'The isoton'

[The Yosemite Bear]

Hell ST weapontry pales in comparison to Bun-Bun so what's the problem.

[Setesh]

Graham Kennedy (yes the 'Portal' guy) wwith his tendency to massivly over inflate trek power says Voyagers entire sheild system has a maximum tolorence of 725000 terajoules, so according to him a single LTL shot will bring down Voyagers sheilds so much for his own fics premises.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

But Kennedy's premises are that SW weapons are at best 1% effective against Federation shielding overall and their phasers have a HUGE NDF ratio on SW hulls, multiplying their effective firepower!

[Setesh]

That's why his position is so laughable, ST races using far less powerful plasma weapons nearly toast the Enterprise (nil and D). Also unlike the phasers Turbolasers are brute force weapons not target dependent ones. Even the feddies come to relise that dense armor is many times more effective than their sheilds (ref. Voy ablative armor). Armored targets are shown repaetedly to have greater resistance to phasers (I won't mention the Doomsday machine that used nuetronium armor was completely phaser impervious since it used 'pure' neutronium while Wars ships alloy it to reduce weight.)

[Alyeska]

That's why his position is so laughable, ST races using far less powerful plasma weapons nearly toast the Enterprise (nil and D). Also unlike the phasers Turbolasers are brute force weapons not target dependent ones. Even the feddies come to relise that dense armor is many times more effective than their sheilds (ref. Voy ablative armor). Armored targets are shown repaetedly to have greater resistance to phasers (I won't mention the Doomsday machine that used nuetronium armor was completely phaser impervious since it used 'pure' neutronium while Wars ships alloy it to reduce weight.)

Actually ST Voyager talked about a plasma element to Phasers. That and the Plasma torpedoes in use by both the Dominion and the Romulans. The Federation has handled plasma weaponry quite frequently. And then there are the metaphasic shields.

[SirNitram]

That's why his position is so laughable, ST races using far less powerful plasma weapons nearly toast the Enterprise (nil and D). Also unlike the phasers Turbolasers are brute force weapons not target dependent ones. Even the feddies come to relise that dense armor is many times more effective than their sheilds (ref. Voy ablative armor). Armored targets are shown repaetedly to have greater resistance to phasers (I won't mention the Doomsday machine that used nuetronium armor was completely phaser impervious since it used 'pure' neutronium while Wars ships alloy it to reduce weight.)

Actually ST Voyager talked about a plasma element to Phasers. That and the Plasma torpedoes in use by both the Dominion and the Romulans. The Federation has handled plasma weaponry quite frequently. And then there are the metaphasic shields.

I've seen the evidence for Plasma Phasers, and I'm actually convinced. Voyager actually produces an intelligent advance for Starfleet... What a shocker.

As for Metaphasic shields, they've been used, I think, twice. That doesn't support them being widespread. I'm wholly against this mix&match rare techs, unless the Pro-Trek side doesn't mind me pulling out an Eclipse-SSD armoured in Quantum Crystalline Armour, with a Grav-Shock mount.

[TheDarkling]

SirNitram: Metaphasic shields have been used twice as you say - this is beyond amazing when you consider its trek, Geordi was actually coming up with the program for the shield thus it called be implemented on command and since SF vessels like to fly into suns etc I would think the necessary program was introduced fleet wide.

Alyeska: Was it you who did the calcs for the Romulan Plasma torps and then used that to rate the E-Nil's shields those were some good figures it could almost stand upto an SW transport ship .

I am not however sure what a metaphasic shield would do to a plasma weapon - have you got any ideas what it would do?

[SirNitram]

SirNitram: Metaphasic shields have been used twice as you say - this is beyond amazing when you consider its trek, Geordi was actually coming up with the program for the shield thus it called be implemented on command and since SF vessels like to fly into suns etc I would think the necessary program was introduced fleet wide.

'You Would Think' is not a basis for assuming something in these debates.

GravShock devices were standard Imperial armanant, albeit powerhungry.

Quantum Crystalline Armour has been implemented in a Jedi Academy Ship.

The plans for the ESSD still exist.

