The Salvation War: Pantheocide. Part Eighty One Up

[MysteriousDarkLordv3]

I'm betting on other extra-universals being classic Faerie types - infinite abilities to actually change their own shape combined with the wonky worldview such an ability gives, along with illusion abilities like the Angels and Demons have.

Actually, I'm surprised that a lot of good information about Heaven and Hell hasn't gone through an agent named Robin Goodfellow ...

[Stuart]

I would say that your logic is flawed. Imagine a snake which is killing a gorilla (silverback) with its poisenous bite. Now you are able to kill the snake with a club.Would you have been able to kill the Gorilla with the same club you used to kill the snake (I mean if you are a average human being and not an american action hero)?

This somewhat misses the point. The reciprocity issue means that a club wielded in Universe A that can kill something in Universe B will also mean that the same club wielded in Universe A will lill something in Universe B. If something in Universe A can effect things in Universe B then the reverse holds true. Likewise if something in Universe B cannot affect things in Universe A then the analgous things in universe A cannot affect things in Universe B.

A club is a good example. If a club made of Universe A matter passes harmlessly through a being from Universe B it is because the differences in Universe A and Universe B matter are so different that interaction between them is impossible. Thus, a club made of Universe B matter will pass harmlessly through Universe A beings.

Of course it's possible to think up contorted situations in our universe where two people or whatevers cannot interact. That merely shows a profound misunderstanding of the reciprocity issue. Of course a club wielded by a gorilla will kill a man while the same club wielded by a human will not faze the gorilla. However, the club will interact with the target identically in both cases; it is simply that the effects of the interaction will not be comparable. If we had a case where a club wielded by a gorilla will pass harmlessly through a human but the same club wielded by a human will crush the gorilla's skull. then we have a breach of reciprocity.

[Stuart]

I think you might be mixing up the Universe-Three beings with the other "gods" that were driven out by Yahweh and Satan. I like the idea of the Universe-Three beings as truly strange creatures (like Cthulu), although I think Stuart nixed the whole "Cthulu" thing with his comment a while back about how the city in Universe-Three was not called R'yleh.

That wasn't me actually. I haven't actually ruled out R'yleh (Cthulhu fhtagn). However, what is the other side of the Minos Gate is a complete mystery. Any hypothesis that conforms with the known facts (second-life humans come out; whatever goes in NEVER comes out) is valid as a hypothesis. The other creatures referred to by Michael, the Aesir Spoiler

and the Baals plus a few others

inhabit other bubble-worlds in Universe Two. The reason why Earth was a scene of conflict between them was that it supported intelligent life which is very rare. Some pantheons owe their existance to folk memories of these other species, others are entirely invented.

[darksoul]

I would say that your logic is flawed. Imagine a snake which is killing a gorilla (silverback) with its poisenous bite. Now you are able to kill the snake with a club.Would you have been able to kill the Gorilla with the same club you used to kill the snake (I mean if you are a average human being and not an american action hero)?

This somewhat misses the point. The reciprocity issue means that a club wielded in Universe A that can kill something in Universe B will also mean that the same club wielded in Universe A will lill something in Universe B. If something in Universe A can effect things in Universe B then the reverse holds true. Likewise if something in Universe B cannot affect things in Universe A then the analgous things in universe A cannot affect things in Universe B.

A club is a good example. If a club made of Universe A matter passes harmlessly through a being from Universe B it is because the differences in Universe A and Universe B matter are so different that interaction between them is impossible. Thus, a club made of Universe B matter will pass harmlessly through Universe A beings.

Of course it's possible to think up contorted situations in our universe where two people or whatevers cannot interact. That merely shows a profound misunderstanding of the reciprocity issue. Of course a club wielded by a gorilla will kill a man while the same club wielded by a human will not faze the gorilla. However, the club will interact with the target identically in both cases; it is simply that the effects of the interaction will not be comparable. If we had a case where a club wielded by a gorilla will pass harmlessly through a human but the same club wielded by a human will crush the gorilla's skull. then we have a breach of reciprocity.

