Dungeons and Dragons 3.5e Campaign Interest Thread

[Serafina]

A bit early, but the parties are:

Party A:
Kheitain
Stormin
Hellion
Hawkwings

Party B:
Lance
Serafina
Sorchus
Solauren

Does anybody see a major imbalance between these parties? I tried to put in a tank, a divine caster, a skill monkey, and a DPS into each.

So, let me get this straight:

Party A:
Kheitan: Fighter/Cleric - Tank
Stormin: Cleric - Healer
Hellion: Some sort of crazy dragon bard
Hawkwings: Ranger(Scout?) - Ranged Combat


Party B:
Lance: Binder - Tank
Serafina: Druid/Wizard/Arcane Hierophant - Caster
Sorchus: Spellthief - Skill monkey
Solauren: Swordmage - Close Combat Damage

Group A seems to lack a skill monkey. I would REALLY suggest that Hakwings takes level in scout, since that is also a skill monkey and actually makes his ranged combat capabilities better. Other than that, a solid group.
Group B looks very good, i just have to make sure that i keep up with the healing. I guess i have to shuffle my class selection by level around a bit to get early access to level 2 healing spells - which means later access to arcane spells.
We are a bit weak on ranged damage unless someone is multiclassing in a way i am not aware of, but that is not too bad.

[Norade]

A bit early, but the parties are:

Party A:
Kheitain
Stormin
Hellion
Hawkwings

Party B:
Lance
Serafina
Sorchus
Solauren

Does anybody see a major imbalance between these parties? I tried to put in a tank, a divine caster, a skill monkey, and a DPS into each.

So, let me get this straight:

Party A:
Kheitan: Fighter/Cleric - Tank
Stormin: Cleric - Healer
Hellion: Some sort of crazy dragon bard
Hawkwings: Ranger(Scout?) - Ranged Combat


Party B:
Lance: Binder - Tank
Serafina: Druid/Wizard/Arcane Hierophant - Caster
Sorchus: Spellthief - Skill monkey
Solauren: Swordmage - Close Combat Damage

Group A seems to lack a skill monkey. I would REALLY suggest that Hakwings takes level in scout, since that is also a skill monkey and actually makes his ranged combat capabilities better. Other than that, a solid group.
Group B looks very good, i just have to make sure that i keep up with the healing. I guess i have to shuffle my class selection by level around a bit to get early access to level 2 healing spells - which means later access to arcane spells.
We are a bit weak on ranged damage unless someone is multiclassing in a way i am not aware of, but that is not too bad.

Both groups have a bit of a weakness, but that was unavoidable with the builds that were laid down. In all each now has something to overcome as a team and that in itself already starts the role playing.

[Serafina]

Yes, sure, i just wanted to mention them.
As i said, if Hawkings plays a scout instead of a Ranger, then he has enough skill points to emulate a Rogue and has the trapfinding class ability.

As for the second group's main weakness, this is going to get a bit better once i get a decent arcane caster level, but we will still need to go into melee. Mostly, that is not that much of a problem.

[Norade]

No problem, I'm just glad to see two teams of roughly equal power.

[Serafina]

I'm sorry, but if this is still lances character, i see a lot of problems with it.
First - how are you going to afford that special Full plate? You have a maximum of 200 gp at the beginning of the game, there is no way you can afford a 1.500+ gp armor.
Second, how are you going to use it? You have a vestige that grants you medium armor proficiency, but none for heavy armor.
Third - what is a "Dragon Water Orc"? There is a Water Orc in UA, but apparently you made your character a Half-Dragon as well. Or a Draconic Creature (Draconomicon). Both have level adjustments.
Fourth, how did you get the 16 skillpoints? You only get 2 per level - since you have no Int-Modifier, you only have 8 skillpoints.
Fifth, you have base stats of 14/12/16/12/8/16 (before race modifiers), assuming that you are only a Water Orc. That means that you spent a total of 6+4+10+4+0+10=34 points to build your character, 2 more than allowed. If you have a template race, this might not be the case tough.

Overall, pretty much everything about this character is wrong. You have too many skillpoints, attributes and money.
You either have to correct that a lot, be really nice to Norade or show us if you are using another character sheet.


Lance, i would advise you to explain exactly how you built your character, including the sourcebooks you used. Just to make sure that nothing is wrong with it.

[Norade]

The special full plate was from a Vestige he can't cast yet, and he would have been able to use it if he were able make the pact yet. I never even looked down beyond that and his race because those needed fixing and explaining first.

[Serafina]

Well, all Lance has to do to make the character legitimate is:
-Limit his race to water-ork
-Have 14/12/15/12/8/16 base attributes or another combination that saves 2 points
-Throw out two skills or reduce all skills to 2
-Alternatively, reduce Con by another point and invest it into 2 points of Intelligence, reducing all skills to 3 or throwing out one
-Buy any light armor or Hide/Scale armor or Chainmail (up to +5 AC, most likely +4)

then your character doesn't break any rules of the Campain as fas as i can see. You can still upgrade your armor later on, of course - and the one point less in constitution will be straighented out at level four.

