The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[SCRawl]

I don't think there's any special reason to believe that the holy spirit is an actual entity. The whole holy trinity concept is complete nonsense -- it doesn't even make an appearance in the Bible. The absence of an entity corresponding to the spirit portion of the holy trinity would not be felt.

[Stuart]

And I must say, you hear much more interesting conversations than I do.

When one gets to my age, one's heard pretty much everything (on the other hand, I thought I had until Avianmosquito turned up), especially if people-watching happens to be a hobby.

Now that's an interesting question. Yahweh and Jesus are immensely powerful physical entities. So what the heck is the Holy Ghost? The Bible is rather obscure on this point.

Possibilities:
1) Everything mentioned in Revelations has been proven to be a tangible creature, so the Holy Ghost is also a powerful angel with special duties.
2) Or it's an office, possibly related to the demonic heralds. That might make the late Apollyon a "Holy Ghost" (excuse the wordplay).
3) The Holy Ghost might be an immaterial being that even Yahweh respects. Just who's been whispering in a certain demon's ear, giving him good advice?

That's my two cents.
Now that's an interesting question. Yahweh and Jesus are immensely powerful physical entities. So what the heck is the Holy Ghost? The Bible is rather obscure on this point. Possibilities:
1) Everything mentioned in Revelations has been proven to be a tangible creature, so the Holy Ghost is also a powerful angel with special duties.
2) Or it's an office, possibly related to the demonic heralds. That might make the late Apollyon a "Holy Ghost" (excuse the wordplay).
3) The Holy Ghost might be an immaterial being that even Yahweh respects. Just who's been whispering in a certain demon's ear, giving him good advice?

This is a genuine spoiler so be warned. Spoiler

Uriel was the Holy Ghost, Michael himself is the lamb beast while Yahweh was the Dragon. That will come out in a future part and is significant for the final resolution

By the way Stuart, is Gen. Schwartz still USAF chief of staff as of chapter 74, or has he been moved to some other position/operational role?

yes, he is.

Cecelia5578, it's not a "formality" problem, it's his horrible timing: the photo interpreter was joking to a morose Petraeus who had just ordered the deaths (and horrible "post-initiation lives") of over a quarter-million beings, and was already facing the prospect of having to kill a LOT more... in a manner way more personal than what happened in Iraq against Abigor's army. (Remember, he's the only one mentioned to have had been given release authority.) This is a man who in a worse case scenario could become be one of the biggest mass killers in human history.

Pefectly put. There's a time and place for flippancy and that wasn't either.

[bcoogler]

Cecelia5578, it's not a "formality" problem, it's his horrible timing: the photo interpreter was joking to a morose Petraeus who had just ordered the deaths (and horrible "post-initiation lives") of over a quarter-million beings, and was already facing the prospect of having to kill a LOT more... in a manner way more personal than what happened in Iraq against Abigor's army. (Remember, he's the only one mentioned to have had been given release authority.) This is a man who in a worse case scenario could become be one of the biggest mass killers in human history.

Pefectly put. There's a time and place for flippancy and that wasn't either.

Speaking of flippancy -- or lack thereof -- I'd just like to say *thanks* Stuart for the horrifyingly detailed description of a nuclear initiation and the aftermath of even a "clean" detonation. It certainly dampened my blood-lust for additional nuking of Heaven -- and I think that's a good thing.

Far too many people in the world, myself included, have little more than a Hollywood idea what a nuke can do. For all the people who like to scream "nuke 'em 'til they glow" any time there's a crisis somewhere in the world, I think your writeup should be required reading.

[Stuart]

Far too many people in the world, myself included, have little more than a Hollywood idea what a nuke can do. For all the people who like to scream "nuke 'em 'til they glow" any time there's a crisis somewhere in the world, I think your writeup should be required reading.

Thank you, thank you very much indeed. That's one of the reasons I write these stories. I think that if people understood what weapons do to their victims (ranging from a simple bullet to a nuclear device), they might be a little less enthusiastic about using them. So I try to highlight what the consequences of using such weapons really are. Thank you again for your reassurance that the point does get home. It really is much appreciated

[darksoul]

Far too many people in the world, myself included, have little more than a Hollywood idea what a nuke can do. For all the people who like to scream "nuke 'em 'til they glow" any time there's a crisis somewhere in the world, I think your writeup should be required reading.

