Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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Kanastrous
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Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

Post by Kanastrous »

Considering the figures involved, maybe it's not that surprising:
NYT wrote: LOS ALTOS, Calif. — The housing bust that began among the working class in remote subdivisions and quickly progressed to the suburban middle class is striking the upper class in privileged enclaves like this one in Silicon Valley.

Whether it is their residence, a second home or a house bought as an investment, the rich have stopped paying the mortgage at a rate that greatly exceeds the rest of the population.

More than one in seven homeowners with loans in excess of a million dollars is seriously delinquent, according to data compiled for The New York Times by the real estate analytics firm CoreLogic.

By contrast, homeowners with less lavish housing are much more likely to keep writing checks to their lender. About one in 12 mortgages below the million-dollar mark is delinquent.

Though it is hard to prove, the CoreLogic data suggest that many of the well-to-do are purposely dumping their financially draining properties, just as they would any sour investment.

“The rich are different: they are more ruthless,” said Sam Khater, CoreLogic’s senior economist.

Five properties here in Los Altos were scheduled for foreclosure auctions in a recent issue of The Los Altos Town Crier, the weekly newspaper where local legal notices are posted. Four have unpaid mortgage debt of more than $1 million, with the highest amount $2.8 million.

Not so long ago, said Chris Redden, the paper’s advertising services director, “it was a surprise if we had one foreclosure a month.”

The sheriff in Cook County, Ill., is increasingly in demand to evict foreclosed owners in the upscale suburbs to the north and west of Chicago — like Wilmette, La Grange and Glencoe. The occupants are always gone by the time a deputy gets there, a spokesman said, but just barely.

In Las Vegas, Ken Lowman, a longtime agent for luxury properties, said four of the 11 sales he brokered in June were distressed properties.

“I’ve never seen the wealthy hit like this before,” Mr. Lowman said. “They made their plans based on the best of all possible scenarios — that their incomes would continue to grow, that real estate would never drop. Not many had a plan B.”

The defaulting owners, he said, often remain as long as they can. “They’re in denial,” he said.

Here in Los Altos, where the median home price of $1.5 million makes it one of the most exclusive towns in the country, several houses scheduled for auction were still occupied this week. The people who answered the door were reluctant to explain their circumstances in any detail.

At one house, where the lender was owed $1.3 million, there was a couch out front wrapped in plastic. A woman said she and her husband had lost their jobs and were moving in with relatives. At another house, the family said they were renters. A third family, whose mortgage is $1.6 million, said they would be moving this weekend.

At a vacant house with a pool, where the lender was seeking $1.27 million, a raft and a water gun lay abandoned on the entryway floor.

Lenders are fearful that many of the 11 million or so homeowners who owe more than their house is worth will walk away from them, especially if the real estate market begins to weaken again. The so-called strategic defaults have become a matter of intense debate in recent months.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two quasi-governmental mortgage finance companies that own most of the mortgages in America with a value of less than $500,000, are alternately pleading with distressed homeowners not to be bad citizens and brandishing a stick at them.

In a recent column on Freddie Mac’s Web site, the company’s executive vice president, Don Bisenius, acknowledged that walking away “might well be a good decision for certain borrowers” but argues that those who do it are trashing their communities.

The CoreLogic data suggest that the rich do not seem to have concerns about the civic good uppermost in their mind, especially when it comes to investment and second homes. Nor do they appear to be particularly worried about being sued by their lender or frozen out of future loans by Fannie Mae, possible consequences of default.

The delinquency rate on investment homes where the original mortgage was more than $1 million is now 23 percent. For cheaper investment homes, it is about 10 percent.

With second homes, the delinquency rate for both types of owners was rising in concert until the stock market crashed in September 2008. That sent the percentage of troubled million-dollar loans spiraling up much faster than the smaller loans.

“Those with high net worth have other resources to lean on if they get in trouble,” said Mr. Khater, the analyst. “If they’re going delinquent faster than anyone else, that tells me they are doing so willingly.”

