The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[Emerson33260]

They are accounted for. Incidentally, the description "suitcase nuke" is highly misleading.

I'd go with "somewhat misleading".

http://3ad.com/history/cold.war/nuclear ... /adm.3.htm

Thing is, it will be easier, cheaper and safer for a terrorist to get the effect he wants by using a truckload of high explosives with nuclear waste piled on top (the infamous "dirty bomb"), then scream "NUKE!" after the detonation.

[MGlBlaze]

Wow. You learn something new every day. Out of curiosity, if there's never been a sale of this stuff, where did all the talk of it come from?

Most likely? The same people that believe 9/11 was an inside job, think that fluoridation is a form of mind control and consider it a proven fact that immunisation causes autism.

Or more plainly, crackpots and paranoid crackpots.

The 'imunisation causes autism' wild-crackpot-speculation hits quite close to home for me, personally. I think that one was all over the place.
Honestly, conspiracy theorists in general fill me with frothing rage most of the time. 'Insane Troll Logic' doesn't even begin to describe what they come up with if you ask me.

[Bayonet]

Then my bad for being uninformed.

This is a very difficult area to be properly informed in.

[Simon_Jester]

Because the bad guys have now spent a huge amount of time, money, effort and resources to build something that is guaranteed to not work. And in the process have probably left a trail of evidence as clear as day to anyone paying attention as they did so.

And how is this a bad thing?

I still don't see the problem here. If the bad guys waste money and time trying to build an idiot bomb design from an idiot bomb designer, and the idiot don't work, that's a good thing... for us!

[GrayAnderson]

Because the bad guys have now spent a huge amount of time, money, effort and resources to build something that is guaranteed to not work. And in the process have probably left a trail of evidence as clear as day to anyone paying attention as they did so.

And how is this a bad thing?

I still don't see the problem here. If the bad guys waste money and time trying to build an idiot bomb design from an idiot bomb designer, and the idiot don't work, that's a good thing... for us!

Fizzles are still potentially damaging. Granted, you don't level the city like you wanted to, but you'll still usually get a couple of hundred tons to a couple of kt worth of explosion. They don't have quite the weapon they wanted, but it can still be a nasty little bastard. For example, I think I recall hearing that the test in North Korea still hit several kt in spite of being a misfire.

[Pelranius]

Because the bad guys have now spent a huge amount of time, money, effort and resources to build something that is guaranteed to not work. And in the process have probably left a trail of evidence as clear as day to anyone paying attention as they did so.

And how is this a bad thing?

I still don't see the problem here. If the bad guys waste money and time trying to build an idiot bomb design from an idiot bomb designer, and the idiot don't work, that's a good thing... for us!

The bad guys might start acting like they possess an actual nuclear weapon, since they could conceivably be stupid enough to be fooled by the marketing talk. It might not be so bad if it was a terrorist group braying on about possessing a nuke if all they had was a best a dud, but Outer Loonyistan believing the same thing could result in at the very least extremely heightened regional tension.

[Simon_Jester]

OK, granted. It's a bad thing compared to them giving up on nuclear weapon design in disgust.

On the other hand, it's not necessarily a bad thing compared to what they'd come up with on their own, assuming they even have any nuclear physicists of their own.

[JBG]

OK, granted. It's a bad thing compared to them giving up on nuclear weapon design in disgust.

On the other hand, it's not necessarily a bad thing compared to what they'd come up with on their own, assuming they even have any nuclear physicists of their own.

I think that Stuart meant that it was "unfortunate" for Khan's customers. That is the way that I read it but perhaps I am more used to the classic British habit of wry understatement or belittling by subtle sarcasm.

[Gil Hamilton]

I imagine "suitcase nukes" don't exactly have that long a shelf life. Even if some Soviet nukes went missing, they are on borrowed time to be used before they become worthless anyway.

[Gogyra]

Then explain how tin foil hats work. The nephilim are still being hit from another dimension.

Author fiat. The geometry really doesn't work at all if you think about it.

[darksoul]

I imagine "suitcase nukes" don't exactly have that long a shelf life. Even if some Soviet nukes went missing, they are on borrowed time to be used before they become worthless anyway.

I guess that no nuke had being sold, or the world would have heard more about it one way or another
Besides, handling a nuclear weapon is not easy, and they are (or should be) too "trackable" to be of use to stealth organizations. And states that buy those would have to spend a lot in upkeep of a piece of equipment that loses much of its power by not being used or known, and ALL of it if it is. I don't know, doesn't seem a very good deal to me. I would stick to guerrilla, conventional weapons, terrorism and all sorts of fun stuff with biological threats and airplane bombing. Not that it accomplishes much either...

[Uncluttered]

I'd like to see Micheal-Lan-Micheal behead Yahweh by sticking Yahwehs big head in a portal and going snicker-snack.
Yahwehs suprised head could then fall to earth sticking onto the roof of an appropriate pointy landmark. Tokyo tower, Empire state building etc.

