Film evidence of FTL sensors

[Azron_Stoma]

Supposedly, this one person doesn't believe that they have FTL sensors in Star Wars, regardless of what the Novels and EU say, their argument is based on the scene in ANH when han comes out of hyperspace and finds alderaan not there anymore, the person's assumption is that if they had FTL sensors they would have noticed Alderaan was gone, or how they couldn't detect the Death Star and thought it was a "small moon" at first.

Between the speed of Hyperdrive and relatively short range of sensors compared to that speed, then it doesn't seem that implausible, combined with the jamming coming from the DS.

I was wondering if we could drown this instance with examples of scenes that are proof of FTL capable sensors, to the point where even if there is no other explanation for han not noticing Alderaan missing, we can simply discard it as an outlier.

I like having no way for my opponent to even pretend to logically continue their argument, so any further pressing on their part would just expose their bias/stupidity.

Already explained the whole galaxy wide empire thing, as well as the fact that they have real time Communications, but apparently according to this person that's not enough, so their bias/stupidity is probably already exposed well enough.

I've always heard that there are some trektards out there who think that star wars have no FTL sensors, but this is my first time ever encountering one.

[Havok]

What do you mean 'FTL sensors'? Sensors that can work in hyperspace to detect things outside of hyperspace? Sensors that can detect things in hyperspace? Or sensors that literally go FTL?

The Death Star was able to track the Millennium Falcon while it was traveling through hyperspace or was able to pick up the signal of it's homing beacon once it left hyperspace half a galaxy away. Either one of those are pretty fucking impressive and demonstrates excellent sensors, range and capability.

The thing with the MF not detecting Alderaan being destroyed though, is that all it was doing was going to where Alderaan was. There was zero reason to think there was anything wrong with the planet, let alone that it would be destroyed so why would Han be scanning for anything. As for detecting that the DS was a station and not a moon, they had just spotted it and about 10 seconds later deduced, without sensors, that it was a space station. They didn't even have time to turn the sensors on.

But really, the idea that any FTL sci fi power doesn't have FTL sensors seems retarded. The sensors have to go faster than the ship or they would constantly crash into objects.

[Patrick Degan]

Only one question needs examining: do SW sensors receive and relay data over large spatial distances to operators with no time-lag? If the answer is yes, you're looking at FTL sensors in operation.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Only one question needs examining: do SW sensors receive and relay data over large spatial distances to operators with no time-lag? If the answer is yes, you're looking at FTL sensors in operation.

Oh you mean where Palpatine individually calls clone commanders and waits until he can see their holotransmission before he gives an order?

[DotS]

The thing with the MF not detecting Alderaan being destroyed though, is that all it was doing was going to where Alderaan was. There was zero reason to think there was anything wrong with the planet, let alone that it would be destroyed so why would Han be scanning for anything.

Because there might be an ISD parking right where he wants to drop out of hyperspace or something.. Just going there blindly doesn't seem very safe actually.

I also wonder if they arrived there close to where Alderaan was. Because if that's the case, Han has either a large computer telling him every single position of every planet at any moment (they move if you remember) or he sensor-checked the area...

Maybe the MF sensors were just incapable of telling if it's a large chunk of rocks or Alderaan. Han saw something large where Alderaan was supposed to be on his little shit radar screen or whatever he has and just went there, assuming it's Alderaan.

[Xess]

I also wonder if they arrived there close to where Alderaan was. Because if that's the case, Han has either a large computer telling him every single position of every planet at any moment (they move if you remember) or he sensor-checked the area...

I'm pretty sure the computer you speak of exists and is called the navicomputer. I haven't seen ANH in a while but I think Han mentions using it to jump to hyperspace when leaving Tatooine.

[Havok]

Only one question needs examining: do SW sensors receive and relay data over large spatial distances to operators with no time-lag? If the answer is yes, you're looking at FTL sensors in operation.

Oh you mean where Palpatine individually calls clone commanders and waits until he can see their holotransmission before he gives an order?

That was in a time of war when those said Clone Commanders were on mission, some of which may have been behind enemy lines. Getting visual confirmation seems like a good idea as well if you are going to order the deaths of you best soldiers and generals. And that is the holonet, not sensors.

[Havok]

The thing with the MF not detecting Alderaan being destroyed though, is that all it was doing was going to where Alderaan was. There was zero reason to think there was anything wrong with the planet, let alone that it would be destroyed so why would Han be scanning for anything.

Because there might be an ISD parking right where he wants to drop out of hyperspace or something.. Just going there blindly doesn't seem very safe actually.

And you know that Han's sensors weren't scanning for that how? You are assuming that you just turn sensors to 'On' and they will automatically pick up... everything. Not how it works.

I also wonder if they arrived there close to where Alderaan was. Because if that's the case, Han has either a large computer telling him every single position of every planet at any moment (they move if you remember) or he sensor-checked the area...

