Twilight eclipse

[Crossroads Inc.]

At over seven pages, any chance of the thread being saved for posterity? Maybe Off topic or HoS?

[The Grim Squeaker]

In terms of "Wanked" vampires, I would hate to think of ever defending Meyers abominations, but there is another fictional branch that is rather heavily wanked.

The Terry Pratchett-verse Vampires, much as I adore the stories, are rather 'wanked'.
They have very few "permanent" methods of death.

If you stake one, it can come back if the stake is removed.
Cutting their head off is a 'mild inconvenience' as they can put it back and heal 'very fast'
Even burning one with fire or sunlight isn't permanent, if you collect the dust and splatter blood on it, they will reform.

In terms of power, aside from super strength and super speed, they can "Go bats" and turn into hundreds of small bats. Also they do not 'need' to drink blood. Many in the Pratchett-verse seem able to turn the craving for blood into some other sort of craving or addiction, like coffee, or politics...

Of course in terms of being 'traditional' vampires they out do several others.

For me, what grinds my gears about the Meyers vamps has been touched upon by several others. There is just no Down side to them AT ALL. Vampires were and are supposed to be outcasts, shunned for being horrible monsters. It isn't just not 'needing' blood, or being immune to sunlight; Its her vamps don't ACT like vampires.

Pratchett vampires may be obscenely powerful by some standards, but they are traditionalists to the letter. Weakness include holy water, garlic and holy symbols, they might not stay dead from sunlight but it still burns them. They might not 'need' blood but those that swear it off have to fight constant cravings none the less.
.

Just to nitpick - The traditional weaknesses are purely psychological for Pratchett Vampires. "Carpe Jugulum" goes into this in more detail, but to summarize, the family of vampires there among other things, eat garlic, drink holy water, wander in the sun, and write holy books.
The only weakness they still had was "Invite required". (And they found a nifty loophole in that when the king invited them).
They were also horrifyingly potent telepaths, in addition to being fast/strong/etc'.

Granny Weatherwax still kicked ass of course

[chitoryu12]

Based on their description, I got the impression that a simple werewolf be outmatched by one, unlike Underworld where Lycans seemed generally stronger than most vamps. Are the Pedowolves wanked regarding their powers as well, or is it something like because they're supernatural, they can thus naturally do more damage to vamps. I remember seeing that rationale somewhere before in a movie or show.

Depends. First it needs to be stated that the Quileute Wolves differ from true Werewolves, according to the Volturi. First is that Werewolves are much stronger than the Quileute's and Vampires. The downside to this is the Werewolves are totally mad when shapechanged and completely solitary. Another difference is Werewolves can change only in moonlight.

The Quileute's as I've said are much weaker and far more vulnerable to Vampires, though their bite is still lethal. What they do have though is they can shapechange any time they want, they cooperate and to facilitate it they have telepathy, they're also faster and more agile than Vampires.

The difference between the two saves the lives of the Olympic Coven in the fourth book since the Volturi declared any pacts with Werewolves to be a punishable offense. Aro and Marcus, part of the Volturi triumvirate, were convinced by Caius that Werewolves were a danger to Vampires everywhere and thus caused the near-extinction of them in Europe and Asia. Caius having been almost killed by one two millennia ago.

As for the Vampires being simply better wait until the next movie. Newborn Vampires are supposedly uncontrollably bloodthirsty, but amazingly Bella has super-vampire self-control.

The whole series is just a wankfest for Stephanie Meyer to live out her fantasy of having two sexy, superpowered men fight for her love while she becomes the most powerful being in the universe. Hell, the description of Bella she gave when asked perfectly matches her own facial features.

I'm pretty sure that she has barely any experience in healthy relationships if she doesn't find a problem with Edward and Jacob's treatment of her expy.

[Crazedwraith]

Just to nitpick - The traditional weaknesses are purely psychological for Pratchett Vampires. "Carpe Jugulum" goes into this in more detail, but to summarize, the family of vampires there among other things, eat garlic, drink holy water, wander in the sun, and write holy books.
The only weakness they still had was "Invite required". (And they found a nifty loophole in that when the king invited them).
They were also horrifyingly potent telepaths, in addition to being fast/strong/etc'.