Thank you, thank you very much indeed. That's one of the reasons I write these stories. I think that if people understood what weapons do to their victims (ranging from a simple bullet to a nuclear device), they might be a little less enthusiastic about using them. So I try to highlight what the consequences of using such weapons really are. Thank you again for your reassurance that the point does get home. It really is much appreciated

I agree with both.

On a (midly) related topic, I understand why the angels got all cancer-stricken because of the nuke, being that their regenerative skills, whatever the chemistry involved, seems to logically make them prone to this. The question is, angels (or baldricks, for that matter) don't appear to get sick, and regenerate even entire limbs. Wouldn't that made them prone to cancer even in regular circunstances?

[Night_stalker]

Yes, bu they wouldn't know what it is, and they just dismissed it as the plague or something other than cancer.

[bcoogler]

Yes, bu they wouldn't know what it is, and they just dismissed it as the plague or something other than cancer.

"Look! Her wings are deformed. Witchcraft! She's a witch!"

"How do you know she is a witch?"

"She turned me into a newt!"

"A newt?"

"Well... it got better...."

[Simon_Jester]

I've had quite a few customers of certain... background who, upon hearing about my store's "+50% store credit on game trade-ins" or "buy 2 get 1 free on used games/accessories" promotions, ALWAYS wonder, "so 50% off?" or "buy 1 get 1 free?" or assume that the latter might go for new games... Admitted it's one of the reasons I'm intending to leave, I'm tired of dealing with them.

Seconded. Happens two or three times a day in my job. On a good day.

To be fair to some of these people, it's very possible to be running on a fraction of your brainpower at some times of the day. There are people who are 100% alert and capable at all times, yes. But... I have a bachelor's in physics, so I'd like to think I'm not a complete idiot. And yet I've probably asked retailers a few dumb questions over the years. And I know beyond any possible doubt that I've made idiot statements to people I talked to over the phone, such as the time my freshman year in college when I tried to place a call about a newspaper subscription right after waking up and for the life of me couldn't remember my own ZIP code.

I knew the code, but for some reason I didn't know it then.

So it does happen even to people who aren't stupid all the time. Everyone asks dumb questions when they're tired or distracted.

Yes, bu they wouldn't know what it is, and they just dismissed it as the plague or something other than cancer.

If their cancer rate was normal it would kill senior angels and demons in no more than a few centuries.

I think their immune system must have been engineered to be very resistant to normal tumors- good at policing them. But after picking up enough greys of radiation, their immune system is fried and can't catch the tumors when they're small. At which point angelic cells with warped DNA start "regenerating" horribly, horribly wrong.

So normally they'd be damn near cancer-immune, but a full body bath of thermal neutrons and gammas isn't normal conditions for them.

[Night_stalker]

The radiation probably scrambled up the regrentive process like you said, which is the only real explanation that I could see being feasible. It's either that or the healing factor can't deal with all the injuries at once, so it's trying to do too much with too little resources.

[Chad]

Or perhaps he's tired of his deadbeat dad and flat-out will not come to his aid? Four things could happen:

There is a fifth option, some one scooped him and portaled him out before the nuke went off and he wont be back til book 3.

Declan

Oohhh now there is a scary option that I really like.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Or perhaps he's tired of his deadbeat dad and flat-out will not come to his aid? Four things could happen:

There is a fifth option, some one scooped him and portaled him out before the nuke went off and he wont be back til book 3.

Declan

Oohhh now there is a scary option that I really like.

I don't. What would be the point? I mean, Belial's already gotten away twice already, for example. I'm quite happy with how Jesus Elhmas was dispatched via nuclear overkill.

[impatrick4life]

Or perhaps he's tired of his deadbeat dad and flat-out will not come to his aid? Four things could happen:

There is a fifth option, some one scooped him and portaled him out before the nuke went off and he wont be back til book 3.

Declan

Oohhh now there is a scary option that I really like.

**** would seriously get real.

[bcoogler]

Some of the angels are in a pitiful state. They're encased in massive, fast-growing cancers. Like that Indonesian tree-man. Nobody here knows what to do about them.

The radiation probably scrambled up the regenerative process like you said, which is the only real explanation that I could see being feasible. It's either that or the healing factor can't deal with all the injuries at once, so it's trying to do too much with too little resources.

Which begs the question: Given time, will the regenerative process eventually repair itself, or are these angels permanently screwed?