Yeah, it's called a 'navicomputer'. Watching the movie helps. As for how close he dropped out of hyperspace from Alderaan... I don't know if you can determine that from the movie. He is flying with the Princess of the planet so I doubt he is worried about security, but given his lifestyle, he may have dropped out far enough from the planet that he wouldn't have been detected, yet still close enough to be in the expanding debris field from the planets destruction.

Maybe the MF sensors were just incapable of telling if it's a large chunk of rocks or Alderaan. Han saw something large where Alderaan was supposed to be on his little shit radar screen or whatever he has and just went there, assuming it's Alderaan.

Again, watch the movie. The computer alerts them that they are coming up on Alderaan's coordinates. It is a safe bet to assume that the navicomputer has some leeway built into it though as far as redirecting the ship, which would indicate FTL sensors.

[Crazedwraith]

I think they have FTL sensors that work in real space. I don't think they have sensors that work while they're actually in hyperspace. The Alderaan scene coupled with many similar scenes in the X-Wing books where the squadron drop out of hyperspace and have no idea what's going on.

Which is probably one of the reasons pre-navigation is so important once they're in hyperspace, they're blind.

Of course ANH also has the "Imperial Slugs. I told you I'd out run them' line, which could be used to indicate they have sensors that work in hyperspace, otherwise how would Han know they'd outrun them? Unless the trip actually require to hyperspace jumps with a real space reversion in between but that's not even hinted at in the film.

[Batman]

He is flying with the Princess of the planet so I doubt he is worried about security,

No he wasn't, not when they arrived at Alderaan. Leia only came aboard once they 'rescued' her from the Death Star

[Havok]

He is flying with the Princess of the planet so I doubt he is worried about security,

No he wasn't, not when they arrived at Alderaan. Leia only came aboard once they 'rescued' her from the Death Star

Oh yeah. Shit. Guess I should go watch the movie.

[Deathstalker]

The Imperial Garrison on Endor was able to see the Rebel Fleet while it was still in hyperspace as it approached the moon and the DS II.

It might be a case of having the right sensors at the right spot.

[Stofsk]

Only one question needs examining: do SW sensors receive and relay data over large spatial distances to operators with no time-lag? If the answer is yes, you're looking at FTL sensors in operation.

Oh you mean where Palpatine individually calls clone commanders and waits until he can see their holotransmission before he gives an order?

That was in a time of war when those said Clone Commanders were on mission, some of which may have been behind enemy lines. Getting visual confirmation seems like a good idea as well if you are going to order the deaths of you best soldiers and generals. And that is the holonet, not sensors.

If SW can send and receive FTL communications, it should have FTL sensors as well. The two technologies are similar enough where one means the other.

[adam_grif]

The Imperial Garrison on Endor was able to see the Rebel Fleet while it was still in hyperspace as it approached the moon and the DS II.

Couldn't that just have been Holonet communications? Maybe they can't track them through hyperspace, but the ships themselves might be indicating their own position to other imperial ships or some sort of centralized command.

If SW can send and receive FTL communications, it should have FTL sensors as well. The two technologies are similar enough where one means the other.

FTL sensors in that they can detect specific FTL signals. It doesn't follow that they can use some sort of hyperspace radar, that images things in hyperspace and/or real-space. Without knowing more about the physics, or having direct evidence of them acting like that, we can't say.

[Lord Relvenous]

I also wonder if they arrived there close to where Alderaan was. Because if that's the case, Han has either a large computer telling him every single position of every planet at any moment (they move if you remember) or he sensor-checked the area...

I'm pretty sure the computer you speak of exists and is called the navicomputer. I haven't seen ANH in a while but I think Han mentions using it to jump to hyperspace when leaving Tatooine.

Han mentions making calculations for making the jump to lightspeed (which he mentions while working with the navicomputer) and then later says "it'll take a few moments to get the coordinates from the navicomputer."

[Stofsk]

If SW can send and receive FTL communications, it should have FTL sensors as well. The two technologies are similar enough where one means the other.

FTL sensors in that they can detect specific FTL signals. It doesn't follow that they can use some sort of hyperspace radar, that images things in hyperspace and/or real-space.

Whether they have a hyperspace radar is sort of dependent on whether they have a hyperspace radio... which they do.

Without knowing more about the physics, or having direct evidence of them acting like that, we can't say.

Han says in Star Wars that he's managed to lose the Imperials, who evidently were pursuing them. This was well after they had jumped away from Tattooine and enough time had passed for Obi-wan to give rudimentary lightsabre instruction to Luke.

The Empire also tracked them to Yavin too. And Deathstalker made the point that the Endor bunker screen could be interpreted as being the Rebel Fleet about to jump out of hyperspace and arrive in orbit.

