Oscar Grant (BART Shooting) Trial Update

[Master of Ossus]

The thing that still staggers me about this case is that neither Officer Mehserle, nor any of his colleagues, noticed that he had pulled out his firearm and not his Taser.

Everyone realized what happened, but they didn't have time to stop him from firing. From when he draws his gun to when he fires it maybe two or three seconds pass. MAYBE.

Can we all agree at least that perhaps police departments should paint their Tasers bright yellow or something so that a police officer never has to ask himself, "Am I holding the gun-shaped thing I use to kill people, or the gun-shaped thing I use to cause them extreme pain and make them dance?"

They do. The one he was issued with was bright plastic.

I mean, either the cops was an idiot who can’t tell the difference in weight between a SIG Sauer P226 (30oz, unloaded) and a Taser (which can’t weight more than a pound) or I don’t know, he got distracted? Nice to know we’re training our officers so well.

He was obviously distracted. There were multiple fights going on at the same time, and Mehserle and the other officers were supposed to be getting the situation under control. In addition, at least according to some of the witnesses, Grant was actively resisting arrest at the time, and according to Mehserle he saw Grant reaching for his waist-band at the same time.

Also if memory serves the last time a Los Angeles jury convicted a police officer of murder on the job was in the 1970s.

No police officer has been tried in California for murder while on-duty before. It's quite probable that some have been tried for murder while off-duty, but this is the first time it's occurred in California for an on-duty incident.

[eion]

Everyone realized what happened, but they didn't have time to stop him from firing. From when he draws his gun to when he fires it maybe two or three seconds pass. MAYBE.

If they realized he had pulled out his sidearm then 3 seconds is long enough to yell, "CHECK FIRE", or "WAIT", or "NO". Either they did realize that he had drawn his sidearm, and either couldn't or didn't act, or they didn't realize what had happened.

They do. The one he was issued with was bright plastic.

Then he's an idiot. I read that he'd only been carrying a Taser for a few shifts, but presumably he's familiar with his sidearm. If even a bright yellow Taser is too similar to a firearm then perhaps we shouldn't issue Tasers that replicate the shape of a gun so closely.

Was it this color?

or this color?

Because the former I would call "highlighted", and the yellow isn't all that visible to the operator.

He was obviously distracted. There were multiple fights going on at the same time, and Mehserle and the other officers were supposed to be getting the situation under control.

And that distraction killed someone. If he don't have the presence of mind to take a moment and think, "Did I just draw my firearm? This Taser feels very heavy." in a non-lethal situation you probably shouldn't be a cop. I know they designed the M-26 Tasers to be very gun-like and therefore easy to train on, but clearly this has a downside.

No police officer has been tried in California for murder while on-duty before. It's quite probable that some have been tried for murder while off-duty, but this is the first time it's occurred in California for an on-duty incident.

Memory faulty, check. Can't remember where I heard that

[Master of Ossus]

If they realized he had pulled out his sidearm then 3 seconds is long enough to yell, "CHECK FIRE", or "WAIT", or "NO". Either they did realize that he had drawn his sidearm, and either couldn't or didn't act, or they didn't realize what had happened.

I don't think you're understanding the situation. No one was in a position to be watching him throughout the proceedings. He pulled out his gun and fired it, after telling another officer to get clear of the suspect.

Then he's an idiot.

Yes, but not more than an idiot--that's what the case was about.

I read that he'd only been carrying a Taser for a few shifts, but presumably he's familiar with his sidearm. If even a bright yellow Taser is too similar to a firearm then perhaps we shouldn't issue Tasers that replicate the shape of a gun so closely.

Here's the comparison shot.

And that distraction killed someone. If he don't have the presence of mind to take a moment and think, "Did I just draw my firearm? This Taser feels very heavy." in a non-lethal situation you probably shouldn't be a cop. I know they designed the M-26 Tasers to be very gun-like and therefore easy to train on, but clearly this has a downside.

[/quote]

It's true enough, but I can't figure out what you think this has to do with the case.

[eion]

It's true enough, but I can't figure out what you think this has to do with the case.

I'm far less interested in the case than I am in preventing something like this from happening again. No matter what verdict the jury came back with, the guy was still going to be dead. Yes this was a fluke, but an easily preventable fluke nonetheless.

If it's a matter of better training, alright, but too often that gets left by the wayside. There has to be a way to make a Taser usable, but instantly and instinctually distinguishable from a firearm. The civilian model is such, though of a lower power and range, but that can't be that closely tied to the shape.

[SVPD]

The best way to prevent accidental drawing of the firearm instead of the TASER is to require the TASER to be carried on the opposite side of the belt so that it must be pulled cross-draw or with the non-firing hand. This is what we do. It does have a drawback; in an interview stance the TASER is exposed to the person you are dealing with since the stance puts the firearm away from them, but it makes it impossible to accidentally draw the TASER in place of the firearm since the muscle memory will be completely different.

That said, I think that some of you have a serious overestimate of how much ability a person has in a high-stress, fast-moving situation to notice details like the difference between a TASER and a handgun. When the heart rate and one's breathing is elevated, all sorts of effects occur to the senses.

I highly recommend LTC David Grossman's book, On Combat for an extensice discussion of the physiological effects of combat and stress on the body and ability to perform different tasks. I have experienced these effects myself to some degree; thankfully not in a deadly force situation (yet). They are quite drastic, and really pretty astounding if you're not familiar with them. My favorite examples are those of the cops that used to put their brass in their pockets during firefights because they did that at the range in order to speed cleanup; the unintended taining effect proved impossible for them to overcome. Other examples are things such as people being unable to dial 911 in extreme emergency despite repeated attempts due to the detereoration of muscle control and inability to make the rational portion of the brain take back control.

This is not to excuse the officer, but rather to illustrate that there's a lot more going on here than just "he's too dumb to have been a cop." On the contrary, most people become extremely dumb in such situations; they are simply not able to make the same rational decisions that they could at rest. This can be mitigated by training.

I feel that the greatest failure here was not in by the officer (although to be clear, he did indeed fail and is getting what he deserves; I am not excusing him at all) but by the BART police agency which failed to implement a policy that could have avoided the problem and most likely for failing to adequately train its officers in what it is like to be under high stress and how to retain more rational control.