Star Wars Clone Wars TV - Implications for Imperial Military

[Connor MacLeod]

Many of the points that I thought of as inconsistencies dealt primarily with this issue of the shield being breached in a manner that seemed unusual to me considering the episodes. Again, I already conceded to Vympel that anything in canon episodes immediately overrides anything from the SW Clone Wars TV series. But I don't understand Connor's dismissal of points regarding cases of shield penetration being significant at all.

**snip lengthy bits for brevity**

I probably missed a bunch of examples, if so please point them out. But from the accumulation of evidence (which includes all the cases on the SD.net page about SW Shields), it seems to me that the Clone Wars TV series DOES paint a different picture of shield technologies than the movies (I have conceded that it wouldn't override the movies though).

I'm not sure how Connor would justify the idea of a squadron of bombers penetrating the shields of the Sep flagship. What canon shield piercing technique(s) (seen in movies) would explain this? I'm not trying to say the bombers are worthless either, there are definitely circumstances that they can be effective in (DS exhaust port comes to mind). But it seems that canon sources depict fighters/bombers as not being fully capable of penetrating the shields of larger vessels (Mr. Wong even alluded directly to this point I believe).

I think you missed the point. I alluded specifically to technologies which can apparently either neutralize or disrupt shielding via methods other than simply brute forcing your way through via raw firepower. Zam Wessell's remote in AOTC does this when it tries to Assassinate Amidala. THe Buzz droids in ROTS can do it. The Rebel fighters in ANH apparently had some means of breaching the DS's outer defenses (including the shields) which has been alluded to as countermeasures in the radio drama. There are countless examples in EU sources to draw on as well. Such technologies are not an instant guarantee neccesarily (more a form of counter measure and counter-countermeasure warfare like with sensors and jamming)

The ability of fighters to threaten warships depends entirely on the fact they use physical munitions. And phyiscal munitions are the sorts that could use shield penetration aids as described. Hence my lack of concern over the Malevolent bit (you dont need that much firepower to destroy the bridge if you can bypass the shields.)

Furthermore, in the TV series, the Sep boarding ships need to bore through the hull to be effective. I'll grant that there might be weaknesses in armor that would allow this, but wouldn't you think that the deflector shields would block this physical impact like they would block the asteroids? Later with the droid starfighters ramming them, I'll grant that they could be loaded with bombs and have more KE than the asteroids, but that still paints a pretty wimpy picture of Republic shield tech. A few kamikazes and some light bombardment and a ship is (in this case I think I am justified to say) destroyed! Compare that to the ISDs sustaining prolonged combat in RotJ. Though that case didn't involve kamikazes, I think trying to argue that turbolaser blasts would pose less risk to SW ships than kamikazes would brings up the issue of why missiles with explosive payloads aren't used instead of turbolasers? It seems a reasonable conclusion that SW ships use turbolasers as they are more effective against SW deflectors.

There are any number of ways for boarding ships to bypass shields the same way fighters can get close. Flying close to the ship, slowing down to pass through the shields (like battle droids or AT ATs), use lf shield piercing countermeasures, etc.

[Adam Reynolds]

Grievous Intrigue (S2, Ep9)
- Numerous boarding procedures are shown, at airlocks, however only hand weapons were used, no specialized anti-personnel stations, etc.

Um, well the first example was a Jedi ordering his troops to the escape pods to deal with Grievous personally, and we didnt even see much of that either or the circumstances since it happeneda t the very beginning and was a few minutes. I don't see how you can make sweeping generalizations there.

The second one I can recall (Grievous boarding Obi-Wan's ship) had Obi-Wan wanting to hold grievous as a diversion, so they want him to board rathre than trying to keep him off.

In any event we know canonically that such defenses exist. We've seen internal guns inside Tradfed battleships (inside the hanger - TPM), we've seen sections of the deathstar that had automated defenses (ANH), and we know that gas attacks and forcefield defenses will be used (TPM and ROTS). I really don't see what this is supposed to "prove".

- Not normally using specialized anti-personnel weapons (E-Web) to defend against boarding parties.

The example you cited had two examples where the invading force was deliberately allowed inside without much if any resistance, independent of any other considerations. I don't see what this proves.

A much better example of ineffective counter-boarding systems was in the Cloak of Darkness episode. Clones are given the order to repel boarders, and they run into battle wielding nothing but their carbines against super battle droids. They continually fall back, and if it wasn't for the intervention of Luminara Unduli, the clones would have been overwhelmed. Actually this scene reminds me of the opening to ANH with the clones playing the role of the poorly equipped rebels.

Death Trap (S2, Ep20)
- Shots fired from a blaster stolen from a clonetrooper at a reactor command console lead to the destruction of a Republic cruiser

Um what does the command console control exactly? If it was for the cooling system that very well may have fucked up the settings, which may lead to all sorts of Bad Things happening in the reactor (What happens if the cooling system is operating at less than optimal levels? What if there's a sudden spike or surge in the reactor or increase in power and the cooling system can't compensate? Etc etc..)

Actually Boba didn't simply shoot the control console, he also fired on some element of the reactor itself. Given the high level of firepower that is possible with Star Wars small arms, it is quite possible that he damaged critical systems that caused a meltdown. Also, if you watch that scene, he appears to deliberately target certain systems. It would seem that he had detailed information on where to target on that ship. It wasn't as if he got lucky randomly shooting at the reactor.

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe because of the scale and size of the Clone Wars, those Clones repelling the boarders were poorly equipped due to a shortage in anti-boarding weapons. They could've complained at the lack of E-webs, requested heavy blasters to be issued to them, and repeatedly denied due to lack of supplies.

[Darksider]

Maybe because of the scale and size of the Clone Wars, those Clones repelling the boarders were poorly equipped due to a shortage in anti-boarding weapons. They could've complained at the lack of E-webs, requested heavy blasters to be issued to them, and repeatedly denied due to lack of supplies.

That's true. Remember, the Republic is up against an opponent that can crank out new war material at an obscene rate. Are Wong's calcs for the Geonosis droid factory still up on the main site? IIRC the one factory seen in AOTC could crank out upwards of ten thousand battle droids a day, and the Commerce Guilds are stated to have been strip mining entire planets to produce their armies. The Republic is definitely outnumbered, and shipboard compliments may not have priority when it comes to getting new equipment due to the numerous ground battles going on.

[Adam Reynolds]

That's true. Remember, the Republic is up against an opponent that can crank out new war material at an obscene rate. Are Wong's calcs for the Geonosis droid factory still up on the main site? IIRC the one factory seen in AOTC could crank out upwards of ten thousand battle droids a day, and the Commerce Guilds are stated to have been strip mining entire planets to produce their armies. The Republic is definitely outnumbered, and shipboard compliments may not have priority when it comes to getting new equipment due to the numerous ground battles going on.

According to the main site, the numbers produced by the single factory we saw in AOTC come out to 82,000 battle droids per day. Which by numbers seems to show that the Republic would be easily overwhelmed. Also in Ambush it was stated that the clones are outnumbered 100 to 1.

[Srelex]

I don't think you should take the Ambush comment at face value; I highly doubt Dooku would care about doing the precise calcs to work out the exact odds, as opposed to simply pulling something out of his ass on the spot.

[Azron_Stoma]

I don't think you should take the Ambush comment at face value; I highly doubt Dooku would care about doing the precise calcs to work out the exact odds, as opposed to simply pulling something out of his ass on the spot.

I kind of like taking it at face value, especially combining it with the quintillion battle droid figure.

[Srelex]

But then people tend to combine it with the three million figure, which makes things even worse.