Perhaps the law should be phrased as to encompass possible interactions. So a club of UA matter can`t interact with UC matter, but matter is not the only thing in physics, if there is such things in UC as physics or matter at all. it should be, though.
maybe it`s a matter of density. As we perturb an smoke cloud, which we perceive as chaotic and fragile, so can we be perceived by beings of another dimension, one with laws that allow for life to exist in bodies with immense density of mass, or concentration of energy. A highly concentrated being can go through human flesh and normal density matter without harm or notice, as we go through air or water, while at the same time appearing invulnerable to our interactions with it. Appearing, of course, since the fact that it is interacting with us shows that we must be necessarily interacting with it, just maybe not in the same way.

how about if a club of UC matter (what the UC-bers CALL matter, that is) disrupt electrical equipment, or their electricity poison humans with radiation, or their speech is physically harmful in the same way a club is here. the picture is an universe just like this, with the same interactions this one have internally, but externally translated in bizarre equivalences with UA concepts. So we would have an Universe with an entire different yet the same set of laws of existence, and we could interact with it, somehow. where to interact, in their world or ours, or a middle ground of a kind... well, that´s another matter completely.

[GrayAnderson]

I think you might be mixing up the Universe-Three beings with the other "gods" that were driven out by Yahweh and Satan. I like the idea of the Universe-Three beings as truly strange creatures (like Cthulu), although I think Stuart nixed the whole "Cthulu" thing with his comment a while back about how the city in Universe-Three was not called R'yleh.

That wasn't me actually. I haven't actually ruled out R'yleh (Cthulhu fhtagn). However, what is the other side of the Minos Gate is a complete mystery. Any hypothesis that conforms with the known facts (second-life humans come out; whatever goes in NEVER comes out) is valid as a hypothesis. The other creatures referred to by Michael, the Aesir Spoiler

and the Baals plus a few others

inhabit other bubble-worlds in Universe Two. The reason why Earth was a scene of conflict between them was that it supported intelligent life which is very rare. Some pantheons owe their existance to folk memories of these other species, others are entirely invented.

Spoiler

Of course you would have those particular asshats be real...

[GrayAnderson]

(what the UC-bers CALL matter, that is)

So, if they open up a portal in California, would that be UC-LA?

[Night_stalker]

Aren't the lovecraftian gods/priests generaly huge? if so all we need is a general location (provided by satelites) and then we can hit it with every indirect weapon we have. problem solved =D?

Hard to say about the size, given that all who look upon Cthullu go mad. Well, that needs working satellites, and when we go into their home, I doubt they've got a working satelllite network for us to use, so basically we're screwed.

On a side note however, does anyone think that the Baldricks look similair to the Jersey Devil? Perhaps we might've finally solved that mystery...

[Nick79]

In Call of Cthulhu, the title monster itself was injured enough by a sailboat collision to return to sleep to regenerate. Even assuming a rather large period yacht, we're talking something that, other than the need to avoid looking at it too hard, is much less dangerous than, say, Godzilla, who most are more familiar with.

[Nematocyst]

Hard to say about the size, given that all who look upon Cthullu go mad. Well, that needs working satellites, and when we go into their home, I doubt they've got a working satelllite network for us to use, so basically we're screwed.

That says nothing about, as I say, indirect visual contact. Let's say you are looking at Cthulhu with NVG, or an infrared camera. Will you go mad?
Also, about their homes, we just stand on the other side of the portal and spam unguided rockets and cruise missiles through it, Macross style. Then we seal the portal.

On a side note however, does anyone think that the Baldricks look similair to the Jersey Devil? Perhaps we might've finally solved that mystery...

I thought it was described as being 'chest high' or so. Small for most Demons, even those in the lowest ranks.
But it could perfectly be an animal.
I wish we had more descriptions of the flora and fauna of Hell and Heaven. But the war comes first. I'm sure we'll get some of those in Lords of War.

