Recommend an RPG game

[Soontir C'boath]

I have been playing D2 a bit and I am bored of it again. I am thinking about picking up Morrowind but I am unsure if I want to as it seems I'd need a decent mod library to play it decently. I have a PS3 with Fallout 3 as well as the first and second on PC so don't mention them.

I'm looking for one that is fun and engrossing straight out of the box. I have a PC that has a Radeon 2600/3600 video card, P4 2.8 GHZ, and 2GB of ram and the aforementioned PS3 w/ PS2 compatibility.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Depends on the style you looking for. You mentioned D2, if that's your bag then you can't do better than Titan Quest, whose gold bundle is probably on sale on Steam right now.

The Morrowind gold pack is old but good, but yes, it does benefit greatly from mods especially years after its prime.

The KotORs and Mass Effects are good if you like something more story and character oriented, and Dragon Age probably being the best of the lot (maybe ME2, depending on your own preferences).

[Stark]

D2 isn't an RPG.

The q diabl genre is huge; Titan Quest is good. If you're okay with shit art I think either Din's Curse or Depths of Peril are fun just because they do something interesting.

[General Zod]

A PS3? Then I'd highly recommend Yakuza 3. It's very Japan-centric (given the subject matter), so that might or might not be a breaking point, but I found it one of the most refreshing RPGs I've played in the last ten years. The closest game I could use to describe it is probably Shenmue, but there's a demo on PSN if you want to check it out. The story is also very easy to follow, and I found I didn't really need any knowledge of the other games to get what was going on.

[Soontir C'boath]

Played the demo for Titan Quest a bit and it was pretty good. The interface and menus were tight and organized unlike Din's Curse. Din's Curse was a bit cluttered and seemed to liken Diablo 1 with the multiple levels of the underground cave.

I'll definitely demo Dragon Age and Yakuza 3. Could always use more games on the PS3.

If I remember right, I tried playing KotoR but I got bored after choosing dialogue after dialogue without really advancing much in the story.

[Stark]

Titan Quest is sadly massively boring, because the play never really goes anywhere.

If you didn't like KotoR you probably won't like Dragon Age; a lot of Bioware slaves I know got bored and gave up.

[adam_grif]

D2 isn't an RPG.

Yes, it really is. Unless you're trying for some stupid distinction where "Action RPG isn't a real RPG". You have abilities, leveling and questing. The only difference from traditional RPGs is that it has real-time action, which doesn't exclude it from being an RPG.

If you didn't like KotoR you probably won't like Dragon Age; a lot of Bioware slaves I know got bored and gave up.

It's also buggy and very long. It's worth giving it a shot though.

[Stark]

So 'RPG' = 'some stats', now? It's a click-em-up. There's fuck-all relevant narrative and your character is just a skills build.

Saying Diablo has LESS real-time action than 'traditional RPGs' is a very very strange statement.

[Samuel]

Titan's quest gets repetitive where you gather resources to make relics and have to start again at the next difficulty level. Oh, and fighting the final bosses consists of fire and move. I stopped playing the game when I realized it would take me 15 minutes of doing that continuously to win when on the second stage of difficulty against the Titan. Hilariously, the end bosses are not the toughest in the game- that belongs to a Yeti who can paralyze you- and then hit you with an attack that will kill you.

It does have some interesting parts, but the grinding, repetative combat and requirements for gear to prevent exploits (which for some reason would be bad) make it boring.

The interface and menus were tight and organized unlike Din's Curse.

The interface is well done (although they made potions on a delay because otherwise you "might waste them" ) but the game doesn't have anything after that as Stark said. It is all about make a stronger and stronger character, but since you keep on fighting tougher enemies and the rate of experience gain drops it becomes totally pointless.

If I remember right, I tried playing KotoR but I got bored after choosing dialogue after dialogue without really advancing much in the story.

You could just ignore all the sidequests and get off Taris. Of course the story isn't great although it does have an explanation as to why only you can defeat the villian and are on a quest to do so. It has the problem of being horribly unbalanced for character selection though. Also, repair is only useful for getting HK-47 to work- I think your utility droid will always have better stats in it.

The Morrowind gold pack is old but good, but yes, it does benefit greatly from mods especially years after its prime.

I played Oblivian and I don't think I could play Morrowind again. Oblivian may be horribly flawed and need to use mods to be playable, but the fact that you don't spend 90% of the time walking around and can use the map to find where you are going makes invaluable. I quit my first game of Morrowind because I literally could not find the spot on the map the quest needed me to go.

