole group of hyperdrive scientists goes along with that, they simply lack the knowledge to do anything with it.

The problem is simply that they have NO capability to measure anything the hyperdrive actually does. Sure, they can analyze how it is constructed and what it does in real space, but they don't even have a theoretical concept of hyperspace.

So they just buy the manuals and textbooks to go along with it. Again; the problem is the hyperdrive is a common technology; both the engines themselves and knowledge about them is everywhere. There's no way to keep someone from handing them everything they need to use it.

[Serafina]

And how exactly are they going to buy that stuff?
They don't even have ANY form of FTL, how are they going to reach anyone who has such things in the GE?
Again, you are taking this far to simplicistic.

And even if they had Hyperdrive they would still have no fuel - which is mined from Black Holes, which they can explicitly not do (they can mine stuff outside the actual singularity, but that's not that difficult).
But even if they had that, their weapons technology is still a joke compared to the GE.

[Bakustra]

And how exactly are they going to buy that stuff?
They don't even have ANY form of FTL, how are they going to reach anyone who has such things in the GE?
Again, you are taking this far to simplicistic.

And even if they had Hyperdrive they would still have no fuel - which is mined from Black Holes, which they can explicitly not do (they can mine stuff outside the actual singularity, but that's not that difficult).
But even if they had that, their weapons technology is still a joke compared to the GE.

Buying is not going to be the hard part; the SW economy is such that planets producing bulk grains are profitable exporters. They can barter food if need be, or artworks, or their entertainment products. Even their industrial goods are potentially viable, as exotics or curiosities if nothing else. Medicinally, they do have a workable method of biological immortality. Once the galaxies come into contact, only the most arcane of methods would not be plied by curious freetraders and scouts from Imperial space.

Hypermatter is not mined from black holes, necessarily. Repulsorlifts rely on "subnuclear knots of space-time" manufactured near black holes, and that is what you are thinking of. When it comes to the hyperdrive, the hypermatter is used as a "ballast" to enable FTL. It is lost slowly, if at all. Conventional fuels can be used to actually propel and power the ship, though they lack hypermatter's incredible properties. Presumably the hypermatter ballast is sold with the hyperdrive. The objections that I brought up do still apply to manufacturing or developing their own hyperdrives, and will keep their ships slower until they develop designs specifically for hyperdrive.

I am wondering if this will come to war at all; surely a superintelligent, highly anthropomorphic AI would be able to recognize the advantage the Empire has, and the length of time that it will be vulnerable even in the best of scenarios, and therefore prefer to play nice and conciliatory, at least initially. Or are the OA AIs all ludicrously patriotic or something?

On the Imperial side, they're not going to rush in and conquer strange territory without first scouting it out. Once the OA knowledge of biological immortality filters up to Palpatine, then he will probably do as he did with the Ssi-Ruuk and Rokur Gepta and seek to come to a deal with the OA civilizations (or at least one). Bio-immortality would at minimum extend the lifespan of his bodies immensely, even if it can't make him immortal against the corrupting influence of the Dark Side of the Force. It's doubtful that they would engage in war even if Palpatine is removed from the equation; what they would want from OA is dependent on their infrastructure, which would be damaged if not ruined by war. If they don't want any of what OA has, then, like the Kathol sector or other backwards regions, they'll probably leave it mostly alone and come to an agreement of some kind. Then OA gets breathing time to build itself up to Imperial standards, and presumably becomes a part of galactic society.

[Serafina]

Buying is not going to be the hard part; the SW economy is such that planets producing bulk grains are profitable exporters. They can barter food if need be, or artworks, or their entertainment products. Even their industrial goods are potentially viable, as exotics or curiosities if nothing else. Medicinally, they do have a workable method of biological immortality. Once the galaxies come into contact, only the most arcane of methods would not be plied by curious freetraders and scouts from Imperial space.

The problem is more that they have to fly to an undefended planet that also has the necessary information about hyperdrive. Given that most small planets are unlikely to have it (much like you won't fin a full library on nuclear physics in every small town), that limits their options severely.

Worst of all, they do NOT have any FTL. Sure, they can use wormholes as shortcuts, but that's only useful if they have already moved a wormhole into place. And their fastest ships get close to C at best. Which means travel times of AT LEAST years, if not decades, depending on how many planets they can choose from.

I am wondering if this will come to war at all; surely a superintelligent, highly anthropomorphic AI would be able to recognize the advantage the Empire has, and the length of time that it will be vulnerable even in the best of scenarios, and therefore prefer to play nice and conciliatory, at least initially. Or are the OA AIs all ludicrously patriotic or something?

That's a much more interesting question, which has yet to be explored.

[Junghalli]

Or are the OA AIs all ludicrously patriotic or something?

No, I've never seen anything indicating the Archai to be stupid like that. If they realize the military advantages of the Empire I'd expect them to do pretty much everything they could to avoid a military confrontation, at least until they can reverse-engineer enough of the Empire's relevant technology to have a good chance in such a confrontation.

I think the question of how that would play itself out is more interesting than a straight-up vs debate.