Willingly, but not necessarily publicly. The rapper Chamillionaire is a plain-talking exception. He recently walked away from a $2 million house he bought in Houston in 2006.

“I just decided to let it go, give it back to the bank,” he told the celebrity gossip TV show “TMZ.” “I just didn’t feel like it was a good investment.”

The rich and successful often come naturally to this sort of attitude, said Brent T. White, a law professor at the University of Arizona who has studied strategic defaults.

“They may be less susceptible to the shame and fear-mongering used by the government and the mortgage banking industry to keep underwater homeowners from acting in their financial best interest,” Mr. White said.

The CoreLogic data measures serious delinquencies, which means the borrower has missed at least three payments in a row. At that point, lenders traditionally file a notice of default and the house enters the official foreclosure process.

In the current environment, however, notices of default are down for all types of loans as lenders work with owners in various modification programs. Even so, owners in some of the more expensive neighborhoods in and around San Francisco are beginning to head for the exit, according to data compiled by MDA DataQuick.

In Los Altos, Los Altos Hills and the most expensive neighborhood in adjoining Mountain View, defaults in the first five months of this year edged up to 16, from 15 in the same period in 2009 and four in 2008.

The East Bay suburb of Orinda had eight notices of default for million-dollar properties, up from five in the same period last year. On Nob Hill in San Francisco, there were four, up from one. The Marina neighborhood had four, up from two.

The vast majority of owners in these upscale communities are still paying the mortgage, of course. But they appear to be cutting back in other ways. The once-thriving Los Altos downtown is pocked with more than a dozen empty storefronts in a six-block stretch.

But this is still Silicon Valley, where failure can always be considered a prelude to success.

In the middle of a workday, one troubled homeowner here leaned over his laptop at the kitchen table, trying to maneuver his way out from under his debt and figure out the next big thing.

His five-bedroom house, drained of hundreds of thousands of dollars of equity over the last 13 years, is scheduled for auction July 20. Nine months ago, after his latest business (he has had several) failed in what he called “the global meltdown,” the man, a technology entrepreneur, said he quit making his $9,000 monthly payments.

“I’m going to be downsizing,” he said.

The man spoke on the condition of anonymity because, he said, he did not want his current problems to interfere with his coming reinvention. “I’m a businessman,” he explained. “I have to be upbeat.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38158763/ns ... al_estate/

I think it's true that it's the difference between viewing your house as a home versus viewing it as just another investment. I know that as soon as we acquired a second home, suddenly the romance of property ownership drained right away and it became a business proposition.
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Jaevric
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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Personal Anecdote(s) Alert!

In my experience working in Foreclosure Prevention for a mortgage company, it's also a matter of the wealthy having other options. People making $30,000 - $40,000/yr and barely making ends meet don't see that they can afford to lose their home -- "Where would I go?" If you're lower income and lose your house, it's hard to even find an apartment willing to rent to you; and for families with low income and a lot of kids, it's even worse. But people in higher-end properties, as the guy in the article puts it, "downsize." There is also, and again this is just my impression, the fact that you can get a damned nice house in a lot of areas now for a lot less than you could a few years ago. I've had several people tell me that they don't care if we foreclose on their property for not paying, they're just going to buy the house next door/down the street for a third of what they owe on their own property and move. It's also been my experience that owners of higher-value properties are an absolute pain in the ass to negotiate with because they don't feel like they're stuck in the property and if they don't get everything they want they'll walk.

Wealthier homeowners are also a lot more likely to know various tricks to get mortgage companies to leave them alone, or be able to hire attorneys that can tell them the tricks -- "cease and desist" letters to prevent collections efforts and suchlike. I've had a number of cases where a homeowner (often still able to afford the home based on the financials they provide when they speak with me) tell me that if we don't write off a significant chunk of what they owe the company (never happens), lower the interest rate they're paying, etc, they'll send in a Cease & Desist letter and then live in the house until foreclosure takes place. In some areas that can be anywhere from 6 months to a year after the foreclosure process starts.

