The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Edward Yee]

Well, that method wouldn't be too particular as to who it kills, which'll be relevant if the HEA wants Michael-lan and company alive... which so far I can imagine being the case. On the other hand, my personal "uh oh" scenario would be if HEA troops gunned down Lemuel for trying to confront Michael-lan, only to realize that they just committed the ultimate in "he's a bastard, but he's OUR bastard"... This is reminding me of our conversation about the "missed opportunity" of Reconstruction... and leaving me wondering whether our circumstances are more lopsidedly 'advantageous' enough to go further.

Of course, leave it to Michael-lan's human Second-Life allies to be a potential wrench in the gears that might need to be, ah... cleared...

Stuart, liking your allusion to one of the issues to be found in Lords of War... that unified command isn't SO unified.

Akalabeth, so far I'm inclined to take Michael-lan's word at face value regarding pantheons, if only because he was in a better position.

[Nematocyst]

I thought that Angel (trying to remember who it was, are you talking about one of the Bowl of Wrath pourers?) seemed to be larger than the rank and file.

As I say, he was an Ophanim. But the normal angels are still too much target for a Starstreak.

[nobody_really]

Excellent update, Stuart. I hate to sound all fanboi, but this chapter in particular had me nearly holding my breath during the scene in the Ultimate Temple. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

It's kind of tough to know how Lemuel said "there is much I wish to discuss with my old friend Michael," which would make all the difference as to how he's going to confront Michael about getting him hooked. Assuming, of course, that Michael and Lemuel get out of this thing alive.

And considering it's at least 750 km to the Temple from where that Chinese scouting party is camped, how far can they see, really? Especially with the cloud cover? I don't imagine it would be possible to see much more than 100 km in, which would be less than a percent of the city's area (2,250,000 sq. km vs. 15,700 sq. km). Oh, well, I guess they figure any independent information is better than relying on foreigners for everything.

[Razor One]

And considering it's at least 750 km to the Temple from where that Chinese scouting party is camped, how far can they see, really? Especially with the cloud cover? I don't imagine it would be possible to see much more than 100 km in, which would be less than a percent of the city's area (2,250,000 sq. km vs. 15,700 sq. km). Oh, well, I guess they figure any independent information is better than relying on foreigners for everything.

AFAIK, the bubble universes are closed universes... like living on the inside of a Dyson Sphere. The "Horizon" curves upwards, not down, allowing you to see much further. Technically if you looked straight up you'd see clear across to the other side of the bubble, barring cloud, diffusion and the blinding light of heaven / hell.

Another excellent chapter Stuart. The public demands more!

If I had to call how this fight manages to get resolved, I reckon it'd be Lemuel portaling in at the last second to assist Michael. It puts him in debt to Lemuel and it gets Yah-yah off the throne. Win-Win.

[Gogyra]

So, just for a sense of scale, about how big is Yahweh? Uriel-sized? 100 feet? 200? Or is that something that's being left intentionally ambiguous?

[Pelranius]

I thought that Angel (trying to remember who it was, are you talking about one of the Bowl of Wrath pourers?) seemed to be larger than the rank and file.

As I say, he was an Ophanim. But the normal angels are still too much target for a Starstreak.

The lowest rank of Angel is about 6 to 8 feet tall, and the next two ranges fall into the ten to fifteen range categories, IIRC. The former would be finished by a Starstreak and the latter would at least be knocked out of the fight by three Starstreak mini-warheads (one pound of high explosives and sharpnel would be pretty dangerous to something even the size of an elephant).

[Guardsman Bass]

But the Aesir had retreated from Earth long ago, back to their own bubble world. Why should they help Michael who had commanded the armies that forced their abandonment of the Earth?

Fascinating. I suspected that some of the Others had their own bubble-universes, but it's good to know that the Aesir did exist.

Were they part of the group of beings that gave Yahweh and Satan enough grief so that their followers got protection in Hell?

