Arma2: Operation Arrowhead

[Tolya]

Being a sucker for everything BIstudio (yes, I know...), I got Operation Arrowhead. And its the first title since the original Operation Flashpoint that I wasn't disappointed with... yet.

Basically, it's Arma 2 without most of the bugs that made the original game unbearable to play. Bugs are still noticeable (like problems with entering buildings crouched or enemies which occasionally take 4-5 seconds to notice that they are bloody dead) but overally it's starting to come together.

This standalone expansion revolves around war in Afgha... oops, wait, delete delete, Takistan It's a desert country similar to Afghanistan.

I can't really say anything about the campaign yet because I had to sort out some crash problems (figures...) but hopefully I will start it today. Some of the single scenarios I tried were quite entertaining.

Unfortunately it's just Arma 2 the way it should look like when it was originally released, so the clunky interface and a control system that requires you to get a PhD in applied buttonerics are still there.

[Steel]

Did they bring in a new armour system for vehicles with this one? Have they moved away from just HP for everything to actual penetration and ballistics?

The Arma2 campaign was probably the least playable one yet. The missions were so loose that there was genuinely no guarantee that you would meet an enemy within the first 60 minutes in a few of them. Even then the engagement could well go 'walk for 20 mins through woods, get shot by guy behind bush' or 'fly over empty woods behind your lines and somehow get machinegunned down in 3 seconds by 2 random infantry there'.

The best missions are ones where you have something to do and some flexibility and choices to do it. Arma2 missions you have nothing to do and infinite ways to do it. Hopefully there will be some more structure in this one.

[Tolya]

Its really an expansion not a new game so I doubt they changed the stupid HP system. But there are more immediate problems in the game: if you set up a satchel charge and blow it up from a safe distance, EVERY FUCKING AI in the vicinity gets an immediate fix on your position. I sneaked into a base, set the charges, got to a high ground on the way to the exfil point and blew up the charges. Two seconds later I received a burst to the head from the base about 300 meter from me.

Funnily enough, in another scenario where I had a Barret rifle with a night scope and had to eliminate an enemy officer, nothing like that happened. He got a .50 round to the body from about a click away and nobody even suspected where it came from.

Reviews say that the campaign is much faster paced and action oriented. But I really can't answer this question yet - I will probably begin the campaign today. So far I can see improvement, but at this pace we won't probably see a well balanced, designed and polished game until Arma 6. A shame.

[Zixinus]

I tried it hoping for some better change. Nope. It's the same old crap that's trying desperately to be Operation Flashpoint and failing. The story, both on an individual level and background is downright incomprehensible. You have no idea what's going on, nor would it matter nor could you care if you tried. All I can tell, its just some Middle Eastern clusterfuck where the US decided to roll in and invade make peacekeeping operations. By tanks.

You know, with all of its flaws, OP2 dev team could at least manage to tell you what's going on.

There. Under three minutes you learn all the socio-economic and diplomatic history you need to know why the fuck you are sent to a small island to kill some Chinese.

Meanwhile, Arrowhead starts you by seeing trough the eyes of a guy who wants to kill another guy and I have no idea which one it is and I can't control anything and even then, it fails. I have no control, except looking around and have absolutely zero understanding about what the hell is going on.

But let's talk gameplay for a second. The controls are the same, there is little new here. Some extra stuff, like new guns and toys are added (including infra-red sights) but other stuff is still lacking. Most importantly, controlling squad in combat is still an arcane science that you are expected to master them under 5 minutes, if not less. Do not expect any other interface improvements, except on sniper rifles where you can zero it depending on the distance. However, that is still awkward. Every new control option requires more keys.

If you care what I have to say, just listen to this: if you didn't like Arma 2, don't bother with this one.

[Edward Yee]

Regarding weapon zero -- I heard that what actually happens is that instead of actual sight adjustment, the game bends the bullet trajectory as it leaves the muzzle. *facepalm*

Gonna give it a go, but I wouldn't be surprised if the reason for the lack of "setup" is because they figured that the hardcores among BIS fans wouldn't give a shit.

[CaptHawkeye]

It's really funny how every time BI releases a game they somehow manage to break every game that came out before it again. AI bugs and terrible UIs, and piss damage models are nothing new to BI. At least ArmA 2 gets by due to its sheer scale, just like every previous Flashpoint game. It just sickens me that BI has been unable to fix even the most basic problems in their games since 01. Cold War Crisis was the greatest game i've ever played and 10 years later it *still* feels like i'm playing V 1.0

[Stark]

Quality control and project management might not be their strong points. Arguably even coding isn't their strong point.