D2 isn't an RPG.

Yes, it really is. Unless you're trying for some stupid distinction where "Action RPG isn't a real RPG". You have abilities, leveling and questing. The only difference from traditional RPGs is that it has real-time action, which doesn't exclude it from being an RPG.

Don't alot of shooters have those features? I got Larva Mortus off steam and it has all those features (well, technically guns instead of abilities), but it isn't an RPG- you don't have any choices in the game, all you do is kill things.

[Stark]

The obvious solution is to play Alpha Protocol.

[adam_grif]

So 'RPG' = 'some stats', now? It's a click-em-up. There's fuck-all relevant narrative and your character is just a skills build.

Ahem.

Game Information

* Platform: PC / Mac
* Genre: Action/RPG
* Release Date: June 29, 2000
* Expansion requires the full version of Diablo II

But I'm sure Stark knows more about Diablo 2's genre than the people who made it.

Diablo II, sequel to the popular game Diablo, is a dark fantasy-themed Action role-playing game in a hack and slash or "dungeon roaming" style. It was released for both Microsoft Windows and Mac OS in 2000 by Blizzard Entertainment. Diablo II was developed by Blizzard North.

Diablo II is a dark fantasy/horror-themed action role-playing game, with elements of the hack and slash and "dungeon roaming" genres. It was released for Windows and Mac OS in 2000 by Blizzard Entertainment, and was developed by Blizzard North. It is the sequel to the 1996 hit PC game, Diablo.

Yeah. I can't wait till this turns into the gaming equivelant of a linguistic prescriptivist telling people how the language should be.

Saying Diablo has LESS real-time action than 'traditional RPGs' is a very very strange statement.

That is strange, who said it?

Don't alot of shooters have those features? I got Larva Mortus off steam and it has all those features (well, technically guns instead of abilities), but it isn't an RPG- you don't have any choices in the game, all you do is kill things.

Yes, and these are rightfully called "RPG elements". The most prominent example is Modern Warfare/2, however the RPG elements are not generally considered significant enough to warrant calling the game an "FPS/RPG", like you would Deus Ex. The reason is that in RPGs, character progression and stat building is the core gameplay. The line is blurry and indistinct, but take it up with the industry, not me.

[Stark]

Are you being droll? How does anything Blizzard marketing say mean jack shit? The phrase 'Action RPG' is the non-branded term for 'Diablo game', it doesn't prove anything.

Unless Bioshock was Shooter 2.0 and Halo was Combat Evolved. After all, the marketing liars developers are always right. Right? Alpha Protocol must be really espionage-y, because it's 'The Espionage RPG'.

Calling class builds in MW2 'RPG features' is so asinine I don't know how you go through life without deciding your IM client is an RPG. Deus Ex is an FPS/RPG now? I hear perspective and mechanics are mutually exclusive somehow?

ITT Adam Grif finally learns that genre identification in the games industry is simply an element of targeted marketing, and these terms have actual meanings.

[adam_grif]

ITT Adam Grif finally learns that genre identification in the games industry is simply an element of targeted marketing, and these terms have actual meanings.

ITT Stark chickens out when it becomes apparent that he's wrong.

Deus Ex is an FPS/RPG now?

Yes, you colossal idiot. Would it make you feel better if I called it an "action roleplaying game in the first person perspective"?

[Stark]

No, it's an RPG that uses a first person perspective. It's not a 'shooter', and the shooting is easily the worst part of the game. Claiming its somehow a mix of two non-exclusive genres is like saying your car is LONG/YELLOW or something. Is Fallout3 a RPG/FPS or ... just an RPG? Is Eye of the Beholder an RPG/FPS? Is Shining in the Darkness a JRPG/FPS/TBS?

Oh sorry I missed you ignoring all my examples to claim victory, because you think developers would a) never lie and are b) more familiar with the meanings of words than others. Sorry, 'action RPG' is just shorthand for 'is like Diablo'.

[CSJM]

A roleplaying game is a game where you play out a role, strangely enough. Action-RPGs, like Diablo and my much-beloved Dungeon Siege series, are not RPGs, they're action games with RPG elements. Meaning, take out the choices in levelling and replace it all with a powerup system a-la "side-scrolling shmup", and you won't see much of a difference - your single goal and modus operandi is still "kill everything that moves". Deus Ex, the original, was rather close to an actual RPG in this regard - you really had choices, you could actually avoid fighting in many places, and get through the game with minimal violence with a proper build and some luck. Therefore, Deus Ex is actually an FPS/RPG, no "elements", even if it's railroading the player most of the way.

