Trek Transporter ever used offensively?

HappyTarget · Post by **HappyTarget** » 2003-02-20 05:00pm

Just wondering if it ever has been used as shuch, cuz I can't remember it ever being used that way myself. The possibilities it has in offensive applications are pretty large. So what is it, poor writers, anti transporter technobabble or Feddie Hippiness rearing its ugly head?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-02-20 05:19pm

Idiot Writing mostly

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-02-20 05:29pm

What, like beaming people into space and crap like that? Or beaming bombs onto stuff. Shields block transporters first and foremost. Thunder/Ion storms can break them up. So can "transporter inhibitors" and gravity/antigravity beams. So can radiation generated from a modern day nuclear reactor. So can exotic ore.

Lots of things prevent their use in combat, so they are generaly used for transportation into "transporter friendly" zones.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-02-20 05:44pm

Sigh, the transporter equivalent of the earth is flat - the radiation from a modern day Nuclear reactor can't block a transporter at all, we see someone beam right by one yet people ignore this for the transporter having a power shortage seconds later.

Geordi does suggest beaming down Photon grenades to clear a transporter area but the plan was scrubbed because the effect would be too short lasting.

We also know that blocking transporters during ground combat is standard procedure (at least for Klingons), we also see the Suliban use transporters in boarding actions during Enterprise.

I'm sure other examples exist but I think you get the idea (that is limited use against enemies of equal power because they block transporters to prevent such actions).

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-20 05:49pm

The EM field from a simple transformer (not to mention various natural minerals) can block transporters, with an area-effect, no less!

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-20 06:33pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:What, like beaming people into space and crap like that? Or beaming bombs onto stuff. Shields block transporters first and foremost. Thunder/Ion storms can break them up. So can "transporter inhibitors" and gravity/antigravity beams. So can radiation generated from a modern day nuclear reactor. So can exotic ore.

Lots of things prevent their use in combat, so they are generaly used for transportation into "transporter friendly" zones.

A modern day nuclear reactor did not screw up the transporters.....Uhura was beamed directly out of the reactor room, the reason Chekov couldn't come is because of limited power and not radiation.

Transporters could play a huge role for internal starship security......if the writers had a brain.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-20 07:16pm

In Voyager, a photon torpedo was beamed aboard a small Borg ship.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » 2003-02-20 09:46pm

Howedar wrote:In Voyager, a photon torpedo was beamed aboard a small Borg ship.

One wonders why they don't do that more often.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-02-20 09:49pm

Silver wrote:One wonders why they don't do that more often.

"Probe" was the episode, IIRC. I'm pretty sure the ship didn't have its shields up though. After all these areBorgwe're talking about here.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-02-20 11:22pm

They dispersed the Redjac with the transporters in Wolf In The Fold. I think they also did that to Lore, in Datalore.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 12:45am

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Silver wrote:One wonders why they don't do that more often.
"Probe" was the episode, IIRC. I'm pretty sure the ship didn't have its shields up though. After all these areBorgwe're talking about here.

IIRC Voyager was able to bring down the Borg ships shields, they beamed the torpedo over in an attempt to disable it. :

:

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-02-21 01:19am

Baron Mordo wrote:They dispersed the Redjac with the transporters in Wolf In The Fold. I think they also did that to Lore, in Datalore.

Actually they just beamed Lore off the ship in one piece and left him floating there.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-02-21 01:20am

Oh, Picard destroyed the Tox Uthat with a Transporter Code 10 or something.

HappyTarget · Post by **HappyTarget** » 2003-02-21 03:31am

We also know that blocking transporters during ground combat is standard procedure (at least for Klingons), we also see the Suliban use transporters in boarding actions during Enterprise.

Klingons probably do so because they are devious/militaristic enough to have thought about beaming away parts of their enemy or beaming them into solid matter or just beaming them up and loosing their patterns.

Suliban use transporters in the conventional sense, tranportation. I am thinking of more malevolent and scary uses for them.

Geordi does suggest beaming down Photon grenades to clear a transporter area but the plan was scrubbed because the effect would be too short lasting.