A portal to open space could suck him in with vaccuum. It was mentioned that a portal to the ISS is difficult, if not impossible due to energy contraints; but Yahwehs mummified head floating in orbit would be nice too. Everyone can share.

Even better if he doesn't die, just menacingly floats like the head of Unicron.
I imagine a popular coffee table book of Yahwehs facial expressions.

[darksoul]

I'd like to see Micheal-Lan-Micheal behead Yahweh by sticking Yahwehs big head in a portal and going snicker-snack.
Yahwehs suprised head could then fall to earth sticking onto the roof of an appropriate pointy landmark. Tokyo tower, Empire state building etc.

A portal to open space could suck him in with vaccuum. It was mentioned that a portal to the ISS is difficult, if not impossible do to energy contraints; but Yahwehs mummified head floating in orbit would be nice too. Everyone can share.

Even better if he doesn't die, just menacingly floats like the head of Unicron.
I imagine a popular coffee table book of Yahwehs facial expressions.

Hey, actually using portals to fight Yahwe could be a neat trick. One on one Michael couldn't do it because he needed time and energy that he just didn't have. But now one or two of his friends could be diverted to form a portal to wherever, doesn't really matter, and throw Yahweh in, or at least, making a leg or an arm slip into it and have it cut clean or immobilized. That's a good way to even the odds, Yahweh power is not so if he can't wield it. And having him tied down would be a good opportunity for a One Liner, a heroic rant (from Michael, as relatively heroic by comparison) and a good gift to offer humans in the peace talks.

[Uncluttered]

And having him tied down would be a good opportunity for a One Liner, a heroic rant (from Michael, as relatively heroic by comparison) and a good gift to offer humans in the peace talks.

And that Heroic One Liner: "Suck it Yahweh!!"

[EdBecerra]

When people say 'suitcase nuke' they mean 'nuclear device in a large trunk that two men can probably move with a hand cart'. You won't see one on a commuter train.

Actually not that large. Reference the "Davy Crockett" nuke, the W54 model. Small enough (in volume) to fit in a backpack, though I wouldn't want to try and lift the SOB...

Recalling that Wikipedia has all the reliability of a rusty bucket, here's their article on the design.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/W54

The Soviets were accused of having lost some by way of their "cache" system, where they established hidden 'behind-the-lines' supply dumps in enemy territory. The caches themselves were confirmed when the Swiss found one intact cache with money and weapons inside their nation (and BOY, were the Swiss pissed!)

Proof that any of the caches had supplies of the Soviet version of the W54? No evidence that the general public has access to.

Ed.

[EdBecerra]

Friday 16th? It'll be up by then. Probably. Unless something terrible happens.

Pity it couldn't be Friday the 13th...

Ed.

[SilverHawk]

When people say 'suitcase nuke' they mean 'nuclear device in a large trunk that two men can probably move with a hand cart'. You won't see one on a commuter train.

Actually not that large. Reference the "Davy Crockett" nuke, the W54 model. Small enough (in volume) to fit in a backpack, though I wouldn't want to try and lift the SOB...

Recalling that Wikipedia has all the reliability of a rusty bucket, here's their article on the design.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/W54

The Soviets were accused of having lost some by way of their "cache" system, where they established hidden 'behind-the-lines' supply dumps in enemy territory. The caches themselves were confirmed when the Swiss found one intact cache with money and weapons inside their nation (and BOY, were the Swiss pissed!)

Proof that any of the caches had supplies of the Soviet version of the W54? No evidence that the general public has access to.

Ed.

I would prefer to use the SADM over the Davy Crockett, which is truer to the concept of a "Suitcase Nuke" then the W54 (which the SADM also uses) used in the Davy Crockett.

[GrayAnderson]

Because the bad guys have now spent a huge amount of time, money, effort and resources to build something that is guaranteed to not work. And in the process have probably left a trail of evidence as clear as day to anyone paying attention as they did so.

And how is this a bad thing?

I still don't see the problem here. If the bad guys waste money and time trying to build an idiot bomb design from an idiot bomb designer, and the idiot don't work, that's a good thing... for us!

The bad guys might start acting like they possess an actual nuclear weapon, since they could conceivably be stupid enough to be fooled by the marketing talk. It might not be so bad if it was a terrorist group braying on about possessing a nuke if all they had was a best a dud, but Outer Loonyistan believing the same thing could result in at the very least extremely heightened regional tension.

I agree here. Still, all else being equal, I'll take a Ryder truck going boom over a fizzle most days of the week. Better not to tempt them. A dysfunctional nuke would do enough damage as long as something went right, but for the most part it wouldn't be worth the bastards' time and money.

I for one believe firmly that the 9/11 was an inside job.