[adam_grif]

Whether they have a hyperspace radar is sort of dependent on whether they have a hyperspace radio... which they do.

They have devices that provide real-time communication across galactic distances. Whether this is or is not analogous to how you use radio devices on Earth isn't relevant, because that doesn't mean it's literally the same and everything you can do with radio waves you can do with holonet stuff. Hyperspace radar via this would require reflection/absorption of magical... whatever stuff this operates on, then detection for ranging. Which we have no idea about, since the physics are unexplained.

Han says in Star Wars that he's managed to lose the Imperials, who evidently were pursuing them. This was well after they had jumped away from Tattooine and enough time had passed for Obi-wan to give rudimentary lightsabre instruction to Luke.

Did they have any communication between those scenes? There's also the possibility that he was doing some sort of jump-change angle-jump thing to prevent them from working out where they might have been going by tracking the angle they jumped away from.

The Empire also tracked them to Yavin too.

The empire tracked them to Yavin with a tracking beacon of some kind, which is presumably just a secure connection to the somewhere in the empire, or some sort of superluminal omnidirectional broadcast of their position. Either way that's nothing new or special, and doesn't mean they can actually detect things that aren't deliberately giving themselves away.

And Deathstalker made the point that the Endor bunker screen could be interpreted as being the Rebel Fleet about to jump out of hyperspace and arrive in orbit.

Ah shit, I misread that earlier as "imperial fleet in hyperspace" instead of rebel fleet. Brainfart. Which I why I said the stuff about the imperials communicating their position to each other...

And what do you mean "interpreted as"?

[Stofsk]

Whether they have a hyperspace radar is sort of dependent on whether they have a hyperspace radio... which they do.

They have devices that provide real-time communication across galactic distances. Whether this is or is not analogous to how you use radio devices on Earth isn't relevant, because that doesn't mean it's literally the same and everything you can do with radio waves you can do with holonet stuff. Hyperspace radar via this would require reflection/absorption of magical... whatever stuff this operates on, then detection for ranging. Which we have no idea about, since the physics are unexplained.

You're right that without knowing the specifics, it would be impossible to know for sure. All I'm saying is that there's a link between communications technology and sensor technology, so if you have one its implied you have the other.

Han says in Star Wars that he's managed to lose the Imperials, who evidently were pursuing them. This was well after they had jumped away from Tattooine and enough time had passed for Obi-wan to give rudimentary lightsabre instruction to Luke.

Did they have any communication between those scenes? There's also the possibility that he was doing some sort of jump-change angle-jump thing to prevent them from working out where they might have been going by tracking the angle they jumped away from.

I'm not sure what you mean, but after they jump to hyperspace from Tattoine, the scene jumps to the Death Star blowing up Alderaan, and then jumps back to the Falcon and Luke is doing his thing with the lightsabre and Obi-wan keels over. It's impossible to say how long the Falcon had been in hyperspace at that point, but I think Han's line implies the Falcon needed to do something to shake off pursuit, and he had been in the cockpit for awhile, otherwise his line wouldn't make sense. And if the Imps can pursue them, they must be able to see where they're going.

The Empire also tracked them to Yavin too.

The empire tracked them to Yavin with a tracking beacon of some kind, which is presumably just a secure connection to the somewhere in the empire, or some sort of superluminal omnidirectional broadcast of their position. Either way that's nothing new or special, and doesn't mean they can actually detect things that aren't deliberately giving themselves away.

Leia hypothesised that they must be tracking them, it's the only explanation for their escape. Han boasted 'not this ship' - which implies the Falcon has some kind of sensor-spoofing gear (which further corroborates his earlier line about evading imperial pursuit). It might be some kind of burst-fire communication device the empire installed, but wouldn't that be detected by them on the Falcon? On the other hand, if it's something which was done to the Falcon's sensor-spoofing gear, then Han might have felt confident they were safe but wouldn't know the device was compromised.

And Deathstalker made the point that the Endor bunker screen could be interpreted as being the Rebel Fleet about to jump out of hyperspace and arrive in orbit.

Ah shit, I misread that earlier as "imperial fleet in hyperspace" instead of rebel fleet. Brainfart. Which I why I said the stuff about the imperials communicating their position to each other...

And what do you mean "interpreted as"?

Saxton claims that it's the Imperial fleet moving into position (as proof that SW acceleration is measured in thousands of gees). I'm no longer convinced of this as I once was, and having it be the Rebel Fleet approaching the DS2 and Endor in hyperspace works better, especially considering Leia looked at that screen and said 'Hurry Han, the Rebel Fleet will be here at any moment.'

[Deathstalker]

Saxton claims that it's the Imperial fleet moving into position (as proof that SW acceleration is measured in thousands of gees). I'm no longer convinced of this as I once was, and having it be the Rebel Fleet approaching the DS2 and Endor in hyperspace works better, especially considering Leia looked at that screen and said 'Hurry Han, the Rebel Fleet will be here at any moment.'