If they can beam down, they should be able to beam up. Just lock on to anything that looks like a humanoid lifesign and beam it to the brig.

What, like beaming people into space and crap like that? Or beaming bombs onto stuff. Shields block transporters first and foremost. Thunder/Ion storms can break them up. So can "transporter inhibitors" and gravity/antigravity beams. So can radiation generated from a modern day nuclear reactor. So can exotic ore.

Lots of things prevent their use in combat, so they are generaly used for transportation into "transporter friendly" zones.

I know, but I'm thinking of all the situations where they would have no such known limitations. Like the away team beams down and gets into a fire fight. Why don't they just beam up the attackers? There have only been a few cases I can recal where this wouldn't have been an option for whatever reason. Going by cannon, they had virtually no reason to stay in a firefight in the first place. No wierd fields were mentioned, no ECM, the away team was able to beam down alright, etc.

Transporters could play a huge role for internal starship security......if the writers had a brain.

That's another thing I was thinking about to. Someone starts running around your ship, don't just use internal sensors to vector in security teams, beam the bugger to a holding cell in your brig.

In Voyager, a photon torpedo was beamed aboard a small Borg ship.

This is more allong the lines I was thinking of, but it is readily apparent why it isn't used more often. Shields usually prevent this sort of thing. But once they go down, why is it so hard to just beam away part of the enemies warp core, or a good chunck of their computer core, or cause a hull breach in the AM storage tanks? Why engage them in a likely longer lasting battle with conventional weapons if you could bugger them up good quite rapidly once you take down a shield arc and flick on your transporter?

They dispersed the Redjac with the transporters in Wolf In The Fold. I think they also did that to Lore, in Datalore.

These are more along the lines of what I was thinking.

Oh, Picard destroyed the Tox Uthat with a Transporter Code 10 or something.

same as above.

I just remembered that one species in particular uses transporters closer to my mode of thinking. The Vidiian use it in phaser beam like form to steal organs.

There was also the species that stole a bunch of stuff from Voyager in order to sell it. They beamed off various items of hightechnology, inclding everything from hand phasers to Voyager's computer core

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-02-21 05:39am

The Pirates from Descent also used a disruptor which had a transport setting.

I'm also not sure that beaming down is as easy as beaming up in fact I'm sure it isn't (beaming up requires a sensor lock beaming down does not).

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-21 09:09am

Transporters used offensively? I find em pretty offensive.

Thread hijack: wtf did they change the TNG warp from a stretch to what it was in Nemesis?!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-21 10:52am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:What, like beaming people into space and crap like that? Or beaming bombs onto stuff. Shields block transporters first and foremost. Thunder/Ion storms can break them up. So can "transporter inhibitors" and gravity/antigravity beams. So can radiation generated from a modern day nuclear reactor. So can exotic ore.

Lots of things prevent their use in combat, so they are generaly used for transportation into "transporter friendly" zones.
A modern day nuclear reactor did not screw up the transporters.....Uhura was beamed directly out of the reactor room, the reason Chekov couldn't come is because of limited power and not radiation.

Transporters could play a huge role for internal starship security......if the writers had a brain.

Actually, since transporters have a distinct sound and a few seconds of materialization delay, transporting close to enemy troops would lead to your death, and once the enemy has secured an area, they can probably jam or interdict transporters anyway.

As for ground use, I've mentioned before how tractor beams can be used to arbitrarily redirect transporters. It would be insane to use them for troop deployments into a hot zone if the enemy can simply redirect them into space at will.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-02-21 11:24am

Baron Mordo wrote:They dispersed the Redjac with the transporters in Wolf In The Fold. I think they also did that to Lore, in Datalore.

Lore materialized whole, so that he could reappear in "Brothers" and again in "Descent".

HappyTarget · Post by **HappyTarget** » 2003-02-21 12:25pm

I'm also not sure that beaming down is as easy as beaming up in fact I'm sure it isn't (beaming up requires a sensor lock beaming down does not).

But considering that TNG+ sensors can pick out a Vulcan from among a bunch of Romulans if need be, getting a lock shouldn't be that hard. Especially if they tried to lock on to something like an active hand weapon to disarm opponents.