[xthetenth]

In Call of Cthulhu, the title monster itself was injured enough by a sailboat collision to return to sleep to regenerate. Even assuming a rather large period yacht, we're talking something that, other than the need to avoid looking at it too hard, is much less dangerous than, say, Godzilla, who most are more familiar with.

There's always that, although I thought it was steam powered, not sail. Ramming from a sail ship would just be really wimpy. And I recommend sending an army of /b/tards, they probably won't be fazed, and if they are, they tend to be so nuts that a bit of insanity might just calm them down. The only issue is arming them, I wouldn't want to see the results of that.

[Nematocyst]

It's not like we want them to return, don't we?

[Stuart]

The Himilheothon Gate, The Eternal City, Heaven

Thirty eight thousand tons. The number echoed through Corporal William Bodie's mind as he shuffled up to the smaller doors set in the massive Himilheothon Gate. That estimated weight excluded the pearls that studded the wooden structure. Set in the road surface were dozens of curved strips of bronze that provided a path for the wheels at the foot of the Gate. What the ground pressure under the wheels amounted to, Bodie didn’t know and didn’t care. In any case he seriously doubted whether the main gate could be opened. It looked frozen in place from uncounted millennia of static disuse. Only the smaller doors were regularly opened and closed. Through them, a constant stream of second-life humans were entering the city.

The great wall of Heaven loomed over him. A hundred meters high and at least fifty thick. There was no way the track-head and the rest of the armies closing in on The Eternal City were going to get through that. It rather amused Bodie that he and the rest of the team had simply walked through the gate and thus became the first living humans inside The Eternal City. It helped matters, of course, that the Angels had such an appalling idea of security. The Ishim guarding the gate simply gave a wooden marker to each human as he went in and it was collected again as the human left. The whole system was designed to ensure that no human had the temerity to stay inside The Eternal City a moment longer than was necessary for them to pursue their duties. Faced with its first serious challenge, it had failed completely. But then, it had failed when faced by people who were unequalled experts at making security systems fail.

Bodie joined the stream of people passing through the doors, sliding unobtrusively past the Ishim on duty there. This was the point where amateurs always got it wrong. They either overplayed the nonchalant bit or were too obviously trying to avoid detection. The great art was simply to behave the way everybody else did. Anyway, Bodie already had his marker. It was a forgery of course, but that really didn’t matter. Once he was through the gate any challenge would be answered by his forged token and the Ishim would assume that it had been issued normally. All humans looked the same to them anyway.

Once through the gate, Bodie set off for the street edge on the south. He paused slightly to adjust the robe he was wearing and tighten the rope belt that held it in place. That same belt also held his pistol although what use a 9mm Sig-Sauer would be here was arguable at best. Pistol calibers had been 'redefined' since the Salvation War had started. Still, the P226 had a nice, comforting bulk to it. He glanced up; the sky still had streaks of dark gray across it. The original sight of heavenly blue skies with just enough small fluffy clouds to provide contrast had gone. When the Yanks popped that nuke, they had changed a lot of things.

The city block he approached was crowded by the standards of The Eternal City. It was mostly the abode of Ishim and they didn't live in the stately palaces occupied by the higher ranks of angels. The homes here reminded Bodie of the council houses he had grown up in. He took a closer look at the buildings in front of him. Studded with semi-precious stones just as those council houses long ago had pebble-dashed walls. The difference was the level of repair, these so-called palaces had plaster that was scabbing away and paint that was faded and peeling. In places, the wooden lathes that reinforced the plaster were visible. The Eternal City was very old, that much was obvious. The trouble was that in this case, old just meant 'so much more second-hand.'

