The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[GrayAnderson]

But the Aesir had retreated from Earth long ago, back to their own bubble world. Why should they help Michael who had commanded the armies that forced their abandonment of the Earth?

Fascinating. I suspected that some of the Others had their own bubble-universes, but it's good to know that the Aesir did exist.

Were they part of the group of beings that gave Yahweh and Satan enough grief so that their followers got protection in Hell?

And we have a hit! Nice to get confirmation on at least one of the other pantheons, and also (re-)confirmation that they weren't "wiped out" as got suggested in an earlier conversation in here.

Randomly, if the music produced the Aesir, would that be a case of deus ex thiaso (or thasis if we consider there to be multiple groups playing)?

There was one question Michael needed to know the answer to. That one question would be decisive in the titanic struggle that was now reaching its conclusion. Michael asked it of himself time and time again, his mind searching desperately for the answer. How would the humans handle this situation?

They wouldn't have gotten into the situation in the first place For all the Sun-Tzu Michael CLAIMS he has read, he has clearly not worked out some of the more critical lessons yet.

Nice work Stew. Would have looked to have a wisecrack from our Dominatrix friend to go with the crack of the whip, but we have more chapters to come

I don't think Michael expected to have to move yet. He expected to have more time, etc. Nuking the angelic host probably screwed up his timetable.

[UnderAGreySky]

Its obviously round by visual inspection, and self-contained. What would you call it?

The world itself may be round. How does he know the space around it is round too? And by a 'bubble'? Why not a ball or a sphere?

[Simon_Jester]

It's kind of arbitrary, but "we live on the inside of a bubble" is a perfectly reasonable thing for Michael to think, and leads logically to "bubble world."

[GrayAnderson]

It's kind of arbitrary, but "we live on the inside of a bubble" is a perfectly reasonable thing for Michael to think, and leads logically to "bubble world."

And it's also worth noting that if Mikey's seen cocaine, he may well have also seen Coca-Cola.

(And, of course, I'm now thinking of a certain cereal commercial)

[Akalabeth]

It's a story, he's probably not thinking in English at all. I'd call it a translation convention.

[Nematocyst]

Angels' and Demons' actual language (they are apparently the same?) would be a gold mine to a linguist. Apparently our languages are variations of it, and enables them to understand ours with little difficulty.
This could easily prevail where Esperanto failed.

[tortieconspiracy]

Michael makes a comment about "they retreated to their bubble worlds" or something to that effect. Isn't "bubble" world a human theory developed by Dr. Surelethe and others? If so, Michael would not know the precise terminology regarding the theoretical shape of a particular universe.

Not necessarily. Remember Kate Branch? His spy in Dimo(n). He could have gotten the terminology from her, or any other spies he might have managed to recruit.

[Darmalus]

Angels' and Demons' actual language (they are apparently the same?) would be a gold mine to a linguist. Apparently our languages are variations of it, and enables them to understand ours with little difficulty.
This could easily prevail where Esperanto failed.

There is some sort of linguistic "magic" going on in Hell/Heaven. There was that Russian soldier who was assigned to be a liaison to the American forces after he died because he could suddenly understand all languages, even though he could only speak Russian while he was alive. Also the Samurai, the Spartan and the American could all understand each other, even though they were still speaking their native languages.

[Nematocyst]

I bet the understanding comes during the transition between the 1st life and the 2nd; one of the many things not understood of the process.
But I'm talking about the Demons and Angels: beings that never went through that.
Also, that language most likely predates humanity, and may have influenced our languages.

[Edward Yee]

There was one question Michael needed to know the answer to. That one question would be decisive in the titanic struggle that was now reaching its conclusion. Michael asked it of himself time and time again, his mind searching desperately for the answer. How would the humans handle this situation?

They wouldn't have gotten into the situation in the first place For all the Sun-Tzu Michael CLAIMS he has read, he has clearly not worked out some of the more critical lessons yet.

Huh, I read it as "how would the humans react to Michael and friends fighting Yahweh," as opposed to "how would the humans deal with 'having' to overthrow Yahweh because their timetable got pushed up by the Incomparable Legion of Light getting nuked"? I'm still rooting for "cruise missiles go off, everyone dies." Nukes, of course, are a different story...