[Nematocyst]

The lowest rank of Angel is about 6 to 8 feet tall, and the next two ranges fall into the ten to fifteen range categories, IIRC. The former would be finished by a Starstreak and the latter would at least be knocked out of the fight by three Starstreak mini-warheads (one pound of high explosives and sharpnel would be pretty dangerous to something even the size of an elephant).

This is possible. But the lower ranking Angels that delivered the first bowl weren't Ophanim and they still took 4 aircraft mounted AA missiles (which, I think, are more dangerous than a Starstreak) to drop.

Were they part of the group of beings that gave Yahweh and Satan enough grief so that their followers got protection in Hell?

We found a Spartan and a Samurai in hell. I don't think there's a long walk from them to a Viking, so most likely not, because we would've found the roaming Vikings by now.

[CaptainChewbacca]

We found a Spartan and a Samurai in hell. I don't think there's a long walk from them to a Viking, so most likely not, because we would've found the roaming Vikings by now.

I don't know, it might be hard to find the lost vikings

Good chapter, though I admit I expected the Power of Friendship to come into play for the Michael-Yaweh showdown.

Also, I don't find the chinese seeing the City from 750km away as being that unusual. The walls are HUGE, and the buildings behind are even bigger to the point where its almost like a masonry mountain.

[Akalabeth]

AFAIK, the bubble universes are closed universes... like living on the inside of a Dyson Sphere. The "Horizon" curves upwards, not down, allowing you to see much further. Technically if you looked straight up you'd see clear across to the other side of the bubble, barring cloud, diffusion and the blinding light of heaven / hell.

Stuart said that if you go straight in any direction in the bubble universes you would end up where you started, so it's more complicated than just being on the inside of a sphere, since if you go up you'd end up on the other side instead, and if you go down you would...fall off the universe? It was described as being like a klein bottle. Not sure what that would imply for things like the horizon in practice.

I'm not a mathematician, but an n-sphere (a sphere with n+1 dimensions) should also have the property that travel in a straight line always leads back to the starting location. Note that the surface of a 1-sphere (circle) is 1d and the surface of a 2-sphere is 2d, and travel along the surface in a straight line (well, curved along the surface) satisfies that property. The 'surface' of a 3-sphere is 3d, and should work essentially the same way, but along three dimensions. How the 3d surface that the occupants live upon would be shaped I think could be arbitrary; the horizon could be curved upwards or downwards, without changing the math.

That might also satisfy some of the weirdness with distances that we saw in Hell. Trigonometry changes a bit when the triangle is imposed on a sphere, I imagine it would change even more on a 3-sphere. I think most 4d objects would work too, not just spheres, and since you can only perceive the dimensions along the surface lacking a good theoretical model you'd just need to take lots of measurements to try to account for it.

[Surlethe]

God damn it, Stuart, you fucking cock tease. Write the fucking denouement already!

[LadyTevar]

And the Dominatrix got her whip-crack in.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Its been said before, but I'd have liked to see the captian of the Turner Joy get his wish, but it doesn't look like he's going to. Such a small thing, too, just five minutes.

[nobody_really]

Also, I don't find the chinese seeing the City from 750km away as being that unusual. The walls are HUGE, and the buildings behind are even bigger to the point where its almost like a masonry mountain.

I (or Stuart) didn't say the Chinese were 750 km away from the city, but that they were 750 km away from the Ultimate Temple. I was more doubtful that the air would be clear enough to see very far. On Earth, the maximum distance that could be seen in the atmosphere that I have found is about 400 miles, just going by the diffraction ability of the air molecules. If there's "stuff" (like water vapor or dust or pollution) in the atmosphere it is significantly reduced. I find that the haze near Las Vegas keeps me from seeing much farther than 50 miles, even from the top of Mt. Charleston (12,000 ft). And we just popped a nuke, which has already sent a cloud thick enough to lower the temperature near the Montmartre Club, which can't be all that far from the Ultimate Temple. People were able to see the above ground tests about 100 miles away from the upper floors of the taller of Las Vegas's buildings in the 50's, but Las Vegas was quite a bit smaller then, and not as polluted. The pictures of the clouds taken at the time from Las Vegas that I've seen make them look almost ephemeral.