Old it might be, and more than slightly run-down, but The Eternal City was still huge. It more than a twenty kilometer walk to the side road Bodie was looking for. Even in the temperate climate of Heaven that was still not something to be taken lightly, especially given the load he was carrying. Eventually, he recognized his turning and took it, heading down an alleyway barely fifty meters across. Here, the stones that embellished the walls were less glittering in their profusion and the signs of neglect and decay were stronger. Occasionally, there were even small areas of rubble on the stone of the streets. Bodie had noticed that, all the legends had said that the streets of the Eternal City were paved with gold but instead, they were a garish bronze-colored marble. Once in a while, the great slabs were cracked. Bodie ignored them; he was too busy counting buildings to worry about the state of the paving. At least that was what he thought until he tripped over one of the cracked slabs and nearly fell flat on his face.

Finally he reached the building the team had chosen. It was a disused temple, one that appeared to have been abandoned after its structural deterioration had reached dangerous proportions. Bodie climbed up the steps, cursing the fact that even the Ishim were a bit larger than humans and that made their steps uncomfortable to climb. Once in the main hall, he caught his breath and made for the rooms at the rear.

"No problems getting in and out then Bodie?" Sergeant Doyle was lazing between two fallen columns, a position that allowed him to watch the only entrance to the hall from a concealed yet comfortable position.

"Like babes in the nursery they are." Bodie dropped his load with relief. "They've got no idea."

"That's not surprising lads. They've never had any real infiltration efforts to worry about. Not as far as we know anyway." Captain Greg Crowleigh was also waiting in a concealed overwatch position. Unlike the guards at the City gates, his team never let their guard down. Although, the SAS team was beginning to wonder if the Angels at the Himilheothon Gate guards had ever had their guard up.

"They might have a lot more to worry about now." Bodie had picked up all the intelligence from the Outside Team on his visit. "There's Chinese armored recon in the woods outside and a Russian Spetsnaz group. They might be in here as well by now."

That caused a sudden silence. Crowleigh's team had never been one of the front-rank SAS sections, not until they had killed the gorgon Lakheenahuknaasi. By an odd quirk of fate that had resulted in them being the first living humans to take up residence in The Eternal City. Killing the gorgon hadn't lifted them to the top tier of teams but it had put them at the head of the second rank. Only, all the top-tier teams were tied down in Hell trying to get the problems there sorted. So, when this job had come up, Crowleigh and his men had got it. Sometimes things worked in strange ways.

"We'd better be damned careful then. We don't want to get our wires crossed. Especially since the HEA don't know we're here." That caused another outbreak of silence. This mission was just about as unofficial as it got. One thing that concerned everybody was whether they would get the word in time if it was decided to nuke the city into oblivion.

"Any word on how the HEA plans to get into the city?"

Bodie shook his head. "Rumor mill is working overtime but that wall seems to be chilling everybody. This city is fortified with a capital F. The current story is that the Russians will use gas again." That remark caused a series of whistles. Everybody remembered what the Russian sarin attack had done at the Phlegethon River.

"Boss, you'd better hear this." Private James Dempsey had a recording disk in his hand.

Crowleigh turned around, frowning at the interruption. "What is it man?"

"The temple we bugged? Well, there's just been a meeting in it. The local Ishim were assembled and addressed by an Elohim. The gist of it is that Yahweh is out. Michael-Lan has taken over."

"What?" Crowleigh was stunned. "A coup?"

"It hasn't been phrased like that. According to the announcement, Yahweh has been so distressed by the death of his son that he has blamed himself and gone into retreat. Apparently he is meditating on his actions and contemplating the future."

"Ah, he's dead then." Ray Doyle sounded positively chirpy.

"Undoubtedly. But Jesus has been killed as well?" Crowleigh thought for a second then realized there was more message to come. "What else?"

"Anyway, the message is that Yahweh has asked Michael-Lan to take over running Heaven until Yahweh considers himself fit to resume absolute rule. Until then, Michael-Lan has appointed a council of angels to help him rule. The first priority is to bring the war with the humans to an end and restore the 'natural order of things."

"We need to get word of this out immediately." Crowleigh decided that news of this importance had to go directly to Sir Michael Jackson. His orders were to have no contact with HEA headquarters but those orders had never envisaged a situation like this. He shouldered the responsibility for his decision and started the process of getting through to the HEA. In doing so, he and his team finally made it to the top tier of SAS units.