I will say though re: "getting into the situation in the first place," I think it's his 'political' goals that're forcing him into it (read: he'd much rather be in charge at the end, and humanity killing off the angels would leave him with no power base other than Twilight fans ).

[Gil Hamilton]

Not necessarily. Remember Kate Branch? His spy in Dimo(n). He could have gotten the terminology from her, or any other spies he might have managed to recruit.

That begs the question how she'd know.

The issue with whether or not Michael knows the geometry of the bubble universes can be resolved several ways.
1) He doesn't know the geometry of the bubble 'verses and we are getting a translation from Stuart for what ever they call the pocket universes they are from. He might not actually know that the shape is a bubble, just that they are seperate and distinct from each other.
2) The bubble universes are small enough to measure curvature, thus it could be determined that the world has a curvature at all. This is not immediately obvious, as if a curved space is sufficently large, it is approximately flat for all intents and purposes. Over the course of millenia, they could have figured out that their world is on the inside of a curve, even travelling all the way around it.
3) He has spies in high places and has learned the nature of the universes from them.

[Akalabeth]

I bet the understanding comes during the transition between the 1st life and the 2nd; one of the many things not understood of the process.
But I'm talking about the Demons and Angels: beings that never went through that.
Also, that language most likely predates humanity, and may have influenced our languages.

Memnon was able to basically divine the name of plastic, and I'm pretty sure some other demons were referred to as having a gift with tongues. It could be anything originating from universe 2 that gets the language skills.

Then again neither angels nor demons knew the names of human weaponry initially, so maybe it's not that simple.

EDIT: Hmm. The plastic thing might be an unrelated ability, but he still seems to have some language skills:

Memnon snorted in confusion. What was it? It was hard like metal yet he could divine nothing of the earth from it. No metal, no ore. It had no elemental song within itself, it did not sing, it did not even hum. It was a dead thing this plastic that only told him its name and nothing more.
[...]
Arabic. The language was Arabic. His gift of tongues was perfect as he listened to the monkeys musing and whispering as they examined the remains of his wing brothers.

[Deebles]

I will say though re: "getting into the situation in the first place," I think it's his 'political' goals that're forcing him into it (read: he'd much rather be in charge at the end, and humanity killing off the angels would leave him with no power base other than Twilight fans ).

To be fair... for all Michael's moral ambivalence I don't think his sole reason for not wanting the angels wiped out was so they could be his power base.

[GrayAnderson]

I will say though re: "getting into the situation in the first place," I think it's his 'political' goals that're forcing him into it (read: he'd much rather be in charge at the end, and humanity killing off the angels would leave him with no power base other than Twilight fans ).

To be fair... for all Michael's moral ambivalence I don't think his sole reason for not wanting the angels wiped out was so they could be his power base.

I tend to agree. Michael is no idealist, that's for sure, but I don't think he wants to be a member of a species on the verge of extinction (or irradiated himself).

Of course, given all of the knots he's gone through I did find myself wondering why he didn't just stage a "jailbreak" as soon as Hell fell and bring himself and as many of his followers who would come through to Earth, complete with detailed data on where the palace was, etc....and then, I remembered Rudolf Hess.

[Edward Yee]

Of course, given all of the knots he's gone through I did find myself wondering why he didn't just stage a "jailbreak" as soon as Hell fell and bring himself and as many of his followers who would come through to Earth, complete with detailed data on where the palace was, etc....and then, I remembered Rudolf Hess.

Had to look Hess up, but that makes perfect sense, even if Michael wasn't aware of Hess... and it'd be bad for morale to be unable to bring them all, opening up the left-behinds to Yahweh's wrath (see what I did there lol).

[EdBecerra]

I thought that Angel (trying to remember who it was, are you talking about one of the Bowl of Wrath pourers?) seemed to be larger than the rank and file.

As I say, he was an Ophanim. But the normal angels are still too much target for a Starstreak.

Perhaps a Megatron instead?

Ed.

[GrayAnderson]

Random aside, but accidentally getting onto one of the older pages made me think of a rather amusing moment when I heard that some priest had referred to the "Commonwealth of Heaven" (as in "Commonwealth of Massachusetts") and the ensuing bit of "This guy doesn't get it." I think we were wondering if he decided sleep through theology or something.