It could also be a coincidence, as Leia knows when the Rebel fleet is supposed to arrive and the need to have the shield down by then and the monitor shows the Imp fleet.

However, why would the Imperial fleet be on the move before the Rebel fleet arrives?


I don't think there are any on screen instances of ships being detected while in hyperspace, and I think the EU is consistent on this point also.

Another point is the Avenger losing the Falcon after Han pulled his Mynock maneuver. The Imps assumed the Falcon had gone to lightspeed and that is why the Falcon had vanished.

Once the Imp Fleet started jumping in pursuit of the Falcon and in hyperspace, they were unable to detect the Falcon flying away at sublight speeds.

[Vehrec]

Another point is the Avenger losing the Falcon after Han pulled his Mynock maneuver. The Imps assumed the Falcon had gone to lightspeed and that is why the Falcon had vanished.

Nobody says anything to that effect. Their first thought when the Falcon vanishes is 'cloaking device'. Nobody mentions that they might have jumped to lightspeed.

Once the Imp Fleet started jumping in pursuit of the Falcon and in hyperspace, they were unable to detect the Falcon flying away at sublight speeds.

Or they weren't looking for the falcon in normal space in the area just vacated. Or they were already far enough away that hyper-realspace sensors were out of range. Just because you have FTL sensors doesn't mean they're long range or have good resolution at a distance.

[Deathstalker]

Nobody says anything to that effect. Their first thought when the Falcon vanishes is 'cloaking device'. Nobody mentions that they might have jumped to lightspeed.

PIETT
Lord Vader, our ships have completed their scan of the area and found nothing. If the Millennium Falcon went into light-
speed, it'll be on the other side of the galaxy by now.

VADER
Alert all commands. Calculate every possible destination along their last know trajectory.

PIETT
Yes, my lord. We'll find them.

VADER
Don't fail me again, Admiral.


Ships can't be tracked if they make the jump to lightspeed. Otherwise the Imp fleet would have known the Falcon had made the jump into hyperspace.

[Havok]

Well for one, the Falcon didn't make the jump to hyperspace. It was parked on the side of the Avenger's tower.

Second, despite that scene, their FIRST thought was 'cloaking device'...

"NEEDA: Track them,. They may come around for another pass.

TRACKING OFFICER: Captain Needa, the ship no longer appears on our
scopes.

NEEDA: They can't have disappeared. No ship that small has a cloaking
device.

TRACKING OFFICER: Well, there's no trace of them, sir.

COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER: Captain, Lord Vader demands an update on the
pursuit.

NEEDA: (drawing a breath) Get a shuttle ready. I shall assume full
responsibility for losing them, and apologize to Lord Vader.
Meanwhile, continue to scan the area.

COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER: Yes, Captain Needa."

And the part you quoted does not indicate that they can't track ships in hyperspace/at lightspeed (which is an ability that is shown in ROTJ) it just illustrates how far the Falcon could have gotten since they lost them.

[Junghalli]

All I'm saying is that there's a link between communications technology and sensor technology, so if you have one its implied you have the other.

Not really, it depends entirely on how whatever technobabble the FTL comm works on works. Some examples of FTL comm that do not imply FTL sensors at all would be a small wormhole you send signals through or something like quantum entanglement that allows you to actually send complex information. Another one (and more relevant for Star Wars) would be if whatever carries the FTL signals is only weakly interacting with normal matter. FTL sensors implies some kind of magic FTL signal that can interact with normal matter strongly enough that you can bounce it off stuff and get useful information from the signal return, or get useful information by looking at naturally occurring FTL "radiation", and it's actually practical to do this, which is not logically implied by simply having some way to transmit information FTL.

This is basically just a nitpick though.

[Darksun]

This is not film evidence but page 2 in the Dark Empire comic while in hyperspace:

Leia: Han the navicomputer just reported extreme turbulence at our reentry coordinates
Han: That'll be the battle debris leia! the whole Imperial sector is littered with it!

Evidence of not only ftl sensors but faster than the Millenium Falcon.

But it should also be noted that this is the same comic that brought you giant probe droids and stated the Falcon was:

As the Millenium Falcon blasts at twice the speed of light toward the Calamari battlefield...

Grats, the Falcon just took 20 000 years to get to its destination. I read that comic as a kid and it seemed fine but its plot holes, ridiculous scenarios and flawed concepts are oh so glaring as an adult.

[adam_grif]

The movie mentions that the falcon can do "Point five past lightspeed". He's either making shit up to boast when he absolutely didn't need too ('eleventy jillion times lightspeed' is both more accurate and more impressive), or "lightspeed" is faster in SWverse.

I dunno.