Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

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Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Sidewinder »

Recent issues of Star Trek Magazine detail the timeline between 2387 (destruction of Romulus and Remus, as portrayed in the 2009 film) and 2409 (setting of Star Trek Online). They describe the Klingons withdrawing from the Khitomer Accords, civil war and political assassinations in the former Romulan Star Empire, and other events intended to keep the various Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers at war with one another- all manipulated by the Iconians, a race with ZERO appearances in the TV series and films!
Memory Alpha wrote:The storyline is based on Species 8472, who have identified themselves as the "Undine", infiltrating many of the high ranking personnel amongst the Alpha Quadrant powers. The Federation does its utmost to preserve peace in both Alpha and Beta Quadrants, but ultimately fails as open war erupts between The United Federation of Planets, the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Star Empire, the True Cardassian Way, and the Dominion.

The Klingon Empire uses the chaos brought about by the destruction of the Romulan and Reman homeworlds to expand their territory. As the Klingons progress, the chairman of the high council is attacked by three aliens. After defeating them, J'mpok, the chairman, interrogates them. The aliens are the Undine, and reveal that they were attempting to take control of the Klingon Empire by killing him. This incident brings about open war between the Klingon Empire and Species 8472. Worf asks the Federation for assistance, but when he is rebuffed, he cuts all ties to the Federation. As more Undine are interrogated, they learn of the infiltrations of the Gorn Hegemony and Orion Syndicate. After defeating the Gorn, the Gorn become a member of the Klingon Empire. Afterwards, the Klingons and Gorn engage the Orions, who have hired the Nausicaans for assistance. When the Orions surrender, the Nausicaans do as well. The Federation, unable to keep the peace with the now-aggressive Klingon Empire, begins preparations for war. War is declared between the two powers not too long after after Klingons blockade a Federation planet that is, by sudden declaration, a planet of the Klingon Empire.

On the other side of the Quadarant, the Romulans now want revenge for the loss of both Romulus and Remus. They begin to build subspace weapons and mass produce Scimitar-class ships. In this time, 2 praetors have to power since the destruction of the worlds. One, an ex-Admiral, makes weapons like the aforementioned subspace weapons and "crushing the Federation" a top priority for the Romulan Star Empire. In her reign, peace is lost between the Federation and Romulan Star Empire, but war is not declared. War comes under the second Praetor, an exiled Romulan who journeyed to the Delta Quadrant and brought the Hirogen back with her. Because of this, the Hirogen, under the promise of "free hunt," are allied with the Romulan Star Empire.

Hop across the galaxy to Cardassian space, and the Cardassian Union is still in ruin after the Dominion War. Still trying to recover, the new Cardassian Union and Federation are very close allies now. In this alliance, the Federation provides military defense while the new Cardassian Union reforms under a democratic-like system, similar to what the Federation has. However, a movement has begun to return the Cardassian Union to its former state as a major military power in the Quadrant. This movement, called the True Cardassian Way, spreads throughout Cardassian space. This new faction is very desperate to a "return to the old ways," as they go as far as to recruit the newly formed Terran Federation, formerly the Terran Empire, of the parallel universe to aid in their conquest. Another aid to the True Way comes from the ex-allies from the Dominion War, the Dominion themselves, namely the Jem'Hadar. There are also many sightings of Founders and Vorta in this region of space. While the last major power, the Breen, is no where to be found, it is theorized that they will be placed in the game at a later date.
The most recent issue claims the Iconians tricked the Borg into invading Undine (Species 8472) space, the Romulans to somehow make a star explode, the Vulcans to refuse to provide "red matter" that could save Romulus and Remus from destruction (through Undine infiltrators on Vulcan Science Council)... In short, turn Star Trek into Warhammer 40,000.

I'll be first to admit I want more action in the series, but this is ridiculous! It takes the optimistic message, "A dream that became a reality and spread throughout the stars," and replaces it with "In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war."
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

Yeah. That sounds awful. The worse part is that you could have quite a number of interesting missions that stress diplomacy and exploration and doesn't require space battles every day.

EDIT: though with an MMO, I guess people just want to fight and have interesting combat
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Nephtys »

Stofsk wrote:Yeah. That sounds awful. The worse part is that you could have quite a number of interesting missions that stress diplomacy and exploration and doesn't require space battles every day.

