SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Simon_Jester »

Norade wrote:I laid them [the Expansion-class] down before I knew there were going to be $1,200 point battle barges laying around, but you're right compared to some they're rather modest flagships perhaps showing that the RIS shipyards have yet to be tested by a real war. I would rather have a more balanced force than one comprised of too many super heavies though. It gives a fair bit more flexibility and allows a more measured response to threats.
Me, I don't think you should be hard on yourself. Umerian doctrine holds that massive supercapital flagships are more trouble than they're worth as single ships- a cross between the war elephants of Hellenic times and the infamous "white elephants" of Southeast Asia. They lack flexibility, they're single BIG targets (which our ships are pretty well optimized to engage), and, above all else... they tell you exactly where to shoot if you want to punch out the fleet command ship. :twisted:

"Commence primary ignition; concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer!"

You are to be commended for wasting less money on such a foolish idea than most of the galaxy's leading military powers!

Of course, we also put a lot of effort into the fleet tactical network so that if someone manages to kill our relatively fragile flagships, the admiral's second in command can take over the fleet fairly seamlessly. In theory.

In practice... well, the difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Norade »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Norade wrote:I laid them [the Expansion-class] down before I knew there were going to be $1,200 point battle barges laying around, but you're right compared to some they're rather modest flagships perhaps showing that the RIS shipyards have yet to be tested by a real war. I would rather have a more balanced force than one comprised of too many super heavies though. It gives a fair bit more flexibility and allows a more measured response to threats.
Me, I don't think you should be hard on yourself. Umerian doctrine holds that massive supercapital flagships are more trouble than they're worth as single ships- a cross between the war elephants of Hellenic times and the infamous "white elephants" of Southeast Asia. They lack flexibility, they're single BIG targets (which our ships are pretty well optimized to engage), and, above all else... they tell you exactly where to shoot if you want to punch out the fleet command ship. :twisted:

"Commence primary ignition; concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer!"

You are to be commended for wasting less money on such a foolish idea than most of the galaxy's leading military powers!

Of course, we also put a lot of effort into the fleet tactical network so that if someone manages to kill our relatively fragile flagships, the admiral's second in command can take over the fleet fairly seamlessly. In theory.

In practice... well, the difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference between theory and practice.
Well, it's a game of fake spaceships so I wanted something fun to pew-pew with, but at the same time I agree that having them can be a waste and your enemy may try to take them out to ensure that they deal a blow to your navy. That's why in game their considered something of a waste and, in theory, exist outside of normal fleet structure. Of course you try to keep an Admiral from including such ships into as many exercises as he can.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

The Battle Barge points were published days ago. You had plenty of time to change them.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

And in any case, since most people have not put up their OOBs and unless Steve objects or sets a deadline, I would say, by my own mod fiat, you are free to change them until Steve sets and demands a deadline.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Simon_Jester »

Well, Norade, I can love pew-pew as much as anyone else (my prologue section is just the beginning...) but I prefer to write two or three of my ships pew-pewing one of theirs, not the other way around.
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The Battle Barge points were published days ago. You had plenty of time to change them.
I, for one, am not complaining, but then I'm the one who's perfectly satisfied to never build anything over 700$ at all.

Also, I do understand the (sort of) complaint that there has been a marked (apparent) proliferation in the number of 1000$-plus supercapital ships in the game over the past week or so. Except for the most-prepared among us, a lot of people have started detailing ORBATs in that week, so the number of "visible" supercapitals has gone up dramatically just because everyone who wanted one now reveals that they have one.

If we plotted the number of supercapital ships revealed in everyone's published ORBATs over the past few weeks, the curve would go up sharply... but so would the number of published 300$ fleet carriers and 100$ cruisers. But no one notices how many 100$ cruisers someone's navy has; everyone takes notice of the 1200$ supercapital ships.