[Dark Hellion]

Lance took Practiced Binder which increases his binding level by 2 for the purposes of determining what Vestige he can buy. Binders are really good early game because they have great, versatile starts. They lose power over levels until they get 6th level vestiges and can bind Zcyrll, then they become summoning spamming + versatile thingy. They tend to fill 1 role per day.

There is a no LA dragon template from Races of the Dragon but it does have some RP requirements attached to get it. Its similar to Necropolitan I believe in that it is technically legitimate to start the game with but it depends on your DM.

His character is legal by my examination (there might be something fiddly I missed) but it is very high powered. Everything in his build is going towards making it good. If you make him drop the dragon template (which basically just removes disadvantages to being a water-orc) he'll be about on par buildwise with everyone else. I know I could cheese out my guy more by selecting real class that doesn't try to sing my opponents to death but I would be far and away the best character in the game if I did that, and I would rather sing about how dragons LITERALLY sang Eberron into existence than just spam Alter Self and Polymorph.

[Serafina]

Lance took Practiced Binder which increases his binding level by 2 for the purposes of determining what Vestige he can buy. Binders are really good early game because they have great, versatile starts. They lose power over levels until they get 6th level vestiges and can bind Zcyrll, then they become summoning spamming + versatile thingy. They tend to fill 1 role per day.

According to my version of the Tome of Magic, it simply grants a secondary benefit to the Binding.
Improved Binding does that, however. But only for the purpose of determining the right vestige.

Reviewing his character with that in mind and the Reborn of Bahamut race, it seems legal. However, he still appears to have too many skillpoints.

However, i would simply disallow starting as a Dragonborn of Bahamut, it is hardly intended that way and the GM can of course rule against it regardless of that anyway.

[Norade]

With Bind Vestige and Practiced Binder he can bind one of Amon, Aym, Leraje, Naberlus, or Ronove and gain part of their power set in addition to whatever else he has bound at the time. Which would be a full binding of one of the five I mentioned above. If he didn't have any binder class levels that list would open up a bit more, but he does so those are the secondary options he's stuck with according to the copy I have.

As for a no LA dragon template, I wouldn't mind so much if the abuse wasn't so obvious now that I'm more awake to look things over. Not to mention that being a Dragonborn would mean that binding a vestige that requires you to be an unrepentant thief really doesn't fit.

He only has 8 skill points at first level, not the 20 he has spent so that is wrong. Not to mention that being a Water Ork he also only has 1 starting feat so he can't have Practiced Binder yet.

At least his stats are right for the starting races that he picked...

Lance, this character needs some work and you might want to PM me as you seem to have missed the purpose of this game and missed my warnings against trying to build purely for power.

[Serafina]

Actually, he can have the feat, Soul Binding (the prerequisite) is a class feature which he has.

But yes, this is pretty blatantly a pure power-build - he has absolutely no justification for being a Servant of Bahamut, especially while being an unapologetic thief at the same time.
He also cheated with his skill points - and for some reason, he has 7 PP as currency!

I'm not sure if he is actively trying to cheat, but this is just a no-flavor max-power character.

[Norade]

Actually, he can have the feat, Soul Binding (the prerequisite) is a class feature which he has.

But yes, this is pretty blatantly a pure power-build - he has absolutely no justification for being a Servant of Bahamut, especially while being an unapologetic thief at the same time.
He also cheated with his skill points - and for some reason, he has 7 PP as currency!

I'm not sure if he is actively trying to cheat, but this is just a no-flavor max-power character.

He might have mixed his feats up, but currently he has Soul Binder from his class, and Practiced Binder which requires him to have Bind Vestige. If he had Improved Binding listed I would have to agree with you that it was legal.

To have spent 100gp on his transformation, 18gp on weapons, 7gp on his shield, 34gp on basic items and clothing, and have 77gp 9sp left would require a roll of 25 on 5d4... I'm really starting to suspect out and out cheating here.

[Serafina]

He actually has PP - Platin pieces left over. I would like to say that this is an error, but i really am not that sure...

If he wants to play a powerful character, that's fine by me. It has to be, i am playing one on my own after all.
What he is primarily doing, however, is pure min-maxing and powergaming - which i am not, otherwise i would not have been an Elf, started with a weak Animal Companion, a robe, Spontaneous Rejuvenation (spontaneous summoning is way better) and so on.
Now, it looks like he is actually trying to cheat. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he is actually doing that then he has no place in any group.

[Kheitain]

If he wants to play a powerful character, that's fine by me. It has to be, i am playing one on my own after all.
What he is primarily doing, however, is pure min-maxing and powergaming - which i am not, otherwise i would not have been an Elf, started with a weak Animal Companion, a robe, Spontaneous Rejuvenation (spontaneous summoning is way better) and so on.
Now, it looks like he is actually trying to cheat. I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he is actually doing that then he has no place in any group.