Over The Human Expeditionary Army, Heaven

Raphael-Lan-Michael, now offically in charge of communications as part of the provisional government of Heaven, hoped desperately that he was communicating well enough. While his wings drove him through the air towards the heart of the human army on the ground, his arms were desperately waving the largest white flag he had been able to find. In addition, he was frantically transmitting mental messages of surrender even though he guessed that the metal hats humans now wore would prevent those from being received and understood. Still, better to try it and fail than not try at all. Especially with humans around. Their tendancy to shoot first and shoot with lethal effect had been made all too clear.

Down below, he could see the long snaking columns that were making their way towards The Eternal City. There was no end of them, literally no end as far as he could see. He had adjusted his vision for its longest range but the lines of trucks and armored vehicles seemed to go on forever. The information coming in from the countryside suggested that this was just one of three great armies converging on The Eternal City. The frantic itching in his skin told him that the forces below had seen him and were already locking their weapons on him. Please don’t fire humans, I'm trying to bring peace.

For a moment he thought his pleas had been ignored. Four great bangs had surrounded him and he cringed expecting to feel the lash of iron fragments from the missiles lacerating his body. But, he had been spared that. It was just the crash the human aircraft made when they flew anywhere fast. This group formed up around him, one on each side, one behind, one in front. Then, with him nice and tightly boxed in, they started to change course. Raphael got the feeling he was being herded as if he was a helpless target. Then, he understood, that too the humans that was precisely what he was.

Headquarters, Human Expeditionary Army, Heaven.

"Anyway, we had no women in the army until the late 1960s. There had been, right up to the First World War but when the Germans reorganized us in the 1930s, that was a change they made. Then, the Army found they needed us and started recruiting. I was one of the first few intakes. Of course, they had made no preparations for us at all. None of the things we needed were there and the stores were reluctant to issue the things they had. After all, as the quartermaster said, they are called stores, not issues."

Petraeus, Jackson and Gillespie all laughed while they refreshed their glasses. Asanee eyed Petraeus carefully, he seemed to be recovering from the depression that had affected him after the nuclear destruction of the previous Angelic army. She topped up her own glass of whisky and resumed.

"They didn’t even have any underwear for us. We had to supply our own and civilian standard stuff didn’t last very long. Eventually, the Army got around to issuing the women soldiers with underwear. Guess what. It was camouflaged, the old tiger stripe pattern. What did they expect us to do? Run around a battlefield in our underwear?" There was another eruption of laughter and she eyed the other generals severely. "First person to say yes will be killed."

Petraeus wiped the tears of laughter from his eyes. "You think you had problems. One of my men actually shot me on a field exercise. Tripped over and his rifle discharged. I always said there were problems with the lethality of the old 5.56mm."

"I wouldn't recommend trying it again now." Australian General Ken Gillespie sounded concerned. "The .50 Beowulf SLAP is a lot nastier. My boys prefer the Winchester .458 though. The Beowulf is a bit short-ranged for them."

"My general experience," Petraeus was interrupted by a general groan at the pun. "Is that it is better not to get shot by any kind of bullet."

"Sirs, Ma'am, apologies for interrupting but we have an urgent message from the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing. Their F-15s just intercepted an angel flying over our front lines. They're escorting it in to a forward air defense field now."

"Escorting it in?" Jackson sounded surprised. "Didn't shoot it out of the sky?"

"It was waving a very large white flag, Sir. The pilots thought it was better to try and bring him in. Sir Michael, there's a message for you in the British comms center. They're asking you to go down there to see it."

Sir Michael Jackson frowned mightily at that. Senior generals did not go running around collecting their own messages. Unless they were very important or very sensitive indeed. "If you'll excuse me David, Ken, Asanee." He left hurriedly.

"So, another angel is defecting." Asanee looked at her glass. "Is it me or is the situation in The Eternal City falling apart?"