My absolute (least) favorite experience was doing a modification (reduced interest rate, brought account up to date) on a high-end property that was about to foreclose after receiving no payments for the prior 9 months from the homeowner, only for the homeowner to STILL not make any payments on the property after the account was brought current and the foreclosure stopped. As he explained it, "Now it'll be another year before I lose my house, and it's not costing me a dime." He'd also stopped paying his property taxes & homeowner's insurance because the mortgage company will pick taxes up to avoid a tax sale. The guy was well able to afford the property before and after the modification; he just figured it was in his best interests to not make payments and drag the process out as long as possible. We got a "Cease and Desist" letter from his attorney and couldn't even make collections calls. He'll get a sternly-worded letter occasionally reminding him he's not paying us and letting him know when the property will go to sale, and chances are pretty good he'll declare bankruptcy a month or two before the sale date to try to drag the process out further.
Kanastrous
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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Jaevric wrote:It's also been my experience that owners of higher-value properties are an absolute pain in the ass to negotiate with because they don't feel like they're stuck in the property and if they don't get everything they want they'll walk.
Forgive the digression but I have found that really one is best served by approaching every negotiation in this way. YMMV.

I wonder if the part about the 'wealthier homeowners knowing the tricks' is really a matter of wealthy or just a matter of responsible. For my part I am alas not wealthy but I for damn sure educate myself as thoroughly as possible when it comes to major stuff like property acquisition. The information is out there for non-wealthy people too, if they just bother to learn it. And in a nation reasonably well-provided with public libraries and internet connectivity it's hard to sympathize with someone who would enter into something so major as a real-estate buy without bothering to read up on the matter.

I feel for you in that line of work, though. I consider meeting my obligations as best I can to be a matter of personal honor. But at the same time I would never imagine granting a bank the kind of moral consideration I grant a human being.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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Kanastrous wrote: I think it's true that it's the difference between viewing your house as a home versus viewing it as just another investment. I know that as soon as we acquired a second home, suddenly the romance of property ownership drained right away and it became a business proposition.
Bluntly, the banks just don't enjoy being on the other side of business like decisions. They lent to individuals in often non-recourse states (California is one) and are surprised when some of those individuals don't throw good money after bad. If a CEO made a similar move to dump a subsidiary which had accumulated massive amounts of non-recourse debt (think of BP North America right now), they'd likely get a bonus and a bump in the share price.

Also, just because someone has a massively expensive property doesn't mean they were ever rich, or remain rich in a net asset sense. During my public practice stint, I saw more than a few "ultra successful" people who had truly pitiful investments outside of their business as they spent every dime. So if the business drops but their cash flow requirements don't, they can't pay all of their bills.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

Post by Jaevric »

Kanastrous wrote:
Jaevric wrote:It's also been my experience that owners of higher-value properties are an absolute pain in the ass to negotiate with because they don't feel like they're stuck in the property and if they don't get everything they want they'll walk.
Forgive the digression but I have found that really one is best served by approaching every negotiation in this way. YMMV.

I wonder if the part about the 'wealthier homeowners knowing the tricks' is really a matter of wealthy or just a matter of responsible. For my part I am alas not wealthy but I for damn sure educate myself as thoroughly as possible when it comes to major stuff like property acquisition. The information is out there for non-wealthy people too, if they just bother to learn it. And in a nation reasonably well-provided with public libraries and internet connectivity it's hard to sympathize with someone who would enter into something so major as a real-estate buy without bothering to read up on the matter.

I feel for you in that line of work, though. I consider meeting my obligations as best I can to be a matter of personal honor. But at the same time I would never imagine granting a bank the kind of moral consideration I grant a human being.
Heh, wasn't what I wanted to do for my first job out of college either, but under the current circumstances there's no such thing as a "bad job." And it's certainly been, ah, educational. And occasionally provides me with really entertaining stories (names and personal information suitably excised of course).