EDIT: Revised my starting fleet ORBAT to drop the cost of small craft wings attached to starships. That's the fleet strength "as of FY 3398;" very little construction occured except one-for-one replacement of some obsolete light starships in FY 3399 (thus no change in the ORBAT), and we are now just about to start FY 3400 (where we see the beginnings of the "new" fleet order of battle).
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Kartr_Kana »

I really don't see the big deal, I've just gone through every OOB that I could find and the IoM were the only ones with a significant number of $1000+ ships. Everyone else is using $500 ships as their heavies or lighter, with only a few ~$700 Super-Ultra-Heavies. So I'm not changing mine, just going to have to start cranking out some more Flag Dreadnoughts!! :)
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Norade »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:The Battle Barge points were published days ago. You had plenty of time to change them.
I'm not really complaining, I was more joking about how my ships are no longer the bruisers they were originally intended to be. Of course between laying them down and working on stats for them my focus changed and while I have debated cutting my numbers of lesser ships back some I am more or less willing to go into the game with what I have.

EDIT:
Simon_Jester wrote:Well, Norade, I can love pew-pew as much as anyone else (my prologue section is just the beginning...) but I prefer to write two or three of my ships pew-pewing one of theirs, not the other way around.
That works, that works. I think that I'm going the opposite way with my first story post, my fleet chasing down and capturing fleeing elements of a minor pirate fleet in unclaimed space. It will be an organized fleet versus low hundreds of smaller pirate craft.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Coyote »

Well, a tiny handful of ultra-mega-giga-uber ships also means that an enemy just has to create crises on several worlds, and the defender needs to pick which worlds are the most important ones for him to place his defending titano-barges...

Plus, if a titano-barge gets destroyed, you have a choice-- rebuild another one over the course of 20 years (while an enemy continues to whittle away) or just start cranking out lots of smaller ships quickly.

My ships top out at $600, plus each has a small escort of ultra-lights with them that are $185 worth of combat power total, so potentially $785 worth of warfighting in a complete package. Strategic flexibility, yay!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Kartr_Kana wrote:I really don't see the big deal, I've just gone through every OOB that I could find and the IoM were the only ones with a significant number of $1000+ ships. Everyone else is using $500 ships as their heavies or lighter, with only a few ~$700 Super-Ultra-Heavies. So I'm not changing mine, just going to have to start cranking out some more Flag Dreadnoughts!! :)
Actually PeZook has lots of 1000+ ships. It's just that he hasn't gotten around to post up his OOB.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Akhlut »

Coyote wrote:Well, a tiny handful of ultra-mega-giga-uber ships also means that an enemy just has to create crises on several worlds, and the defender needs to pick which worlds are the most important ones for him to place his defending titano-barges...
Luckily, I only have a single one and I don't have to worry about choosing where to put it at any given time, because it has a hyperdrive that can only move it within the home system. :lol:
Plus, if a titano-barge gets destroyed, you have a choice-- rebuild another one over the course of 20 years (while an enemy continues to whittle away) or just start cranking out lots of smaller ships quickly.
The rules say 9 years total to put out a $1000+ ship these days. 6 years construction, 3 years trials/fittings.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by loomer »

Psh, you guys still measure your ships in GDP allotments?

Fuckin' NCP level designs is where it's at!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by PeZook »

On the Chamarran abductions: Come to think of it, since it's not the Collectors doing the abducting, it's virtually certain that the Hierarchy will have captured one of the unscrupulous merchants who just wasn't good enough to pull it off, and interrogated him/her/them, so they will certainly know why the merchants are doing that, though not whether or not the rumors are true.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by PeZook »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Actually PeZook has lots of 1000+ ships. It's just that he hasn't gotten around to post up his OOB.
The nature of my star-nation precludes the posting of an OOB. The mods know everything there is to know, the rest of you bastards will have to work to get that information :P
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

PeZook wrote:
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: Actually PeZook has lots of 1000+ ships. It's just that he hasn't gotten around to post up his OOB.
The nature of my star-nation precludes the posting of an OOB. The mods know everything there is to know, the rest of you bastards will have to work to get that information :P
I think you meant single tense. Because I'm a mod and I don't know the OOB. :D
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Dave »

Norade wrote:Would anybody like to have a vessel encounter my new class of dreadnought as takes part in her first patrol after being evaluated? This need not be a hostile encounter, but something eventful would make for a good first post introducing the first of the class and her captain.
Me? I know we're not on the best of terms, but the biggest ships I have are $155 "Destroyers".