EDIT: though with an MMO, I guess people just want to fight and have interesting combat
Good diplomacy requires the ability to think.

STO players do not possess this.

I made a character under a two-week demo key. Captain Suzy S. Scandalbottom of the USS Halliburton (Miranda Class), later the USS Quagmire (Nova Class). The space combat was kinda fun, but every ground mission was annoying and pointless. The most diplomatic mission I had was one where I had to solve a worker strike on a mining planet. Naturally, this means running around in a series of fetch-quests, until I click all the dialogue options available. Wow! What riveting diplomacy.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

I suppose the problem is they made it too much of a 'Feds vs EVERYONE ELSE' affair, when it might have been way more interesting to have multiple playable factions. Like if you want to be a Klingon, and make your own guild - only it's not called a guild it's called a Clan. Or House. House of This or That.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Sidewinder »

The Star Trek Online Wiki has the chronology, as published in Star Trek Magazine and posted on the official website (link).
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Uraniun235 »

It's not at all surprising, unfortunately. What's frequently considered the best Trek series? Deep Space Nine - because it had the Dominion War. What's the biggest regret most Trekkies had about Enterprise? It never got to the Romulan War. What's the most popular episode of TNG? The one with the alternate timeline where the Federation is at war with the Klingons. What's the most popular movie? The one where Captain Picard uses trigger guards to defeat the Borg.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

Uraniun235 wrote:It's not at all surprising, unfortunately. What's frequently considered the best Trek series? Deep Space Nine - because it had the Dominion War. What's the biggest regret most Trekkies had about Enterprise? It never got to the Romulan War. What's the most popular episode of TNG? The one with the alternate timeline where the Federation is at war with the Klingons. What's the most popular movie? The one where Captain Picard uses trigger guards to defeat the Borg.
Not that I want to bust your balls uraniun, but what do you base the above on? How many polls have there been of trekkies through the years who have said this or that with regards to what their favourite episodes/series were?

I always thought TOS and TNG were the most popular Trek shows, and DS9, VOY and ENT come a distant, distant third. As it should be IMO.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Uraniun235 »

Admittedly, my perspective is a bit skewed - I'm going off what I feel like I see on internet forums, where people usually jizz out over the Dominion War and lament that we never saw the Romulan War. You're probably right that the general public is (rightfully) more favorable towards TNG or TOS. But then, I bet the STO devs aren't developing towards the general public.


Yesterday's Enterprise at least actually does get consistently ranked as best or near-best of TNG.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

That's because it was an awesome story. ;)
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by OmegaChief »

Wouldn't be the first time some executives looked at teh avalable data and drew the wrong conclusions about what made it popular
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by adam_grif »

all manipulated by the Iconians, a race with ZERO appearances in the TV series and films!
Iconians you say?

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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Uraniun235 »

Stofsk wrote:That's because it was an awesome story. ;)
I like it a lot and the presentation is generally excellent, even if the battle doesn't seem to quite live up to the script (but I could see that being a result of time constraints more than anything else). Yar and Castillo doesn't work quite as well for me, although at the same time I guess they needed a bit more exposition on how much the alternate timeline was different. I love the dialogue between Picard and Garrett, and I definitely love Picard hopping over the rail and wringing one or two last phaser blasts out of the dying Enterprise-D.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

Attention all hands. As you know, we could outrun the Klingons, but we must protect the Enterprise-C until she enters the temporal rift. And we must succeed. Let's make sure history never forgets the name... 'Enterprise'.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Stofsk wrote: I always thought TOS and TNG were the most popular Trek shows, and DS9, VOY and ENT come a distant, distant third. As it should be IMO.
That's most likely correct. Many people, including me, who like DS9 do so because it tried to break the mold, and hell, did VOY and ENT prove that the mold needed breaking. In fact the mold should have been thrown away. There was no life left in the original ST premise after TNG, but they tried to milk the franchise anyways. In the final analysis, despite some okay episodes, the only good things that came out of VOY and ENT are Chuck's hilarious reviews and the fact that now we can respect TOS and TNG even more, with their flaws and all, which they surely did not lack.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