Just to nitpick - By the end of the book, this all backfired horrendously so their weaknesses became magnified. They ended up seeing religious symbols everywhere for example.

[Zixinus]

Just to nitpick - The traditional weaknesses are purely psychological for Pratchett Vampires. "Carpe Jugulum" goes into this in more detail, but to summarize, the family of vampires there among other things, eat garlic, drink holy water, wander in the sun, and write holy books.

Yes, but that was partly the point: vampires overcoming their weaknesses and their quint little traditions and allowed to be what they really are: monsters.

Also, you had to throw something a little bit more fresh at folklore-savvy witches.

[Temujin]

The whole series is just a wankfest for Stephanie Meyer to live out her fantasy of having two sexy, superpowered men fight for her love while she becomes the most powerful being in the universe. Hell, the description of Bella she gave when asked perfectly matches her own facial features.

I'm pretty sure that she has barely any experience in healthy relationships if she doesn't find a problem with Edward and Jacob's treatment of her expy.

This just keeps getting better. She's really a sick little puppy, ain't she?

[chitoryu12]

The whole series is just a wankfest for Stephanie Meyer to live out her fantasy of having two sexy, superpowered men fight for her love while she becomes the most powerful being in the universe. Hell, the description of Bella she gave when asked perfectly matches her own facial features.

I'm pretty sure that she has barely any experience in healthy relationships if she doesn't find a problem with Edward and Jacob's treatment of her expy.

This just keeps getting better. She's really a sick little puppy, ain't she?

Horribly. The worst debacle was Midnight Sun. Someone leaked the first 10 chapters and she said that she was so upset about it that she's refusing to continue work on the book until she thinks that everyone's forgotten about it. She's nothing more than a 14-year-old making crappy Anne Rice fanfics in the body of a barely-attractive 36-year-old.

Hell, some people suspect that she may have leaked it herself just to get publicity. She said that she's not angry about the leak and doesn't think that it was leaked with any malicious intent, but she's still taking her ball and going home?

I actually happen to like Robert Pattinson, and I feel sorry for him having to get involved with this. Remember Me was terrible, and he still acted the part as well as the shitty script let him. He's a genuinely funny guy and nice to his fans, but he admitted that he only took the part because he was poor, had no acting work coming in, and was about to just quit and find another job. Now, he's got more fame than he can handle. He hates the character he has to play and thinks Stephanie is a bit nuts about Edward.

[Temujin]

I actually happen to like Robert Pattinson, and I feel sorry for him having to get involved with this. Remember Me was terrible, and he still acted the part as well as the shitty script let him. He's a genuinely funny guy and nice to his fans, but he admitted that he only took the part because he was poor, had no acting work coming in, and was about to just quit and find another job. Now, he's got more fame than he can handle. He hates the character he has to play and thinks Stephanie is a bit nuts about Edward.

I actually mentioned/asked this earlier in the thread (amazing it went on this long ), but I thought I heard that he was saying he was going to quit acting after Twilight was over. If true I would assume it would have to do with a combination of becoming typecast and the craziness of some of the fans.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

"Barely-attractive", Chit?

Actually, I wonder what would happen if Pattinson-as-Edward tried to tap that...

[chitoryu12]

"Barely-attractive", Chit?

Actually, I wonder what would happen if Pattinson-as-Edward tried to tap that...

Yes. Barely.

She would probably try to marry him on the spot. Or make him her sex slave.

[Steve]

Since it seems to be a vibrant discussion and it involves something Fantasy, I've brought it over here.

[Vympel]

To my eternal shame, I've seen every Twilight movie to come out. I don't know why, but I just hand over money to chortle at how awful it is. I'm an idiot. My friend hates it too, but she wants to watch it for the same reason, so we do.

It's been said many times by many different people, but I think people who are really into Twilight and find it romantic as opposed to simply retarded have issues. It's the most unhealthy, fucked up 'relationship' seen on film (and I assume in books too). At its core, the entire message is loathsome.