Frankly I nearly get my huge-world modern combat fix out of BC2; amusingly Zak thinks turning on all the tank perks at once = better tanks than ARMA.

[CaptHawkeye]

Even a game as "arcade" as Bad Company 2 remembered Reactive Armour.

[Sea Skimmer]

Its really an expansion not a new game so I doubt they changed the stupid HP system.

Arma 2 was meant to accept content from Operation Flashpoint, and Arrowhead has to work with that too. Nothing is going to really change about the HP system, ever, because of that requirement. The modding community for the games is about the only people who are going to buy the game anyway so they aren't going to fuck all of that over. As it was converting Flashpoint mods to Arma 2 was so fast people had them out and working in under a week providing a huge number of additional maps and weapons.

[Vympel]

Speaking of, I bought OFP2 for $7.50 on Steam a few months ago, I started dabbling in it the other day.

Can't get past the first fucking level (well I can, but I'm trying to do the last secondary objective). Stupid fucking checkpoint systems. I'm sorry, but they're rubbish in games where you may have to walk for minutes on end to get to the next interesting part.

[PeZook]

Can't get past the first fucking level (well I can, but I'm trying to do the last secondary objective). Stupid fucking checkpoint systems. I'm sorry, but they're rubbish in games where you may have to walk for minutes on end to get to the next interesting part.

They wouldn't be bad if the checkpoints were logically placed. As it is, there's about a zillion mods which give you easy saving in missions...which makes it even funnier that BIS decided not to include proper saves

BIS had an awesome idea once (God knows I spent a barbaric amount of time on OFP), but they seem to fail massively at improving even the simplest of things, like the command interface. I heard there were many squad command games released since 2001 one coud steal ideas from?

[Edward Yee]

Can't get past the first fucking level (well I can, but I'm trying to do the last secondary objective). Stupid fucking checkpoint systems. I'm sorry, but they're rubbish in games where you may have to walk for minutes on end to get to the next interesting part.

They wouldn't be bad if the checkpoints were logically placed. As it is, there's about a zillion mods which give you easy saving in missions...which makes it even funnier that BIS decided not to include proper saves

I think he was talking about OFP2... which I can't force myself to say was better than ARMA 2.

[Zixinus]

Quality control and project management might not be their strong points. Arguably even coding isn't their strong point.

Arguably, creating a good user interface is not their strong suit either.

[Tolya]

BIS had an awesome idea once (God knows I spent a barbaric amount of time on OFP), but they seem to fail massively at improving even the simplest of things, like the command interface. I heard there were many squad command games released since 2001 one coud steal ideas from?

Every bloody Rainbow Six game since Raven Shield had a quite workable context sensitive command system that bloody worked. Not to mention SWAT games since 3, which were a bit clunky but easy to learn and very usable given the number of options you had. Not to forget Brothers in Arms, which did a good job.

The biggest problem with OFP/ARMA is that it tries to do everything at once, while still lacking in functionality. And the big scale that they aim at doesn't help. If you have a chopper in your squad you are unable to tell it just to land. It lacks basic compartmentalization - if you have a tank in your team you don't need to know that there are three guys inside. Reducing it to just "a tank" in your command interface is bloody enough. Every army in the world knows that it pays off to compartmentalize: like splitting platoons into sections and fireteams. If they did that in ARMA you could command a motorized company without too much hassle.

I swear, if they do not rework the interface in ARMA 3 I will travel to BI Studio (and its a few hours drive away from where I live) and I will publicly burn all my copies of OFP and ARMA games publicly before their front door.

Oh, and AI that after so many years still has problems driving on a stretch of a straight paved road is just a disgrace. Even Battlefield 2 bots could navigate around an urban map without any problems.

I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, Bohemia Interactive?

[Zixinus]

I mean, what the hell is wrong with you, Bohemia Interactive?

Arma 2 was meant to accept content from Operation Flashpoint, and Arrowhead has to work with that too. Nothing is going to really change about the HP system, ever, because of that requirement. The modding community for the games is about the only people who are going to buy the game anyway so they aren't going to fuck all of that over.

It just sickens me that BI has been unable to fix even the most basic problems in their games since 01. Cold War Crisis was the greatest game i've ever played and 10 years later it *still* feels like i'm playing V 1.0

ű

They have a niché audience and that's what they all care about. They have their development priorities obviously screwed (I am sure that taking raw resources, modelling, texturing, bump-mapping, etc some ASS-4013 helicopters, BULL-3417 tanks and other new, worthless toys requires more time than to start mapping context-sensitive controls).