As far as the negotiations issue, I'd have to agree with you when it comes to the initial contract, but when one party is basically in violation of a prior agreement I lose a lot of my sympathy for the "hardass negotiator" approach. Of course, I'm biased as hell -- my job is to get the best deal possible for my employer, with the caveat that "screw the customer" is *not* the best deal possible because if I screw the customer the customer is not going to be able to pay after the negotiations.

You're also probably right that it is less a matter of "wealthy," though I'd hesitate to use the term "responsible" to describe a lot of the people I deal with, even the better-off. Educated might be a better term. Once again, though, there's a certain degree of professional bias (and personal cynicism) at work. Of course, we may also be working with different definitions of wealthy; I've read your home purchase thread in off-topic (congratulations) and I'd consider someone buying a property at that price to be at least relatively wealthy. And it's definitely been my experience that the higher the home value the more likely the person I'm dealing with is to have made the effort to become educated as to their options.

*Edit*

Let me add, as a caveat, that I don't consider the borrower I'm dealing with being educated to be a bad thing (though occasionally I find myself frustrated with the ones who are educated enough to *think* they know what they're talking about when they really don't). Rather, "educated and dishonest" is a bad thing. Believe me, I (and my employer) understand the decision to walk away from the house. We're willing to work with that; intentionally setting out to cost the bank as much money as possible before walking away from the house is where the problems start from our standpoint.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

Post by LaCroix »

Just for people who might not be familiar with the American mortgage system.

It sounds like the people could just hand over the keys to the bank and walk away, and everything else is the bank's problem. Is there no liability or charges that are levied (fraud, for instance, if the house owner just decides to not pay anymore, although he could?).
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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LaCroix wrote:Just for people who might not be familiar with the American mortgage system.

It sounds like the people could just hand over the keys to the bank and walk away, and everything else is the bank's problem. Is there no liability or charges that are levied (fraud, for instance, if the house owner just decides to not pay anymore, although he could?).
Well, there's an approval process for "hand over the keys and walk away," people can't just mail in their house keys and move out without talking to the mortgage company first. Actually, they *can* but it won't do them any good. If nothing else, we want to confirm the property is in good condition before we agree to take it back "with no hard feelings." However, my employer often *pays* people to hand us the keys and walk away if it's obvious they can't afford the property and there's nothing we can do that will change that, or in cases where we can get the payment down to something the borrower can pay but not down to something the borrower is willing to pay. It's usually not a tremendous sum of money, but it's often in the company's best interests to pay someone to give up the house than go through the entire foreclosure process. It's also better on the borrower's credit, and they get some cash up-front to help with the move, so everyone benefits somewhat. Since foreclosure times vary from state to state, of course, someone getting foreclosed on in California or Illinois is going to be offered more money to hand over the property than someone getting foreclosed on in Texas.

In terms of fraud or liability charges, in some states it's theoretically possible for a mortgage company to go after a borrower for the difference between the property value of a house and what the borrower owes after a foreclosure. Realistically, I've never heard of it being done in my office. Mortgage companies aren't exactly popular in the court system (or anywhere else), and to be blunt, no bank wants a newspaper article detailing how the bank foreclosed on someone's house then had the "victim's" wages garnished to finish collecting. There's also the fact that *if* the mortgage company tries to do something like that, chances are the person is going to declare bankruptcy and the bank has wasted a lot of money for nothing.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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My understanding is that the worst you'll experience is a big hit to your credit rating, making it more difficult (in this climate well-nigh impossible) for you to borrow for most any purpose, for the next seven years (hooray for Levitical Law...)

You don't even have to 'hand over' the keys. The expression 'jingle mail' was coined to describe dropping the house keys in an envelope and mailing them to the note holder (presumably postage-due).

*edit* was writing this while the above ^ was posted...

