WHEAT RIDGE, Colo. - Admitted thieves are going free, while an elderly Wheat Ridge man is facing the possibility of spending the rest of his life behind bars, all, he says, for trying to defend his property and his life.
82-year-old Robert Wallace said in February that he looked out his window and saw two men hooking his flatbed trailer up to their pickup. He yelled at them to stop, but they sped away, stealing his trailer. He told police he fired two shots at the pickup.
Minutes later, police say 32-year-old Damacio Torres dropped 28-year-old Alvaro Cardona off at a hospital emergency room with a gunshot wound to the face.
Torres did not stay to talk with police, but they caught up with him later. According to court documents, he admitted he and Cardona stole the trailer.
Wallace did not want to talk on camera, but when we asked him if the two men threatened him he said, "They almost ran me over."
The Jefferson County DA's office said that neither Torres nor Cardona have been charged with anything at this point, even though Torres confessed to the crime. However, the homeowner, Wallace is facing twelve felony counts, including four counts of attempted first degree murder. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life behind bars.
Sources say Torres and Cardona are believed to be in the country illegally and both have an arrest record. Cardona's record includes public fighting and numerous traffic offenses like driving without a license or insurance. Torres's record includes agricultural trespassing as well as a 2005 arrest for aggravated motor vehicle theft for which he was given a plea bargain to a lesser crime. Sources say Torres is also under investigation for being part of a major auto theft ring.
Wallace is out on bond and due back in court in September to enter his plea.
Neighbors say the thieves should be the ones facing charges and Wallace should be given an award for protecting the neighborhood.
JointStrikeFighter wrote:Turns out use of lethal force is not warranted for property theft.
It's not just the matter of property theft, but the fact that he shot them as they were retreating and no longer posed a threat. If they were actually inside of his house and rummaging around he would have been perfectly justified in using lethal force.
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Not sure how this can be attempted first degree murder. Sounds more like attempted manslaughter to me. Unless this state doesn't have attempted manslaughter statute.
Rogue 9 wrote:Four counts on two guys? And first degree? How the fuck do they think he premeditated?
They were in the process of running off and he had just enough time to consider his options, including taking their plates and calling the cops. It doesn't really seem like a heat of the moment thing.
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Rogue 9 wrote:Four counts on two guys? And first degree? How the fuck do they think he premeditated?
Not sure about the premeditation, but the four counts probably comes from the fact that he fired two shots with the intent on hitting both guys. 2 x 2 = 4.
Presumably the police are considering what might have happened if this guy had somehow shot a bystander. Something similar happened in Michigan - a guy got carjacked, and he pulled a gun and fired at the thief - penetrating a house and killing a woman.
I'd be interested in a real source if/when you find one. Fox does not qualify, with their tendancy to omit/warp facts or blatantly lie.
Perusing the Internet on this topic it's quite amazing at the vast differences in opinion on this topic when you look at liberal communities vs conservative ones. The liberals almost universally come against this guy, while the conservatives basically think of him as someone that deserves a medal for what he did.
Lord MJ wrote:So I'm reading that the shooter was "almost ran over" and that he fired while he was in front of the vehicle. Does that change anything?
If he was firing at them while they were flooring the gas and trying to run him down, that changes it to self defense, since he was in danger.
Although couldn't it be argued that he placed himself in danger by running out after the thieves instead of waiting inside for the cops? It's not like they drove their car into his living room. Is it still self-defense if he knowingly placed himself in a dangerous situation?
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Lord MJ wrote:So I'm reading that the shooter was "almost ran over" and that he fired while he was in front of the vehicle. Does that change anything?
If he was firing at them while they were flooring the gas and trying to run him down, that changes it to self defense, since he was in danger.
Although couldn't it be argued that he placed himself in danger by running out after the thieves instead of waiting inside for the cops? It's not like they drove their car into his living room. Is it still self-defense if he knowingly placed himself in a dangerous situation?
Me getting in front of an angry man is dangerous, but its still his decision to punch me in the face. It would be stupid, but he can still plead self-defense.
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What the hell is a 82 year old man supposed to do as two thieves run away with his trailer ? Sprint after them like an Olympic athlete ? The only mistake the old man made was not aiming well enough.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
The pressing issue regarding whether self defence is relevant is whether they attempted to run him over before he aimed the gun and opened fire. Depending on continuity of events, the thieves may have provoked him into firing or they themselves may have been using the car in self defence as well.
Frankly it's bullshit that the thieves haven't been charged even though one of them has confessed.
Perhaps it's some kind of ignorance on my part, but why could he not shoot the tires out?
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The Spartan wrote:Perhaps it's some kind of ignorance on my part, but why could he not shoot the tires out?
Small target that's moving. Easier to aim for the passenger compartment as you've got a much better chance of stopping the vehicle if the driver's dead.
Anyways, the old guy is a fucking idiot. You don't run after people stealing from you, and you certainly don't open fire on them. At that point you just take down the vehicle's license and give the Police a general description of the thieves. Charging the old guy with first degree murder is a bit overboard, but fuck 'em. People that fucking stupid and irresponsible shouldn't be allowed in polite society anyway, much less while armed.
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Stofsk wrote:The pressing issue regarding whether self defence is relevant is whether they attempted to run him over before he aimed the gun and opened fire. Depending on continuity of events, the thieves may have provoked him into firing or they themselves may have been using the car in self defence as well.
But it is HIS trailer. Why would he let someone else take it from him by force if he had a weapon that let him try to defend it ?
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
The Spartan wrote:Perhaps it's some kind of ignorance on my part, but why could he not shoot the tires out?