"It's not looking good for them." Petraeus suddenly looked a lot brighter. The fear of having to blast his way into The Eternal City was beginning to lift.

"General Gillespie Sir," the communications officer was back. "A message in the Australian section for you. Very sensitive they say."

"Thank you Captain. If you'll excuse me David?"

Petraeus nodded. When he had gone, he looked quizzically at the contents of his glass. "Don't you just hate to be the last person to know what's going on in your own army?"

"Pretty familiar feeling in ours David. We had a coup once, somebody forgot to tell the commander of a tank battalion what was going on. He arrived for work one day just in time to see the last M41 in his battalion leaving their laager. He ended up chasing them through the streets in a taxi. With Army this big from so many nations, things bound to be screwed up."

"David," Sir Michael Jackson was back. "I've just had word from our team inside the Eternal City. There's been a coup in Heaven or so it seems. The message is a little confused but it seems that Yahweh has been deposed and Michael-Lan has replaced him. According to the message, Yahweh has gone into seclusion for a long period of meditation and contemplation."

"Ah, so Michael killed him." Asanee nodded wisely. Like all Thai officers, she understood the subtle nuances in the announcements that followed a coup. She'd written more than one of them.

"That's what our team leader says as well. Anyway, according to the official version, Yahweh asked Michael-Lan to take over in his absence. He's formed a council of state or something to rule Heaven and he wants to end the war."

"Do we have any confirmation of this?" Petraeus snapped the words out.

"We do, David." Gillespie had returned, a big grin dominating his face. "Our team has reported the same thing. More or less. Apparently, there was one hell of a fight in the Ultimate Temple, virtually wrecked the place according to my people. One followed by a very big splash in that lake we've all been looking at."

"Just where are your people?" Jackson sounded envious. The Australian message sounded as if their insert team was close to the city center while his were in the outskirts. "On second thoughts, don't answer that."

"And we have an Angel surrendering. This isn't a coincidence people." Petraeus turned to his communications panel. "call General Dorokov and General Ti Jen-chieh. Then get through to General James Conway. Tell him to get his Marine Corps task group ready. Major staff meeting coming up as soon as I've heard from that angel."

[Scottish Ninja]

And the prophecy comes closer and closer to its fulfillment.

[PaperJack]

...Then, he understood, that too the humans that was precisely what he was...

typo ?

[tim31]

SASR Dares!

[Guardsman Bass]

That was a very interesting, and more specifically detailed, chapter. I'm curious as to how the human forces are going to proceed with Michael-Lan throwing the gates open. And how people back on Earth would react to the war suddenly just ending, like that.

[Edward Yee]

Thought that was a typo too... also Stuart, you might want to identify Gillespie earlier on while he, Petraeus and Jackson are refilling their glasses. I had to do a bit of scrambling to figure out who he was, and it might be better to identify his position as well to why a seemingly random general (I had to wiki the Chief of Army bit) is sharing a HQ with the CGHEA.

... Jackson, that's what y'all get for sending the B-Team *cough* Seriously though, welcome BACK Captain Crowleigh!

I am surprised that he wasn't issued a higher-caliber weapon, unless concealment was the priority? Speaking of which, I'm assuming that the M4A5 and its M16A# counterpart were also issued for use in Heaven, since until the nukes there wouldn't have been the same issues.

[Kodiak]

Kudos on another sporting good chapter. Nice to see that Michael's thought through waging peace as well as war.

[Pelranius]

And there we go again. I wonder why Raphael was chosen as the only messenger? It might have been more wise to send out several more angels each with a white flag.

[GrayAnderson]

Another nice one. Quite interesting...and it's interesting to see the big wigs all cutting up like that.

[Nematocyst]

You know, I was thinking about Crowleigh and the B team of SAS since they killed the Gorgon. And my dream came true: they deserved the honor of doing that.

And there we go again. I wonder why Raphael was chosen as the only messenger? It might have been more wise to send out several more angels each with a white flag.

One Angel? Parley.
Many Angels? A battlegroup.