[Stark]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at; they care less about making an actual game or accessible interface etc than just catering to the base; frankly if support for OFP mods makes your game shit, you're a fucking idiot, and it woudln't be hard to have dual systems ANYWAY.

But nah, they need to keep their 56 players and can't branch out because they're too stupid or fat.

[Tolya]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at; they care less about making an actual game or accessible interface etc than just catering to the base; frankly if support for OFP mods makes your game shit, you're a fucking idiot, and it woudln't be hard to have dual systems ANYWAY.

But nah, they need to keep their 56 players and can't branch out because they're too stupid or fat.

Thing is, I have my doubts whether fixing the most basic problems with the interface would grant them much bigger playerbase. Me being a good example: it is a sad and broken piece of shit but I still got it and I get some fun out of it.

Games that require to use some brain, especially in the case of tactics and squad based combat are in a bit of a decline right now. At least on the PC. I can't remember a good squad based combat game since the original Brothers in Arms.

[Stark]

Are they in decline because they need a brain, or because they have shit interfaces and vertical learning curves? People seem to think so, but I have my doubts. Seriously, how many people put SE5 back on the shelf because it's complex or because it's a fuck ugly 90s game with poor documentation? Do you not remember a good squad game on PC because nobody wants them, or because nobody makes them?

People 'know' complex (especially niche) games are 'hard to play' (as distinct from actually hard to 'play' if you get me) because they're made by idiots who cater to rabid fans. Developing decent UI doesn't really cost money and its not like these guys are hugely into QA anyway. They simply don't care and have communities full of fat people telling them not to care because REAL HARDCORE players will play anyway.

Of course anyone in business should know that catering to REAL HARDCORE players is a dumb idea...

[Commander 598]

I played the demo this morning and I could swear I noticed a context menu or something very much like it...

Also I was in awe of the vehicle dust physics watching the dust kicked up by my humvee slowly edge away from it in a breeze...a mile behind me.

[Steel]

It is galling that there are some context sensitive commands, like telling everyone to get into a truck is just: ¬-button and then click on truck, same for 'move over there', but there is no command "land the fucking chopper". Depending on how the pilot is feeling the ways of getting people out may end up in people bailing out, just falling out, the chopper crashing into trees miles from where you wanted to get out and finally (and least likely) chopper lands and squad disembarks. I remember I found a mod for OFP that made choppers non retarded and able to land where you want them to, but apparently that wasn't important enough for them to incorporate into the subsequent games; not critical to gameplay like... dust?

As far as I could tell OFP2 didn't actually add any more context sensitive actions, it just put them in a q menu, which was in fact inferior to the old system because it required more keypresses and you couldn't move while using it. Surely people should be clamouring for better control of the troops and superior AI over anything else by now.

[SushiMaster]

I immensely enjoyed the original Operation Flashpoint (as well as the Red Hammer expansion and Resistance). Due to me not trusting most "professional" reviewers and not knowing anyone who owns these games, I'd like to ask you guys: ARMA 2 or OFP2?

I don't mind the insane interface or crappy voice acting, I just want to know which is the better game.

[Steel]

Well if we compare both games to say Bad Company 2:

OFP2 offers nothing that isnt found, and superior, in BC2.

Arma2 has a larger scale than BC2 and is a successor to OFP.

So basically if you were considering OFP2 you would be better off getting a normal FPS. OFP2 has all the flaws of a flashpoint game, yet none of the advantages, while the shooter component is also inferior to any normal FPS.

Arma2, while flawed, at least offers something over a normal fps, such as massive scale of environment and battles within it.

[Commander 598]

And the mods.

[Stark]

Arma2 has a larger scale than BC2 and is a successor to OFP.

What does this even mean?

[Edward Yee]

Arma2, while flawed, at least offers something over a normal fps, such as massive scale of environment and battles within it.

In general I'd go with ARMA 2 over OFP2 just because of BIS continuing to give a shit at all, unlike OFP2 getting abandoned by Codemasters, and of course the mods. It's a shame that they chose for the system to "have" to be OFP-compatible, as opposed to simply having the mods redone, but if Codemasters wanted to "reclaim" the "OFP" from BIS... Dragon Rising was not the way to do it, and even BIS mocked them over it in an in-universe interview: "No one wants to see a Flashpoint Rising in the Green Sea."

Stark, I think he meant that the ARMA series is the "spiritual successor" (and not just in name) to OFP... although that's also the problem.