Should we assume the NR or Imperial Remnant therefore has the hybrid ship I proposed? No, of course not. Same reason we shouldn't assume Starfleet has put Metaphasic shields on everything.

[Ender]

Quantum Crystalline Armour has been implemented in a Jedi Academy Ship.

And the Cathedral of the Wind on Vortex (real imaginive name there KJA, ya jackass.)

[TheDarkling]

SirNitram: Yes but those things you mentioned are hard wear upgrades, the metaphasic shield is simply using normal shields that you find on any starship but your right its much more likely that the federation let this technology drift away because it wasnt practical since we all know that ST ships never do research on stars and they never make any sort of modification to their ships on the job .

[Setesh]

Actually ST Voyager talked about a plasma element to Phasers. That and the Plasma torpedoes in use by both the Dominion and the Romulans. The Federation has handled plasma weaponry quite frequently.

But not on this scale, the strongest weapon blast I remember the stated shot off of was from the Douwd's replica Husnock at 400 Gigawatts and they made a run for it, even if they handle plasma ok, being struck with more energy then your entire shield system would be really really bad.

And then there are the metaphasic shields

.

Which will do very little since you can't get more energy out of the sheilds than you put in, being metaphasic just makes it weapons and other energies can't pase through by 'matching' frequency, something SW ships don't bother with.

Take two Intrepid ships the only differance is the shield

Ship A has a standered Trek shield with a total capacity of 750000 terajoules

Ship B has a Metaphasic sheild with the same 750000 Terajoules

Remember the Metaphasic is a configuration not a differance in design so it would draw the same power resources. In reality this should decrease the energy handling capacity since generating a second phase varience would use some of the systems energy.

I shoot both ships with a 800000 terajoule shot.

Both sheilds are massively over whelmed as they take more power than they can possibly handle. Even worse since the blast is focused on a singl spot it would blast through the sheild in the section and rip into the ship.

[SirNitram]

SirNitram: Yes but those things you mentioned are hard wear upgrades, the metaphasic shield is simply using normal shields that you find on any starship but your right its much more likely that the federation let this technology drift away because it wasnt practical since we all know that ST ships never do research on stars and they never make any sort of modification to their ships on the job .

What's so big about hardware upgrades? Armour is simple as hell: Bolt chunks of it onto the hull. A GravShock device is literally mounted inside the vessel. The ESSD is just a big ship, but can be built very quickly(Ref: Dark Empire 2).

The argument that Trek can get all it's special tech onto ships for the fight is nonsense.

[TheDarkling]

SirNitram: Yes but those things you mentioned are hard wear upgrades, the metaphasic shield is simply using normal shields that you find on any starship but your right its much more likely that the federation let this technology drift away because it wasnt practical since we all know that ST ships never do research on stars and they never make any sort of modification to their ships on the job .

What's so big about hardware upgrades? Armour is simple as hell: Bolt chunks of it onto the hull. A GravShock device is literally mounted inside the vessel. The ESSD is just a big ship, but can be built very quickly(Ref: Dark Empire 2).

A hardware upgrade takes a lot longer than typing in a few keystrokes (especially for ST people they probably have LCD screens and touch pads on bedding)

The argument that Trek can get all it's special tech onto ships for the fight is nonsense.

If hardware upgrade is so easy they why couldnt they?
Not that im saying they can all I am saying is that metaphasic shields are probably fleet wide.
I cant say as I know of any reason why metaphasic shields would be more effective though - anyone got any reasoning behind that conclusion?

[Setesh]

They actually suck more. The 'phasing' of the shield is how they fire out, hence why they can shoot out through them and why knowing the phase varience let's you shoot through ST sheilds. Metaphasic sheilds are used for solar protection due to the continous energy bombardment 'leakage' occurs in single phase sheilds. metaphasic would stop the leakage as the 'down' part of one phase would occur at the up part of the other. But this also means you can't shoot out.

[Alyeska]

Alyeska: Was it you who did the calcs for the Romulan Plasma torps and then used that to rate the E-Nil's shields those were some good figures it could almost stand upto an SW transport ship .