[Erra]

Excellent chapter. Can't wait for more!

[Atlan]

Looks like the SAS was in the city well before the nuke was popped. Wouldn't surprise me if they got in on day one.

[Night_stalker]

Badass job from the SAS, as always! So, how long before we actually start seeing M1A2s rolling down the streets of the Eternal City?

[Simon_Jester]

Of course it's possible to think up contorted situations in our universe where two people or whatevers cannot interact. That merely shows a profound misunderstanding of the reciprocity issue. Of course a club wielded by a gorilla will kill a man while the same club wielded by a human will not faze the gorilla. However, the club will interact with the target identically in both cases; it is simply that the effects of the interaction will not be comparable. If we had a case where a club wielded by a gorilla will pass harmlessly through a human but the same club wielded by a human will crush the gorilla's skull. then we have a breach of reciprocity.

The only exception is when we posit a viable mechanism for this to happen: if we could create the "utility fog" imagined by some supporters of nanotechnology*, it's quite conceivable that a gorilla could swing a club that would pass (more or less) harmlessly through the dispersed cloud, only to have the cloud reform itself, solidify, and proceed to bludgeon the gorilla to death with its own club.

But that isn't an asymmetrical interaction; it's an interaction under symmetrical laws of physics... but with asymmetric effects. The catch is that asymmetric effects can become really impressive when there's a massive difference in capability. The difference in degree becomes a difference in kind, as this story has been illustrating since the first chapter of Armageddon when a flying herald-demon started wondering why his skin was all itchy and decided not to worry about it... only to get torn to shreds by a salvo of AMRAAMs.

Most stories about the supernatural posit such a difference in capability, not an asymmetric interaction; they just do a lousy job of explaining it. If the Devil has superhuman powers of persuasion, it's because he's doing something that bears the same resemblance to normal persuasion that a rocket launcher bears to a slingshot: same laws of physics, very different effect. Likewise, if demons are immune to any weapon not enchanted with the appropriate hocus-pocus, they see it as the same principle: their immunity to bullets is seen by the reader as being like wood's "immunity" to a magnet, in that the magnet has no noticeable effect on the wood.

I think you draw so much flak from people usedto 'conventional' supernatural settings because on some level they do model humanity's relation with supernatural beings (be they elves, vampires, demons, or gods) as symmetrical... but with a difference in capability so large in the magical beings' favor that we're hopelessly screwed when trying to fight them. For whatever reason, they prefer to read stories where wizards and gods are conquistadores and we're the Aztecs.

But they're generally not articulate enough about their assumptions to put it that way, so they wind up sitting around and spluttering.

*I'm not saying it's possible, but it's at least something we can describe and discuss intelligently.

The Himilheothon Gate, The Eternal City, Heaven
The great wall of Heaven loomed over him. A hundred meters high and at least fifty thick. There was no way the track-head and the rest of the armies closing in on The Eternal City were going to get through that. It rather amused Bodie that he and the rest of the team had simply walked through the gate and thus became the first living humans inside The Eternal City. It helped matters, of course, that the Angels had such an appalling idea of security. The Ishim guarding the gate simply gave a wooden marker to each human as he went in and it was collected again as the human left. The whole system was designed to ensure that no human had the temerity to stay inside The Eternal City a moment longer than was necessary for them to pursue their duties.

The hallway pass to Heaven? I like.

Once through the gate, Bodie set off for the street edge on the south. He paused slightly to adjust the robe he was wearing and tighten the rope belt that held it in place. That same belt also held his pistol although what use a 9mm Sig-Sauer would be here was arguable at best.

I must be picturing this wrong, because that sounds like open carry, which would be kind of counterproductive to the whole "look and act just like everyone else."

That was a very interesting, and more specifically detailed, chapter. I'm curious as to how the human forces are going to proceed with Michael-Lan throwing the gates open.

Well, if he actually does manage to throw gates that big open... I don't know about the rest of humanity, but I'm damn well going to give him a round of applause; he's earned it by sheer civil engineering skills.