The walls are huge, about 100 m high (about as tall as a 33 story building) and 50 m wide. The Great Pyramid at Giza is about 150 m high, so I guess calling the palaces masonry mountains, if they are of comparable size, is reasonable.

[Chamale]

Another excellent chapter, Stuart, and another fine choice of music. I noticed a typo in the battle, however:

It was a one-shot tick-pony shot.

Presumably, this was meant to be "a one-trick pony shot", or something like that.

[TheProfessor]

Okay, so... Who should voice Michael if this is ever animated and/or filmed in live action?

I'm thinking Dan Green, or maybe Tennant.

[Pelranius]

The lowest rank of Angel is about 6 to 8 feet tall, and the next two ranges fall into the ten to fifteen range categories, IIRC. The former would be finished by a Starstreak and the latter would at least be knocked out of the fight by three Starstreak mini-warheads (one pound of high explosives and sharpnel would be pretty dangerous to something even the size of an elephant).

This is possible. But the lower ranking Angels that delivered the first bowl weren't Ophanim and they still took 4 aircraft mounted AA missiles (which, I think, are more dangerous than a Starstreak) to drop.

True, but the vast majority of angels that we will have to fight are of the lower orders, I believe.

[declan]

Hey, don't forget the AC-130s! Plus, I get the feeling that the Angels are going to really learn why it's ill-advised to provoke humanity, and not be technologocially superior to them.

Yaa Yaa , meet the angel of death


Declan

[SilverHawk]

This is possible. But the lower ranking Angels that delivered the first bowl weren't Ophanim and they still took 4 aircraft mounted AA missiles (which, I think, are more dangerous than a Starstreak) to drop.

Air-to-Air missiles and SAMs are meant to cut into things with flammable fuel that do most of the work for them. Against flesh they become little more then frag grenades on rockets. (Or razor wire/blade with the continuous rod.)

[CaptainChewbacca]

The walls are huge, about 100 m high (about as tall as a 33 story building) and 50 m wide. The Great Pyramid at Giza is about 150 m high, so I guess calling the palaces masonry mountains, if they are of comparable size, is reasonable.

Remember, the Ultimate Temple is also on a large hill/mountain, and is supposedly visible from every part of the city center. I'd guess the top of the temple is at least 3000 feet above the plain.

[kouchpotato]

Well, it looks like even if Jesus survived and is just a ball of cancer, he's pretty screwed anyhow.

[Edward Yee]

I must admit skepticism to Doctor Zinder's idea that Lemuel and Maion know less science than a seven-year-old, at least if he means American children.

[UnderAGreySky]

Michael makes a comment about "they retreated to their bubble worlds" or something to that effect. Isn't "bubble" world a human theory developed by Dr. Surelethe and others? If so, Michael would not know the precise terminology regarding the theoretical shape of a particular universe.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Michael makes a comment about "they retreated to their bubble worlds" or something to that effect. Isn't "bubble" world a human theory developed by Dr. Surelethe and others? If so, Michael would not know the precise terminology regarding the theoretical shape of a particular universe.

Its obviously round by visual inspection, and self-contained. What would you call it?

[Chris OFarrell]

There was one question Michael needed to know the answer to. That one question would be decisive in the titanic struggle that was now reaching its conclusion. Michael asked it of himself time and time again, his mind searching desperately for the answer. How would the humans handle this situation?

They wouldn't have gotten into the situation in the first place For all the Sun-Tzu Michael CLAIMS he has read, he has clearly not worked out some of the more critical lessons yet.

Nice work Stew. Would have looked to have a wisecrack from our Dominatrix friend to go with the crack of the whip, but we have more chapters to come