That wasn't me

[The Yosemite Bear]

You forgot the Gorn (Eggs armed with sledgehammers) design Philosphy. A single Gorn ship destroyed a Fed world. The cosmic being said that neither ship had a snowballs chance of surviving the other's attack.)

[SirNitram]

Darkling: If you can claim they got updated with Metaphasic shields without a single shred of evidence, I can claim all ships received Q-C armour. In accordance with this, all ships weapons are now magnitudes more powerful, as they can still harm each other.

Both arguments are total bullshit, but if you want to play that way....

[TheDarkling]

SirNitram: Your conclusion is far less likely there is no reason for the feds to just forget this research and there are many advantages to its use why assume its lost tech?

[SirNitram]

SirNitram: Your conclusion is far less likely there is no reason for the feds to just forget this research and there are many advantages to its use why assume its lost tech?

Because it's never, ever seen again, of course! By your logic, I now declare Magpulse torpedos common tech, because they give many advantages and there's no reason to think they forgot about them.

[Lord_Vader]

Actually I am surprised that no SW author ever incorporated the idea of the Mag-pulse torpedoes...shame they disappear after TIE FIGHTER.

[TheDarkling]

SirNitram: Higher production cost maybe? some other draw back? we see normal torps in use again afterwards?

The metaphasic shield would at least be in every ST ships database since they carry alot of useless scientific data around - you are honestly telling me that SF would not use this tech to research stars instead they would just ignore it for no reason.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

SirNitram: Higher production cost maybe? some other draw back? we see normal torps in use again afterwards?

The metaphasic shield would at least be in every ST ships database since they carry alot of useless scientific data around - you are honestly telling me that SF would not use this tech to research stars instead they would just ignore it for no reason.

(Emphasis mine)

It hasn't stopped them from not using stuff like that before, has it?

[Doomriser]

Actually I am surprised that no SW author ever incorporated the idea of the Mag-pulse torpedoes...shame they disappear after TIE FIGHTER.

There were bigger ones even before TIE FIGHTER.

Magnetic Bombards

High tech worlds where the new magnepulse custom ordnance have been tested showed an Immediate cessation of hostile and rebellious activity. A magnetic bombard delivered above cities or technological installations can send a civilization literally back into its dark ages.

These weapons take two forms, both delivering a magnetic pulse that shorts out most technological equipment, computers, communication units, and droids. The first method delivers the pulse via a cannon blast delivered by a ship of medium cruiser level or above. This blast, however, can be reflected back on the firer, causing the attacking vessel to "blink out" and become a desolate, powerless hulk. The second method delivers its pulse via a cluster bomb, but these bombs can be destroyed before they reach detonation.

Now being designed to include shields and evasive computers, the magnepulse bomb is gaining acceptance within the Empire. It is a clean weapon that simply prevents a world from retaliating with modern weaponry. The bombs can be carried by any vessel capable of supporting TIE bays, as these weapons are approximately the size of a fighter when the thrusters, evasive computers, shield generator, and power cells are in place.

The sophisticated technology that goes into creating a magnepulse bomb, and its one-shot delivery, make this ordnance very mission expensive. For now, DMR has chosen to spend the extra credits to obtain maximum flexibility. But new technologies, like interchangeable cannon-mounted weapons, might see this change in the near future.

Remember, these weapons do nothing against planets without a level of
technology that includes computers and electromagnetic communications. But as most worlds the Empire wishes to pacify fall into this category, the use of magnepulse ordnance may increase as the civil war rages on."

[Imperial Source Book, Ch. 6]

[TheDarkling]

It hasn't stopped them from not using stuff like that before, has it?

Examples please?

[Mr Bean]

It hasn't stopped them from not using stuff like that before, has it?

Crystal Gravity Field Traps are a Classic Example of where it has not stoped them, One they are ment for Space Based Instlations to protect aginst cloacked ships never-mind a moving cloaked ship can be seen easily if under power by SW sensors AND they are not that great when used on Planets(Cutting Efficancys in half or so as it has to filter out the Planet's gravity effects every micro-second

They STILL slap them on some planets despite the fact the only people to ever use Cloaking has been... THE EMPIRE

They've got the money wiether they spend it depends on what the man in the field wants