[Stark]

According to Adam Grif, RPG = 'has levelling'.

[adam_grif]

No, it's an RPG that uses a first person perspective. It's not a 'shooter', and the shooting is easily the worst part of the game.

So it's not part-shooter because the shooting sucks? Oh boy!

First Person Perspective. Shooting. It is a first person shooter.

Character building. Dialog trees. It is a role playing game.

It is both FPS and RPG, aka FPS/RPG. FPS is a sub genre of "shooter", which is in turn a sub-genre of "action game". Like I said:

action roleplaying game in the first person perspective

But continue this asinine semantic debate.

Claiming its somehow a mix of two non-exclusive genres is like saying your car is LONG/YELLOW or something.

No, it's like calling a movie Drama/Comedy. This isn't rocket science.

because you think developers would a) never lie

Yes, Stark, Blizzard is lying about Diablo 2 being an RPG, as part of their nefarious scheme to make you lose this argument.

and are b) more familiar with the meanings of words than others.

And Stark thinks that game devs don't know what a genre is. It's pretty fucking obvious that Diablo 2 is an Action RPG, which is a sub-genre of RPG, therefore making it an RPG by extension. It's like trying to argue that your car isn't a motor vehicle.

Sorry, 'action RPG' is just shorthand for 'is like Diablo'.

You ARE stupid, aren't you?

This isn't even worth my time, so you can get your education from Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_RPG

Action RPG's have been around since long before Diablo 2, and refer to action game/ RPG hybrids, from Sword of Mana to Mass Effect. Diablolike games are known as "hack and slash", "dungeon crawl", or occasionally "point and click" games.

What do YOU think an RPG is, Stark? Do you need dialogue trees? Do you have to be able to interact with the story? Obviously bullshit, since there's stacks of RPGs that are completely linear and give you no lattitude. Does having a silent protagonist disqualify it from being an RPG? Obviously bullshit again.

Diablo has the dark fantasy story, 100% stat based combat (incl. dicerolls), NPCs you interact with, a persistent world, looting and questing. It's an RPG! You're saying it's not an RPG because... why?

[Vendetta]

So, I hear that genre is some ontological property that defines what videogames really are, rather than a convenient mental pigeonhole that we use to attempt to relate them to other similar games.

Really though, the term RPG more than any other is stretched far too thin in computer gaming, because people insist that it must accomodate both games like Diablo, Fallout, and Final Fantasy, which are actually completely different because although they all contain the core concept of spending points on skills and levels the actual effect of doing so on the way the player interacts with the rest of the game is completely different.

RPG is becoming a nonsense term in computer gaming, so if someone asks you to reccommend "an RPG", you probably want to ask a few more questions about what other games they like to see if there is one that they will enjoy.

[CSJM]

You know, it's perfectly possible to have an Action/RPG title. It's just that Diablo ain't it. Diablo is Action-RPG, a slash-em-up with RPG elements. Action/RPG, a true meld, would be something akin to, maybe, Space Rangers, were they realtime. Actually, "First-Person-Shooter" is a subgenre of "Action", so the currently discussed FPS/RPG also qualifies.

Diablo has many things true RPGs also have. It doesn't have a tiny little thing. Alternatives. It has nothing beyond its combat mechanics. Deus Ex is an RPG because coming through, guns blazing, isn't the only way through the game, and the alternatives aren't there for you to pick (like you would choose between a stealth and an action route in certain titles), they have to be found and sometimes require a certain character build to discover and successfully pull off. Therefore, it rightfully earns its moniker of "FPS/RPG", a first-person shooter that's also an RPG. That's what makes an RPG, an RPG - meaningful, emergent choices. There are other things, too, but this one is probably the defining RPG trait for me. Stats are a close second, but I firmly believe you don't have to have numeric stats to make a good RPG.

[adam_grif]

So, I hear that genre is some ontological property that defines what videogames really are, rather than a convenient mental pigeonhole that we use to attempt to relate them to other similar games.