I don't think Voyager or even Enterprise showed there was no life left. Look at Red's Voyager rewrite in fanfics to see that the underlying premise is valid and actually good, if done right. It's just that star trek has been handled abysmally by the PTB in Paramount. As much as last year's movie was flawed, it had a lot of good things going for it and I hope it's rebooted the franchise to the point where it doesn't suck anymore.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by RedImperator »

Well, that's the thing, though. For Voyager or Enterprise to work, they would have had to break away from the TOS/TNG mold. Voyager does actually set itself up nicely for the alien/anomaly-of-the-week, but the ship's isolation and the situation with the two crews means how you deal with those aliens-of-the-week is going to be very different from how TOS/TNG handled it. Enterprise can have the logistics base and the happy family crew, but there the alien/anomaly of the week doesn't work nearly as well, because you have to explain why Kirk and Picard never heard of them.

ENT was set up for tales of political intrigue and first contacts with familiar faces from later series and was probably utterly beyond the talents of the Trek creative team by that point. VOY I honestly don't know what the hell happened, other than that Rick Berman was dead set against changing the formula that worked for TNG even when it obviously wasn't working for Voyager.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

i agree with everything you wrote

Incidentally, when are you gonna update the Voyager fanfic? :)
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Coyote »

Wow, this sounds like a cheap way to stitch together everything possible. Well, except they left out the Tholians. Give them time, I guess.

How cheap. And in the circumstances given, the Federation, Romulans and Borg would be allies of convenience even if they don't really like each other all that much.

As to DS9, I think the biggest reason people liked it was because it was very critical of the Federation and showed the audience that it wasn't the sugary-sweet empire that everyone pretended it was; the Federation was flawed and DS9 revealed that. I liked that.

Nephtys's description of the Star Trek MMORPG is about what I expected of such a thing. Diplomacy and exploration only gets you so far; people want action and heroism.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

The thing that annoys me the most is that it's a very pretty game, and the brief play I did convinced me space combat is a lot of fun.

So why the fuck can't we get some new games for Star Trek? StarFleet Command is really really fun, it's got a great 'you're in the captain's chair' feel, but it's in an AU based on StarFleet Battles (which like STO depicts a Federation at war with the Klingons, the Romulans, other invented races etc). That's not a bad thing, but the game's around a decade old, and it shows.

A Star Trek RPG would be really fucking sweet, but no asshole wants to do one.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by The Dark »

Stofsk wrote:The thing that annoys me the most is that it's a very pretty game, and the brief play I did convinced me space combat is a lot of fun.

So why the fuck can't we get some new games for Star Trek? StarFleet Command is really really fun, it's got a great 'you're in the captain's chair' feel, but it's in an AU based on StarFleet Battles (which like STO depicts a Federation at war with the Klingons, the Romulans, other invented races etc). That's not a bad thing, but the game's around a decade old, and it shows.

A Star Trek RPG would be really fucking sweet, but no asshole wants to do one.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by TheFeniX »

Nephtys wrote:Good diplomacy requires the ability to think.
STO players do not possess this.
I'd take that personally, but it really just extends to MMO players period. That and I just recently cancelled my subscription after 2.0 delivered nothing but "BUY OUR NEW SHIPS FOR $15 A PIECE."
I made a character under a two-week demo key. Captain Suzy S. Scandalbottom of the USS Halliburton (Miranda Class), later the USS Quagmire (Nova Class). The space combat was kinda fun, but every ground mission was annoying and pointless. The most diplomatic mission I had was one where I had to solve a worker strike on a mining planet. Naturally, this means running around in a series of fetch-quests, until I click all the dialogue options available. Wow! What riveting diplomacy.
There's maybe 2-3 more missions like that. They're all low-level and boring as hell. The "Aid the plant" missions just bring up a shop for you to exchange credits for XP. Explore missions have you scanning some data then leaving.

Seriously, don't ask Cryptic to do more non-combat missions because the shit they did come up with is awful.

I've never seen diplomacy handled all that well in any game though. Those that even came close usually had a cop-out "I win" skill that made it moot. I'm more annoyed because, like most RPGs, you're railroaded down a specific path. Why can't a science officer "reconfubilate the energy-motron, or whatever" while the tac guy just blows everything up? The engineer could bitch about not having enough power, but we only need him for turret spam anyways.