There's no way to know at this stage. Even if the regenerative process can repair itself, what do you do until then? Keep hacking off the massive, encasing cancers -- at least enough to prevent suffocation and allow other bodily functions -- and hope for the best? Or do you euthanize the cancer victims?

Tough call either way. Probably both will be done.

[darksoul]

I've had quite a few customers of certain... background who, upon hearing about my store's "+50% store credit on game trade-ins" or "buy 2 get 1 free on used games/accessories" promotions, ALWAYS wonder, "so 50% off?" or "buy 1 get 1 free?" or assume that the latter might go for new games... Admitted it's one of the reasons I'm intending to leave, I'm tired of dealing with them.

Seconded. Happens two or three times a day in my job. On a good day.

To be fair to some of these people, it's very possible to be running on a fraction of your brainpower at some times of the day. There are people who are 100% alert and capable at all times, yes. But... I have a bachelor's in physics, so I'd like to think I'm not a complete idiot. And yet I've probably asked retailers a few dumb questions over the years. And I know beyond any possible doubt that I've made idiot statements to people I talked to over the phone, such as the time my freshman year in college when I tried to place a call about a newspaper subscription right after waking up and for the life of me couldn't remember my own ZIP code.

I knew the code, but for some reason I didn't know it then.

So it does happen even to people who aren't stupid all the time. Everyone asks dumb questions when they're tired or distracted.

Yes, bu they wouldn't know what it is, and they just dismissed it as the plague or something other than cancer.

If their cancer rate was normal it would kill senior angels and demons in no more than a few centuries.

I think their immune system must have been engineered to be very resistant to normal tumors- good at policing them. But after picking up enough greys of radiation, their immune system is fried and can't catch the tumors when they're small. At which point angelic cells with warped DNA start "regenerating" horribly, horribly wrong.

So normally they'd be damn near cancer-immune, but a full body bath of thermal neutrons and gammas isn't normal conditions for them.

but wouldn't such an inmune system, powerful to combat its own cells constantly, be prone to leucemia? Or some other self-inmune deceases?

[impatrick4life]

Some of the angels are in a pitiful state. They're encased in massive, fast-growing cancers. Like that Indonesian tree-man. Nobody here knows what to do about them.

The radiation probably scrambled up the regenerative process like you said, which is the only real explanation that I could see being feasible. It's either that or the healing factor can't deal with all the injuries at once, so it's trying to do too much with too little resources.

Which begs the question: Given time, will the regenerative process eventually repair itself, or are these angels permanently screwed?

There's no way to know at this stage. Even if the regenerative process can repair itself, what do you do until then? Keep hacking off the massive, encasing cancers -- at least enough to prevent suffocation and allow other bodily functions -- and hope for the best? Or do you euthanize the cancer victims?

Tough call either way. Probably both will be done.

Knowing how averse the angels are to losing one of their own, I'd bet the former.

[Jusu]

Wow, thanks for posting the chapter! Moving house on the Fourth of July, not exactly my idea of a good time.

Yahyah finally realized eh? Good for him. Maybe he'll learn in the other-afterlife. Or not. Who knows if there is another afterlife? Also, nice song choice.

[Simon_Jester]

but wouldn't such an inmune system, powerful to combat its own cells constantly, be prone to leucemia? Or some other self-inmune deceases?

...Spelling?

But seriously, the problem I see is that angels don't die of cancer or autoimmune disorders. That is a fact- they can live for thousands of years without getting sick and dying, and there's no mention of large numbers of angels having gotten sick and died in the past. Thus, I conclude that however their immune system and healing abilities work, they do NOT work in a way that places them at a high risk of contracting cancer or immune disorders.

For that matter, they must be less at risk than ordinary humans; a human who lived for thousands of years would be almost guaranteed to get cancer. So there has to be something unusual about radiation exposure that destroys the angelic immune system's normal ability to police up cancer cells without attacking healthy tissue.

[darksoul]

but wouldn't such an inmune system, powerful to combat its own cells constantly, be prone to leucemia? Or some other self-inmune deceases?

...Spelling?

but wouldn't the angelic immune system, powerful enough as it is to battle its own cells constantly leave the body vulnerable to leukemia? or some other autoimmune disease?

But seriously, the problem I see is that angels don't die of cancer or autoimmune disorders. That is a fact- they can live for thousands of years without getting sick and dying, and there's no mention of large numbers of angels having gotten sick and died in the past. Thus, I conclude that however their immune system and healing abilities work, they do NOT work in a way that places them at a high risk of contracting cancer or immune disorders.