[Night_stalker]

Angels' and Demons' actual language (they are apparently the same?) would be a gold mine to a linguist. Apparently our languages are variations of it, and enables them to understand ours with little difficulty.
This could easily prevail where Esperanto failed.

Well, Baldricks would make VERY good bodyguards. Think about it, they can understand I believe all human languages, are loyal (relatively) to their boss, and are phsysically capable of ripping apart a normal human unarmed.

[Jamesfirecat]

Angels' and Demons' actual language (they are apparently the same?) would be a gold mine to a linguist. Apparently our languages are variations of it, and enables them to understand ours with little difficulty.
This could easily prevail where Esperanto failed.

Well, Baldricks would make VERY good bodyguards. Think about it, they can understand I believe all human languages, are loyal (relatively) to their boss, and are phsysically capable of ripping apart a normal human unarmed.

Don't forget the part where they're so large the person who hired them can literally hide behind them in case of a firefight....

[Erra]

Well, Baldricks would make VERY good bodyguards. Think about it, they can understand I believe all human languages, are loyal (relatively) to their boss, and are phsysically capable of ripping apart a normal human unarmed.

Speaking of this, wouldn't we end up see a lot of daemons working in the criminal underground? It's an enviroment that is fairly similar to what they're used to and crime lords would be pretty glad to have that kind of muscle behind them, not to mention portal capabilities.

Actually, if I was living in TSW universe, I would start a business of portal blocking infrastructure. I'm sure most government offices, banks, and many others would be quite interested in making sure nobody can portal in willy nilly.

[Deebles]

Actually, if I was living in TSW universe, I would start a business of portal blocking infrastructure. I'm sure most government offices, banks, and many others would be quite interested in making sure nobody can portal in willy nilly.

For that matter, how do you block a portal? I don't recall this being covered so far...

[impatrick4life]

Actually, if I was living in TSW universe, I would start a business of portal blocking infrastructure. I'm sure most government offices, banks, and many others would be quite interested in making sure nobody can portal in willy nilly.

For that matter, how do you block a portal? I don't recall this being covered so far...

Simple, I'd think. Just put a decently thick layer of tin foil in the floors and walls, and then for the windows just replace them with military-style gold foil-tinted windows (albeit with tin/aluminum instead of gold for expense reasons).

[Gogyra]

Actually, if I was living in TSW universe, I would start a business of portal blocking infrastructure. I'm sure most government offices, banks, and many others would be quite interested in making sure nobody can portal in willy nilly.

For that matter, how do you block a portal? I don't recall this being covered so far...

Simple, I'd think. Just put a decently thick layer of tin foil in the floors and walls, and then for the windows just replace them with military-style gold foil-tinted windows (albeit with tin/aluminum instead of gold for expense reasons).

The portal punches through from another dimension. Your approach is equivalent to trying to keep out rain by building a wall.

[Pelranius]

Speaking of this, wouldn't we end up see a lot of daemons working in the criminal underground? It's an enviroment that is fairly similar to what they're used to and crime lords would be pretty glad to have that kind of muscle behind them, not to mention portal capabilities.

Actually, if I was living in TSW universe, I would start a business of portal blocking infrastructure. I'm sure most government offices, banks, and many others would be quite interested in making sure nobody can portal in willy nilly.

The problem with crooks using Baldricks is that demons are pretty noticeable because of their size, and would be a magnet for not just law enforcement but also military and intelligence personnel to take an interest in one's activities and whereabouts. Breaking into the local Bank of America and running out with a few million in cash looks a lot less attractive when the CIA starts hunting you with MQ-1s and turns on their portal tracking equipment.

[impatrick4life]

For that matter, how do you block a portal? I don't recall this being covered so far...

Simple, I'd think. Just put a decently thick layer of tin foil in the floors and walls, and then for the windows just replace them with military-style gold foil-tinted windows (albeit with tin/aluminum instead of gold for expense reasons).

The portal punches through from another dimension. Your approach is equivalent to trying to keep out rain by building a wall.

Then explain how tin foil hats work. The nephilim are still being hit from another dimension.