OK, commence dogpiling. I'll start by pointing out that every 9/11 conspiracy theory would require the complicity of thousands of ordinary Americans. In this entire sample, surely some of them would bravely reveal the conspiracy, or show convincing evidence after the attacks that they were an inside job. Even if you're cynical enough to assume that thousands of random people could be bribed into silence, the budget required for these bribes would be very noticeable. If the government uses threats and intimidation, this wouldn't be enough to keep some people from writing a convincing tell-all book. Again, a book with actual evidence, not the loony stuff raised by the conspiracy theorists.

As for the evidence itself, conspiracy theories range widely on precisely what evidence "proves" there was a conspiracy. I'd rather not write a long post to rebut a dozen different views, so if you could give us a good description of the evidence that convinced you 9/11 was an inside job, I'd be happy to come up with whatever counterexamples exist. I should probably take it somewhere else, though, because it's not related to the story at all.

Yeah, there's nothing to prove this that I've seen...or, frankly, even circumstantial evidence suggesting it. There was bumbling, yes, but that's the most I've seen any legitimate suggestion of. And bumbling bureaucrats do not a war crime make.

Friday 16th? It'll be up by then. Probably. Unless something terrible happens.

If Stuart wants to torment us further by pushing away the conclusion to the battle, I'm sure the very fact of Michael's fight stretching on for 2 more chapters would qualify. Not terrible in terms of story, of course, but terrible in terms of suspense. I already feel like Tantalus trying to read a book. The whole story has been approaching this conclusion, and I've been wanting to see Yahweh's head on a pike for months, but still I wait. It'll have been at least 3 weeks since Chapter 73 for us to finally learn how the battle turns out. I'm sure the conclusion will be worth the wait.

Well, the way I see this is that the story has a quality read as a serial that it will never have as a dead tree. I actually wish I could experience more stories as serials (sorry, gave up on TV a long time ago with very few exceptions); it adds something intangible to the experience (the theorizing and postulating that you'll never really get between chapters of reading a novel).

[Deebles]

Well, the way I see this is that the story has a quality read as a serial that it will never have as a dead tree. I actually wish I could experience more stories as serials (sorry, gave up on TV a long time ago with very few exceptions); it adds something intangible to the experience (the theorizing and postulating that you'll never really get between chapters of reading a novel).

I've quite enjoyed reading stories as serials before, even in the case of such silliness as "Bridget Jones' Diary" when that was originally published in the Independent. It's worth remembering that a lot of classic literature was published this way originally, e.g. much of Charles Dickens' work.

[Consumerist]

On the note of suitcase nukes why would you bother putting one on a commuter train anyways? Wouldn't it be just be easier to rent a truck? Are roads in general more strictly monitored for radiological materials than railways?

Of course I think you could probably get such a package on a train if you could come up with an excuse for it's immense weight.

[Mayabird]

9/11 conspiracy stuff goes into the split Off-Topic thread. Sorry about the story discussion stuff mixed in with those posts that also got sent over. I can't split posts themselves.

[CaptainChewbacca]

On the note of suitcase nukes why would you bother putting one on a commuter train anyways? Wouldn't it be just be easier to rent a truck? Are roads in general more strictly monitored for radiological materials than railways?

Of course I think you could probably get such a package on a train if you could come up with an excuse for it's immense weight.

They don't weigh stuff before going on commuter trains. If its on a luggage dolly, you could be posing as a group of musicians moving equipment to a gig, or even sanitation workers.

[Sea Skimmer]

On the note of suitcase nukes why would you bother putting one on a commuter train anyways? Wouldn't it be just be easier to rent a truck? Are roads in general more strictly monitored for radiological materials than railways?

Of course I think you could probably get such a package on a train if you could come up with an excuse for it's immense weight.

It would really depend on what the target is and where the railroad goes. If you simply wanted to blow up part of New York, then exploding the nuke on an elevated rail line would be better then a truck at street level because the nuke is higher above ground and will have a larger blast radius. But then, exploding the nuke on top of a building would work better still.

[TwilightWalker]

A weekend long Wiki-Walk has led me over learning many new things, from interesting bands, how interesting a person Rommel was and could have been. And most interestingly, this story and thread. I've just started to read into this rather long and interesting piece of literature, and I must say thumbs up to you, Ser Stuart. I look forward to reading more, and perhaps saying more than this thumbs up, of which I specifically joined this forum for!

[bcoogler]

On the note of suitcase nukes why would you bother putting one on a commuter train anyways? Wouldn't it be just be easier to rent a truck? Are roads in general more strictly monitored for radiological materials than railways?

Of course I think you could probably get such a package on a train if you could come up with an excuse for it's immense weight.

Weight on a train is generally not that big a deal. If your target is the train itself (like the Madrid bombing), one could take the Rube Goldberg approach, rent a small truck, load it with whatever you have in mind, and buy a ticket for the Amtrak Auto Train.

What Type of Vehicle Can I Bring?

You may bring automobiles, vans, SUVs, trucks and motorcycles on the Auto Train as long as they meet certain dimension requirements.

That said, I would hope there are at least *some* precautions in place. My rule of thumb is, any scheme I can dream up has probably already been tried by somebody somewhere.