* There's nothing in common between Bella and Edward (or Bella and Jacob) nor any apparent reason why they would want her so badly;
* Bella has no defining characteristics whatsoever (much has been made that she's an empty vessel so all the juvenile girls can self-insert themselves into her character);
* She's a thoroughly detestable person with no interest in anything whatsoever apart from her own desires, and gives not a fuck about anyone but herself. Not her father, her mother, her friends - not even Edward, arguably;
* Edward's a fucking psycho stalker; and
* Jacob's well on his way to becoming a rapist in Eclipse (the shit he says is just fucking creepy).

That said, Eclipse was so far the best movie in the series. Not that it says much.

[Guardsman Bass]

That said, Eclipse was so far the best movie in the series. Not that it says much.

It's because the whole Love Triangle mess is carried by the rest of the movie, which isn't too bad. I actually liked the characters of Jasper and Riley, plus the whole vampire on vampire battle.

There's nothing in common between Bella and Edward (or Bella and Jacob) nor any apparent reason why they would want her so badly;

That's what always kind of weirded me out about the whole relationship. He himself points out that everything about him - his appearance, his smell - is such to lure potential prey in, which makes you wonder how Bella would really separate love from the whole "bedazzlement" thing (particularly since she's constantly describing how beautiful he is in the books).

As for Edward, he's addicted to the smell of her blood, and (if the whole Midnight Sun thing can be taken as representative) intrigued by the fact that he can't read her mind.

No idea on the whole "Jacob" thing, although before he turns into a wolf for the first time, he wasn't such a asshole about the whole thing.

and I assume in books too

I've only read the first two books, but they are definitely even worse than the movies in all the stuff you talk about.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Just to nitpick - The traditional weaknesses are purely psychological for Pratchett Vampires. "Carpe Jugulum" goes into this in more detail, but to summarize, the family of vampires there among other things, eat garlic, drink holy water, wander in the sun, and write holy books.
The only weakness they still had was "Invite required". (And they found a nifty loophole in that when the king invited them).
They were also horrifyingly potent telepaths, in addition to being fast/strong/etc'.

Just to nitpick - By the end of the book, this all backfired horrendously so their weaknesses became magnified. They ended up seeing religious symbols everywhere for example.

It doesn't really backfire so much as it's "Shut down".

[chitoryu12]

I told Kelly that Bella she has the choice of either a near-emotionless stalker with the flesh of a marble statue who doesn't want her to hang out with her best friend, or an angry young man who doesn't own shirts and doesn't want her dating a guy because he happens to be a vampire (never mind that he's a douche; vampirism is really the only thing the tribe cares about in defining the Cullens).

[Setzer]

I was once able to troll a fan of the books by challenging her to name one thing Bella actually did. Just one accomplishment that she does on her own, without anyone's help. Eventually she mentioned her Magical Mary Sue Love Shield thingy. Sadly, I didn't know what to say to that at the time. I should have told her that being given a superpower out of the blue, with no training or even an indication that you were going to receive it, isn't an accomplishment, it's a Deus ex Machina.

As for Myer's personal life, I did hear that she went to a college that had a reputation as a fine place for a girl to get her MRS degree. She's probably under the delusion that women need men in their lives to be happy.

[Majin Gojira]

If I recall correctly, Marriage is a huge thing in Mormonism. Specifically, it's not just "To Death Do You part" it's "Your husband is your gateway into heaven, and he can revoke it if you're not good" or something like that.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I was once able to troll a fan of the books by challenging her to name one thing Bella actually did. Just one accomplishment that she does on her own, without anyone's help. Eventually she mentioned her Magical Mary Sue Love Shield thingy. Sadly, I didn't know what to say to that at the time. I should have told her that being given a superpower out of the blue, with no training or even an indication that you were going to receive it, isn't an accomplishment, it's a Deus ex Machina.

As for Myer's personal life, I did hear that she went to a college that had a reputation as a fine place for a girl to get her MRS degree. She's probably under the delusion that women need men in their lives to be happy.