*edit again* when setting up purchase of the new place I made certain with the broker and my accountant that, should we get really financially slammed somehow and can't keep up payments on both properties, we can ditch the more expensive one, accept the credit-rating hit, and just move back into the first place. Not that we want anything like that to happen (it would mean loss of the deposit and whatever payments were made to date), but one has to cover all bases...
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Post by LaCroix »

American mortgages are much friendlier than their European counterpart, I must say. If I had problem with mine, they would take the house, sell it to the highest bidder, and I would be still stuck with the rest of the credit due, and the cost of selling the property on top. If no one bought it, I would still have to continue paying until they can sell it. They would file and get their hands directly on my wage, leaving me only the legal minimum amount, and some banks would go even further.

I could get out of this by declaring bankruptcy, but this would mean living on absolute minimum money for the next seven years, and I could only do this if the court decides that I am not able to pay back the remaining amount with my current income. This possibility has only been created a few years ago, before it was a stuck-for-life deal...
A minute's thought suggests that the very idea of this is stupid. A more detailed examination raises the possibility that it might be an answer to the question "how could the Germans win the war after the US gets involved?" - Captain Seafort, in a thread proposing a 1942 'D-Day' in Quiberon Bay

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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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For rich people or those who know the way around the system, the home mortgage is just like anything else that involves money; it's just business. They look at the costs & benefits and if the costs are too high for what they get out of it, they're gonna dump it like a hot potato and milk it for every last cent they can get. It's a business decision.

Most people will get emotionally attached to their homes and do everything they can to keep paying their mortgages even when it's not in the best interest to do so. If you've lost your job and you're underwater by $300k, chances are you're a lot better off defaulting. You collect your unemployment cheques and save every last penny while living in the house for free for however long it takes for the bank to foreclose, and by the time they get around to throwing you out which might be over a year later you'll have enough saved up to rent a place somewhere.

Problem is when you get emotional with money you generally end up going broke.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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For rich people or those who know the way around the system, the home mortgage is just like anything else that involves money; it's just business. They look at the costs & benefits and if the costs are too high for what they get out of it, they're gonna dump it like a hot potato and milk it for every last cent they can get. It's a business decision.
Really this is ideally how everyone would approach this kind of thing, so far as is possible in light of their individual financial positions.
Jaevric wrote:You're also probably right that it is less a matter of "wealthy," though I'd hesitate to use the term "responsible" to describe a lot of the people I deal with, even the better-off. Educated might be a better term.
Well, when doing a deal of any magnitude at all, you have a responsibility to educate yourself regarding what you are doing.

I don't really believe that there is any way to remove personal responsibility from the mix. If you have the right to enter into an agreement - and we're pretty generous with that kind of rights - then you also bear full responsibility for handling your end competently. I didn't know what I was doing may be an explanation, but it's not an excuse.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

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LaCroix wrote:American mortgages are much friendlier than their European counterpart, I must say. If I had problem with mine, they would take the house, sell it to the highest bidder, and I would be still stuck with the rest of the credit due, and the cost of selling the property on top. If no one bought it, I would still have to continue paying until they can sell it. They would file and get their hands directly on my wage, leaving me only the legal minimum amount, and some banks would go even further.

I could get out of this by declaring bankruptcy, but this would mean living on absolute minimum money for the next seven years, and I could only do this if the court decides that I am not able to pay back the remaining amount with my current income. This possibility has only been created a few years ago, before it was a stuck-for-life deal...
Same here, more or less. You couldn't just get out of the mortgage like that, the banks would first assrape you in court and then the authorities would sodomize you for them some more, no ifs, buts or maybes. You'd end up also having to pay all associated court costs and other costs for the lender as well as getting sent to prison or fined through the nose on the criminal charges side.

I really don't recommend trying that shit in Europe.
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Re: Biggest Mortgage Defaulters Are...Wealthy!

Post by Kanastrous »

...and all this in light of the fact that at present US bankruptcy laws have become much tougher for a person wanting to declare, than they used to be.
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