Swinging by for a "friendly visit" might cow us for a while.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by PeZook »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: I think you meant single tense. Because I'm a mod and I don't know the OOB. :D
Well, if Steve saw fit not to reveal it, that's his prerogative. It may be because you would have a conflict of interest or something ;)
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Norade »

Dave wrote:
Norade wrote:Would anybody like to have a vessel encounter my new class of dreadnought as takes part in her first patrol after being evaluated? This need not be a hostile encounter, but something eventful would make for a good first post introducing the first of the class and her captain.
Me? I know we're not on the best of terms, but the biggest ships I have are $155 "Destroyers".

Swinging by for a "friendly visit" might cow us for a while.
Yeah, I saw that. That said, you do have quiet the swarm of ships in the $100 range so the space raptors could try to swarm a larger ship. That is if each Captain weren't to busy hoping that if enough others die he might get a promotion. xD
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Kartr_Kana »

I sense the need to build an Anti-Collector Coalition and invade Collector space in order to preserve our Nations from the threat that the insidious Robots of Fear present!!
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Dave »

Norade wrote: Yeah, I saw that. That said, you do have quiet the swarm of ships in the $100 range so the space raptors could try to swarm a larger ship. That is if each Captain weren't to busy hoping that if enough others die he might get a promotion. xD
Hey, that's all we've been needing to fend off Shoal-space pirates for decades -- why bother building bigger?
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Kartr_Kana wrote:I sense the need to build an Anti-Collector Coalition and invade Collector space in order to preserve our Nations from the threat that the insidious Robots of Fear present!!
The Imperium of Man and the Sovereignty do not look kindly on huge incursions of foreign ships.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Kartr_Kana »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Kartr_Kana wrote:I sense the need to build an Anti-Collector Coalition and invade Collector space in order to preserve our Nations from the threat that the insidious Robots of Fear present!!
The Imperium of Man and the Sovereignty do not look kindly on huge incursions of foreign ships.
Unless it's directed at the Karlack?
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Force Lord »

Already made my first post in the story thread. As for what I'm planning, well, I have some ideas to spice things up a little. :twisted:
Kartr_Kana wrote:I sense the need to build an Anti-Collector Coalition and invade Collector space in order to preserve our Nations from the threat that the insidious Robots of Fear present!!
The Centrality has better things to do right now.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by PeZook »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: The Imperium of Man and the Sovereignty do not look kindly on huge incursions of foreign ships.
I'd guess a descendant of Byzantium would be wary of ideaological crusaders crossing through their territorry on the way to the target ;)
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by Norade »

Kartr_Kana wrote:I sense the need to build an Anti-Collector Coalition and invade Collector space in order to preserve our Nations from the threat that the insidious Robots of Fear present!!
That and find out just how many $1,000 super ships he has!
Dave wrote:
Norade wrote:Yeah, I saw that. That said, you do have quiet the swarm of ships in the $100 range so the space raptors could try to swarm a larger ship. That is if each Captain weren't to busy hoping that if enough others die he might get a promotion. xD
Hey, that's all we've been needing to fend off Shoal-space pirates for decades -- why bother building bigger?
True enough, we've been influenced by two grand Imperiums right near us and while one doesn't use super larger craft, the other has battle barges that dwarf the RIS's best efforts.
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Re: SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread I

Post by PeZook »

Norade wrote: That and find out just how many $1,000 super ships he has!
That's a pretty expensive way of finding it out :D
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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