That is freaking awesome, it makes me want to try and find a Twilight fanatic of my own just to ask the same question and see what happens.

If I recall correctly, Marriage is a huge thing in Mormonism. Specifically, it's not just "To Death Do You part" it's "Your husband is your gateway into heaven, and he can revoke it if you're not good" or something like that.

Which explains a lot about the high rates of spousal abuse within the mormon, and more specifically, polygamist churches.
I wonder if that was something good ol Joseph Smith thought up directly, or was added latter. Making a Religion where the Husband is the Only way to get to heaven is really a stroke of misogynist genus.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Eventually she mentioned her Magical Mary Sue Love Shield thingy.

You should've challenged her on that, it took days oif training against another Vampire who could channel electricity through her body and hurl lightning for Bella to do that, even then in order for it to actually manifest as a true shield Edward had to vamp her in what will most ceritainly be the most interesting scene of the nextany movie.

[lance]

I think most peoples issue is the fan whores and their ridiculous behavior, rather than the shitty films themselves.

The problem is that Stephanie Meyer completely neuters the vampire myth. You might as well take zombies and turn them into fucking vegetarians, it just doesn't work when you expect people to take it seriously.

I was watching Adventure Time with Fin & Jake, and they had a vampire appear. From the flashbacks it seems that she is completely lacking in weaknesses except for maybe having to be invited in. Except she apparently spent a 1000 marking spots as hers. She worked really well as a 1 shot character on a quarter hour long show.

[Setzer]

Eventually she mentioned her Magical Mary Sue Love Shield thingy.

You should've challenged her on that, it took days oif training against another Vampire who could channel electricity through her body and hurl lightning for Bella to do that, even then in order for it to actually manifest as a true shield Edward had to vamp her in what will most ceritainly be the most interesting scene of the nextany movie.

Ah, problem was I didn't know that. I've read the first two books, but I can't bring myself to read the rest.

But really. In the first book, The Cullens saved her from the Ponytail vampire guy and stopped her from turning. Then the Shirtless Furry clan saved her from being killed by another vampire, then Alice told her about what was happening to Edward, then she bought her plane tickets to Italy, and drove her to the town in Italy where the Anne Rice Rejects live, then pointed her in the right direction so all Bella really had to do was totter a few steps towards SparkleEdward.

[JME2]

Since it seems to be a vibrant discussion and it involves something Fantasy, I've brought it over here.

You brought it into the light of day? Then why isn't it burning up?

[chitoryu12]

Since it seems to be a vibrant discussion and it involves something Fantasy, I've brought it over here.

You brought it into the light of day? Then why isn't it burning up?

This thread just twinkles a bit now.

[montypython]

To my eternal shame, I've seen every Twilight movie to come out. I don't know why, but I just hand over money to chortle at how awful it is. I'm an idiot. My friend hates it too, but she wants to watch it for the same reason, so we do.

It's been said many times by many different people, but I think people who are really into Twilight and find it romantic as opposed to simply retarded have issues. It's the most unhealthy, fucked up 'relationship' seen on film (and I assume in books too). At its core, the entire message is loathsome.

* There's nothing in common between Bella and Edward (or Bella and Jacob) nor any apparent reason why they would want her so badly;
* Bella has no defining characteristics whatsoever (much has been made that she's an empty vessel so all the juvenile girls can self-insert themselves into her character);
* She's a thoroughly detestable person with no interest in anything whatsoever apart from her own desires, and gives not a fuck about anyone but herself. Not her father, her mother, her friends - not even Edward, arguably;
* Edward's a fucking psycho stalker; and
* Jacob's well on his way to becoming a rapist in Eclipse (the shit he says is just fucking creepy).

That said, Eclipse was so far the best movie in the series. Not that it says much.

That description reminds me of some rather crappy Japanese dating sims I'd rather not have heard about, albeit genderflipped.

[chitoryu12]

Stephanie Meyer claims that Bella's newfound popularity among the men in high school is based on her experience when she first went to college. I seriously doubt that, as she's obviously had very little experience with guys.