Small target that's moving. Easier to aim for the passenger compartment as you've got a much better chance of stopping the vehicle if the driver's dead.
Ah, yes, I forgot about that. Got my head too wrapped up in legalities...
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Lord MJ wrote:Not sure how this can be attempted first degree murder. Sounds more like attempted manslaughter to me. Unless this state doesn't have attempted manslaughter statute.
The man with the gun was probably trying to stop the thieves from driving off with his property through the simple expedient of killing the thieves. The one with the gunshot wound to the face, and the bullet holes in their truck, probably suggest to the police that the man was aiming to kill. Ergo, there was awareness that his actions could result in the deaths of the men attempting to steal his trailer. That makes it attempted murder. If the evidence suggests he was specifically shooting to kill the men, that makes it premeditated. Which would result in the charge of attempted Murder One. Further damning was the fact that the man saw the thieves hooking up his trailer and yelled at them to stop. Then, apparently, enough time passed for the men to finish what they were doing, jump in the truck, and attempt to drive off. This meant the property owner likely had enough time to think about what to do next. He could've called the cops. Instead, he chose to get his weapon and start shooting.
Attempted manslaughter would've required that his first reaction would've been to pull out his gun and start firing wildly, since then you could argue that he wasn't thinking.
This is one of those cases where everybody is guilty of something. The two men driving the truck were guilty of stealing the man's trailer, and the man is likely guilty of trying to murder them for it.
Sarevok wrote:What the hell is a 82 year old man supposed to do as two thieves run away with his trailer ? Sprint after them like an Olympic athlete ? The only mistake the old man made was not aiming well enough.
I don't know . . . maybe call the fucking cops and report the theft? You know, instead of attempting to commit murder over a fucking trailer?
Something else to consider. They might have tried to run him over, then he shot them while they were fleeing. Their attempted vehicular homicide would put an entirely different light on his returning fire, even if they were fleeing. For starters, it immediately changes the old mans state of mind.
There are too many unknown details in this incident. The old man appears to be trigger happy, but it would not surprise me that the thieves are withholding information. I am going to withhold judgment until I've heard more information.
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Tanasinn wrote:Presumably the police are considering what might have happened if this guy had somehow shot a bystander. Something similar happened in Michigan - a guy got carjacked, and he pulled a gun and fired at the thief - penetrating a house and killing a woman.
I'd be interested in a real source if/when you find one. Fox does not qualify, with their tendancy to omit/warp facts or blatantly lie.
Two theft suspects, who for months remained free of charges even as an elderly man who said he tried to stop them from stealing his trailer faced an attempted-murder charge for shooting at them, were arrested Friday.
Damacio Torres-Ochoa, 32, was arrested about 3 p.m. in Boulder by federal agents, and Alvaro Cardona, 28, was arrested about 6:20 p.m. by Wheat Ridge detectives in a Westminster park.
Robert Wallace, 81, still faces numerous charges, including attempted murder, after police said he fired two shots at the suspects while they were fleeing his property at 3749 Sheridan Blvd. on Feb. 24. One of the bullets struck Cardona in the face.
But while Wallace was charged, Cardona and Torres-Ochoa remained uncharged for months as authorities tried to determine whether the attempted theft of Wallace's trailer was part of a larger ring under investigation by a task force.
Task-force investigators on Wednesday decided they would not pursue charges against Cardona and Torres-Ochoa, freeing Wheat Ridge to resume its investigation.
"I don't know what went into their decision-making," said Lisa Stigall, Wheat Ridge police spokeswoman. "We're just glad that they did. We will aggressively move forward."
Things did move rapidly from that point.
Arrest warrants were issued Friday for Cardona and Torres-Ochoa on felony theft and other charges, Wheat Ridge police said.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents saw that warrant after taking Torres-Ochoa into custody on an immigration violation at his place of employment in Boulder.
ICE will transfer Torres-Ochoa to the Jefferson County Jail, where he will be held on $100,000 bail. Cardona is being held at the jail on a similar bail. Both will appear in Jefferson County Court at 10 a.m. Monday.
The Wheat Ridge department has been criticized on local talk radio, notably the Peter Boyles Show, for taking aim at Wallace while letting the thieves go free. But Stigall said the two suspected thieves were never forgotten.
Wallace, a retired mechanic and amateur hot rod driver, called police at 8:47 p.m. on Feb. 24. Minutes earlier, he was sitting on his couch watching TV when he heard a loud noise.
He looked out his window and saw two men hooking his flat-bed trailer to their red Ford pickup. He grabbed a handgun, rushed outside and ordered the men to stop. They continued hitching the trailer and jumped in the pickup.
Dave Dechant, spokesman for the Jefferson County district attorney, said Colorado's "Make My Day" law applies only to homeowners protecting themselves inside their homes, not to someone protecting personal property.
Police said Wallace told a neighbor that he fired two shots that may have hit the back of the pickup as it sped away. Torres-Ochoa drove Cardona to a hospital minutes later and left him. Hospital employees noted a bullet hole in the truck.
Days later, Wheat Ridge detectives connected Cardona's shooting to Wallace's theft report. They went to Wallace's house to investigate.
Wallace repeatedly denied shooting at the thieves but eventually handed over the gun he had hidden, saying "here is what you are looking for," according to an arrest warrant affidavit.
Detectives arrested Wallace, and he went to jail.
In an interview in his garage Friday, Wallace said his property has been burglarized repeatedly because he never had enough money to put up a fence. He has been trying to sell the property but hasn't had any luck.
His right hand shook uncontrollably. "It's probably the onset of something. I only go to doctors when I'm in dire need."
Wallace is scheduled to be arraigned Sept. 7 on charges of attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon.