I agree, from what I understood this game was supposed to be primarily for characters built with fluff in mind first so we could explore Eberron. I would be the character Norade convinced not to take Craft: Dye and not to be a Halfling Barbarian.) I've nothing against people building to be powerful, so long as there is some character left under the stats, but this is getting a tad rediculous.

[Norade]

I got a PM stating he was banned from the last D&D game on this forum so I have my doubts about keeping him. The biggest issue is one party losing a tank and how to replace that...

[Dark Hellion]

I'll run a Crusader for the other party if you want. I have always wanted to run a RKV so I can totally RP him as an emo warforged. Prepare for more hilarious times.

[Norade]

I'm going to give lance until around this time tomorrow and if not we'll see what everybody wants to do.

[Dark Hellion]

Wow, I didn't read the items of Lance at all. There is much disturbance in the force with that. I don't actually ever look at mundane items because no one ever spends more than like 50gp on them and everyone just starts with like 7gp 4 sp 7cp. Lance has more water on him than my character weighs and a bunch of other BS.

Lance definitely has some 'splaining to do. Otherwise, I can play a White Dragon Loredrake Great Wyrm Jungle Kobold Sorceror with Greater Draconic Right and totally break the game system. Or I could just play a wizard.

[lance]

Well, all Lance has to do to make the character legitimate is:
-Limit his race to water-ork
-Have 14/12/15/12/8/16 base attributes or another combination that saves 2 points
-Throw out two skills or reduce all skills to 2
-Alternatively, reduce Con by another point and invest it into 2 points of Intelligence, reducing all skills to 3 or throwing out one
-Buy any light armor or Hide/Scale armor or Chainmail (up to +5 AC, most likely +4)

then your character doesn't break any rules of the Campain as fas as i can see. You can still upgrade your armor later on, of course - and the one point less in constitution will be straighented out at level four.

Sorry, I messed up quite a bit on my character sheet.
Skills-I forgot I already put ranks into some things, so I had about twice what I should of had. My skills should be Intimidate, Gather Info, and Profession.

I had the wrong Feat listed, it should of been Improved Binding. The other one I both didn't have the requirements for and I possessed the anti-requirement.

Money-I didn't see the part where the Draconic Ritual costed money. It was pretty blatant power gaming, so I dropped the template and took 2 points from Dex and stuck them into Con.

That should be every thing. If anybody sees anything I missed feel free to say something.

I got a PM stating he was banned from the last D&D game on this forum so I have my doubts about keeping him.

I don't recall that happening. I remember dropping from a game.

[Norade]

Sorry lance, I was going off of info PM'ed from a long time board member and he got a name wrong. I just tend to get paranoid about power gamers especially on a web forum and when I see a player asking about flaws and traits who then shows me a sheet like what you had. Just work on the issues and PM me when you get a new post up.

[Serafina]

Lance has corrected his race and attributes.
He has 1 HP too much, he should only have ten (D8+2).
His equipment has not changed at all, tough it should be correct except for his excess money.
He still has nearly three times of the skill points he actually has - 20 instead of 8 (excluding the free profession).
His feat is corrected now.

I would like to note that the armor-summoning appears a bit fishy and exploitable, the armor has no stated time limit. I think it is reasonable to assume that it is supposed to vanish as soon as the Vestige is dismissed or the armor taken off.

[Serafina]

Oh, sod that. He only has four ranks in Gather Information and Intimidation. If they are class skills, thats 8 points - and we don't use class skills.
Except for the 1 HP too much, the character seem perfectly fine.

[lance]

Oh, sod that. He only has four ranks in Gather Information and Intimidation. If they are class skills, thats 8 points - and we don't use class skills.
Except for the 1 HP too much, the character seem perfectly fine.

Fixed- I should be good to go then.

I would like to note that the armor-summoning appears a bit fishy and exploitable, the armor has no stated time limit. I think it is reasonable to assume that it is supposed to vanish as soon as the Vestige is dismissed or the armor taken off.

That would be an acceptable ruling.

[Norade]

The summoned armor is from a Vestige he can't bind until his character is 3rd level. You count as two levels higher for pact making only with the feat you took thus your average roll to bind a being to you is 15 instead of 13 that is all that changes, you may still only bind first level beings.

[lance]

The summoned armor is from a Vestige he can't bind until his character is 3rd level. You count as two levels higher for pact making only with the feat you took thus your average roll to bind a being to you is 15 instead of 13 that is all that changes, you may still only bind first level beings.

No, "Your effective binder level is 2 higher than normal
for the purpose of determining the level of vestige you can
bind. This benefit does not increase your binder level in any
other circumstance"
It allows me to summon a higher level vestige than normal.