For that matter, they must be less at risk than ordinary humans; a human who lived for thousands of years would be almost guaranteed to get cancer. So there has to be something unusual about radiation exposure that destroys the angelic immune system's normal ability to police up cancer cells without attacking healthy tissue.

yes, all that is clear and true. but it still doesn't answer the question. Angel's dont die of all age, of cancer, or sickness. That's the fact- now, what's the explanation, taken that their biochemistry, body configuration and such are very similar to humans? The study of angelic biological features can open new ways to medicine, I would say... And an in-story hand waving at this would be nice.
I first thought that their environments were relatively healthier than humans (even hell, for baldricks adapted to it), so their might not be microbes enough to get them sick. But that can't be, given that they came and go to and from Earth without this turning in a War of the Worlds epidemic scenario. So their bodies defend somehow. But how?

[Simon_Jester]

My guess would just be that their immune systems are really good- good at identifying foreign bodies and destroying them, good at spotting damaged cells and destroying them too.

Their regenerative abilities may also help them avoid autoimmune disorders; even if the immune system goes wrong and destroys a handful of healthy cells, the body will be able to replace them. Genes that cause rare, extensive autoimmune problems might simply be engineered out of the population.

[TimothyC]

Something just hit me relating to Stuart's spoilers: Spoiler

Uriel was something like 60 feet tall, while Michael is only 30 or so. Could Uriel have been from Yahweh's race?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Something just hit me relating to Stuart's spoilers: Spoiler

Uriel was something like 60 feet tall, while Michael is only 30 or so. Could Uriel have been from Yahweh's race?

Angels and demons don't stop growing as they age, so it just means they're older/more powerful.

[SilverHawk]

Far too many people in the world, myself included, have little more than a Hollywood idea what a nuke can do. For all the people who like to scream "nuke 'em 'til they glow" any time there's a crisis somewhere in the world, I think your writeup should be required reading.

Thank you, thank you very much indeed. That's one of the reasons I write these stories. I think that if people understood what weapons do to their victims (ranging from a simple bullet to a nuclear device), they might be a little less enthusiastic about using them. So I try to highlight what the consequences of using such weapons really are. Thank you again for your reassurance that the point does get home. It really is much appreciated

So what about people like me then? Where we already know the effects of varying types of weaponry on the human body and your story serves as the ability to watch the plebes get sick over reality?

[Edward Yee]

I've had quite a few customers of certain... background who, upon hearing about my store's "+50% store credit on game trade-ins" or "buy 2 get 1 free on used games/accessories" promotions, ALWAYS wonder, "so 50% off?" or "buy 1 get 1 free?" or assume that the latter might go for new games... Admitted it's one of the reasons I'm intending to leave, I'm tired of dealing with them.

Seconded. Happens two or three times a day in my job. On a good day.

And I know beyond any possible doubt that I've made idiot statements to people I talked to over the phone, such as the time my freshman year in college when I tried to place a call about a newspaper subscription right after waking up and for the life of me couldn't remember my own ZIP code.

That's not the problem, I've had similar lapses myself, sometimes at work, but I'm quick to self-effacingly correct myself. For me the annoyance is that they are oh SO consistent about the version they mistakenly "hear," or use "just looking" as an excuse to brush me off... or, more likely, just up and leave the store when told what the promotions actually are.

Cecilia, remember as well that Petraeus already was... displeased by Don Brennan: "We kill a quarter of a million people in a split second and you're sorry because you didn't get more of them. Just who are you anyway?" He'd already had to take a few hours break, handing off operational control to Gen. Sir Jackson, and it wasn't because of his back or dehydration this time.

Stuart, what's Mr. "Less Zoomie More Roomie" doing in the forward HQ? Also... what's TSW McChrystal up to, still secretly squirreled in the darkness?

[Stuart]

So what about people like me then? Where we already know the effects of varying types of weaponry on the human body and your story serves as the ability to watch the plebes get sick over reality?

You're a small minority. In the old days when most people had been through some form of military service, most people knew what it was like. Now, only a small percentage do and all too many think of war as a video game with people dying nice and cleanly. One of the problems inherent in abolishing the draft.

[Darth Yan]

Some minor questions: Would mccain be stupid enough to use Sarah Palin as his vice president? How would exorcism be adressed. What issues would the election cover? Would the birthers still be bitching