Really though, without a serious overhaul to the skill-tree and mission system, that shit isn't happening and Cryptic is too busy selling the Galaxy-X for fucking $30 anyways.
Stofsk wrote:The thing that annoys me the most is that it's a very pretty game, and the brief play I did convinced me space combat is a lot of fun.
Run sci in a cruiser: run rough-shod over everyone. Even the new patch just makew it a little harder (which nerfed the fuck out of my builds, but it needed to be done).

The game just lacks any depth. The crafting is shit. Only lifers get any kind of place to call home (for 200 fucking bucks). The economy is hilariously broken so people won't haggle at all, and there's no need to anyways. Feds get rolled hard in any PVP unless there's a pre-made, and even then, they do poorly. And my God do the feds bitch. Their missions are 99% of the game, and they whine so hard when klingons blast them in the only open pvp instance in the game (which we have missions in as Klinks). Once you get to end-game, you can farm your epics in no time (there's three pieces that will take 11 days aper though). Combat is all there is because it seems to be the only thing Cryptic can do right.

Hell, the only fun part of the game left was running around the warzone jacking feds while they farm rares. Still, my best night was when a guy named "Star Wolf" said something along the lines of "Someone needs to kill those last two hulks." So, I waited a bit while the cubes took his shields down, flew in at full impulse, uncloaked, fired a torp volley, hit my ramming speed. As his ship exploded I said "CAN'T LET YOU DO THAT, STAR FOX!"
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by Gramzamber »

Yes, Feds are the only ones who bitch. It's not like the Klink players haven't been crying like babies ever since they introduced the Defiant with a cloak because suddenly Klingons aren't the only ones who can dictate when the battles start in any given arena.

Besides, it's a blow to pride when you're beaten by a faction that's essentially cave men in space.

Anyway it's been a while and I've a few things to add on the subject.
As far as the story goes, yes it's nonsense. It gets even worse with the latest Fed missions.
There are a like three new missions where the storyline objective is to make peace with the Undine. What follows is you go into Fluidic space, ask the Undine to be friends, they say "fuck you!" and you fight for half an hour. Then you DO IT AGAIN because the Federation is nothing if not good at turning the other cheek... I suppose they got that part right then.

Hilariously during these missions you encounter another race of bio-ship using wankers who inform you that the Undine aren't misunderstood at all, and are in fact fascist jerks running a slave empire.
As for the Iconians, they're being wanked out in the extreme. They can make gateways into fluidic space, they can brainwash people into following their orders, every major event in the galaxy has been manipulated by them, their ships can appear and dissapear at will (not cloaking, like teleporting) and one Iconian ship can annihilate a Borg fleet in a couple of shots.
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Re: Star Trek Online= Warhammer 2400 (spoilers)

Post by TheFeniX »

Gramzamber wrote:Yes, Feds are the only ones who bitch.
I never said klinks don't bitch. But running PVP in either my RA or BG, feds were consistently talking shit to either klinks or their own team. It's like a past-time for them. Meanwhile, The Empire is busy trying to win. I've also never seen a klink whine in zone chat about how it's against the spirit of the warzone for me to blast them while they try and finish the mission. So yea, there's that. They do get mad when feds spawn camp them at 8 to 1 odds. Same feds then cry when forced to fight 1 to 1.
It's not like the Klink players haven't been crying like babies ever since they introduced the Defiant with a cloak because suddenly Klingons aren't the only ones who can dictate when the battles start in any given arena.
I assume they're making up for lost time. Besides, Cryptic whores or people just willing to drop the cash have been able to acquire the cloaking enabled Galaxy X and it's Penis Compensation Cannon well before that. Some Klingons bitched for a while, then realized they die just as easy as any other fed.

Personally, the cloak has pissed me off to no extent even though I ran klink for the last 2 months of my subscription. They buffed the Hell out of it in season 1 and it's basically an "I get away button" for BoPs (the worst of the lot in skill terms for klinks). Since Extend Shield got hit with the nerf bat, Feds were hard pressed to keep the first ship we targeted alive even with good healers.

But the only guy I ever saw really bitching about the Defiant cloak was this Star-dak (or whatever) guy in the warzone. That said, he bitched about absolutely everything and he did it all the time.
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