We know, but the pigeonholes have entry requirements, and if it meets them, it can be considered to be in it. I say "it's an RPG" instead of "It fits the criterion for what would be considered by some to be an RPG, and I agree with this classification" because it's a simpler and nobody cares. Same reason why I say "this game rocks" without prefacing it with "in my opinion..." every single time.

You know, it's perfectly possible to have an Action/RPG title. It's just that Diablo ain't it. Diablo is Action-RPG, a slash-em-up with RPG elements. Action/RPG, a true meld, would be something akin to, maybe, Space Rangers, were they realtime. Actually, "First-Person-Shooter" is a subgenre of "Action", so the currently discussed FPS/RPG also qualifies.

The semantics are getting pretty ridiculous here. "Action game with RPG elements" and "RPG with action elements" are both functionally equivelant, and there's no useful purpose in making a distinction. As a game, Diablo 2 is only "action" in the sense that it is real time, and you click on things to target them. The outcome of the combat is mechanically driven by the same kind of system that drives Pen and Paper RPG games - roll to hit, roll to determine damage etc.

This reliance on Pen and Paper RPG mechanics is why they were originally called RPGs. They certainly have nothing of the freedom that pen and paper RPGs have, and quite often you play "the protagonist", a faceless, genderless, (sometimes) nameless agent that follows along a totally linear path through the story.

If being able to diverge onto different gameplay paths makes something an RPG, then Splinter Cell 3 is one of the greatest RPGs of all time.

[Vendetta]

So, I hear that genre is some ontological property that defines what videogames really are, rather than a convenient mental pigeonhole that we use to attempt to relate them to other similar games.

We know, but the pigeonholes have entry requirements, and if it meets them, it can be considered to be in it. I say "it's an RPG" instead of "It fits the criterion for what would be considered by some to be an RPG, and I agree with this classification" because it's a simpler and nobody cares. Same reason why I say "this game rocks" without prefacing it with "in my opinion..." every single time.

I see you skipped over the bit where I pointed out that the entry requirements for the RPG pigeonhole have been rendered so loose now that the term is basically meaningless anyway.

[adam_grif]

So, I hear that genre is some ontological property that defines what videogames really are, rather than a convenient mental pigeonhole that we use to attempt to relate them to other similar games.

We know, but the pigeonholes have entry requirements, and if it meets them, it can be considered to be in it. I say "it's an RPG" instead of "It fits the criterion for what would be considered by some to be an RPG, and I agree with this classification" because it's a simpler and nobody cares. Same reason why I say "this game rocks" without prefacing it with "in my opinion..." every single time.

I see you skipped over the bit where I pointed out that the entry requirements for the RPG pigeonhole have been rendered so loose now that the term is basically meaningless anyway.

That may or may not be the case, but nevertheless, it still exists, and is the core of this argument.

Hey, lets make up our own arbitrary classifications!

[CSJM]

We don't need to. They already exist.

RPG: Role-playing game. Most commonly, the pen and paper variation.
CRPG: Role-playing game. The computer-assisted variation.
JRPG: CRPG variant, heavily story-driven, predominantly linear with possible branches. Often encourages methods of rapid stat gain.
<Genre>/RPG: A meld of CRPG with a genre. Implies retaining of the RPG mechanics in all applicable gameplay situations.
<Genre> with RPG Elements: A game of the chosen genre, with RPG mechanics applied to several selected gameplay elements.

So, for example, an RTS/RPG game is almost a physical impossibility. Almost. Black&White came close from one tangent, Sacrifice came close from the other tangent. An RTS with RPG elements, however, is nearly the most popular strain of RTS nowadays. Same with Action/RPGs. True ARPGs are few and far between, but there are lots of "with elements" games mislabeled as such.

[Vympel]

The Witcher. And get it quick, its on sale on Steam. Sequel coming out soon.

[Soontir C'boath]

Goddamn people, at least recommend a game while you're arguing. Yes, I would like an RPG where there are consequences and differentiation than the Diabloesque gaming I am bored with.

I should have mentioned it before that I would prefer games that are like WoW/Fallout 1 & 2/Titan Quest/Diablo rather than FPS. It's why although I have Fallout 3, I could never really get into it as it makes me a bit nauseous. Though I'll probably demo them to see if they're good enough to play anyway. Fallout 3 really killed me in the end with its shitting voice acting

The Witcher. And get it quick, its on sale on Steam. Sequel coming out soon.

Looks good. I hope my computer can play it. Demos are awesome.