It could also likely be used to beam up enemies even if they can't be locked solidly, but this is certainly against Fedie ethos as it would likely result in puddles of humanoid goo like the accident in TMP.

Actually, since transporters have a distinct sound and a few seconds of materialization delay, transporting close to enemy troops would lead to your death, and once the enemy has secured an area, they can probably jam or interdict transporters anyway.

Interdiction (accual enemy jamming, not fluke of local conditions) seems to be the most logical explanation, but since it is only mentioned a handful of times, it seems not to be in very widespread use. Something like a transporter inhibitor used on a starship could prevent all but physical contact boardings, simplifing things for security greatly (one or handful of entry points known ahead of time as opposed to having the enemy materialize wherever they want)

As for ground use, I've mentioned before how tractor beams can be used to arbitrarily redirect transporters. It would be insane to use them for troop deployments into a hot zone if the enemy can simply redirect them into space at will.

Agreed. Seems that at least some Feddies know this, as they didn't even attempt to transport during the DS9 Federation/Klingon mini war ground battles shown. Instead we get the myserious "hopper" as a transport used instead.

Transporters could also be used more effecitvely as support for ground troops (namely in the setting up of defenseive positions). Just beam out any offending terrain to clear lanes of fire, then beam in terrain for your own cover. Would have been good if this had been done in a ground combat like in DS9 when Sisko and co were trying to protect a subspace com or sum such from the Jem'Hadar. They could have done the above and beamed out a good section of the terrain in front of the base, creating a deep and fairly wide moat like structure. Like to see the Jem'Hadar try and cross that alive.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 12:31pm

Transporters in combat - A really efficient way to loose troops without combat.

As our Lord Wong has mentioned, tractor beams can redirect them....everything from EM fields, to minerals to dodgy perms* seem to prevent them operating in the first place.

As for non-combat situations pray you dont get an MS issue transporter or thier equivalent of a dodgy CD burner....a buffer overflow when you're in the buffer wouldnt be good....

To be honest, as intresting as they are...the use of transporters in any sort of hostile situation is mostly pointless....

*(a cookie for the name of the story.)

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-21 03:17pm

HappyTarget wrote:But considering that TNG+ sensors can pick out a Vulcan from among a bunch of Romulans if need be

I'd say this incident was the exception rather than the rule.

getting a lock shouldn't be that hard. Especially if they tried to lock on to something like an active hand weapon to disarm opponents.

So how come beaming a weapon away is never done on the show?

It could also likely be used to beam up enemies even if they can't be locked solidly, but this is certainly against Fedie ethos as it would likely result in puddles of humanoid goo like the accident in TMP.

Again, how come they never try it on the show?

Actually, since transporters have a distinct sound and a few seconds of materialization delay, transporting close to enemy troops would lead to your death, and once the enemy has secured an area, they can probably jam or interdict transporters anyway.
Interdiction (accual enemy jamming, not fluke of local conditions) seems to be the most logical explanation, but since it is only mentioned a handful of times, it seems not to be in very widespread use. Something like a transporter inhibitor used on a starship could prevent all but physical contact boardings, simplifing things for security greatly (one or handful of entry points known ahead of time as opposed to having the enemy materialize wherever they want)

Of course you ignore the point about Transporters requiring several seconds to materialize and giving your enemies a warning sound to let them know you're comming.

Transporters could also be used more effecitvely as support for ground troops (namely in the setting up of defenseive positions). Just beam out any offending terrain to clear lanes of fire, then beam in terrain for your own cover.

Whats the maximum amount of material ever beamed on the show? I remember them discussing sending a "large tree" to the giant snowflake in Data-Lore. Anything bigger. Transporters certainly can't "move mountains"

Would have been good if this had been done in a ground combat like in DS9 when Sisko and co were trying to protect a subspace com or sum such from the Jem'Hadar. They could have done the above and beamed out a good section of the terrain in front of the base, creating a deep and fairly wide moat like structure. Like to see the Jem'Hadar try and cross that alive.

It would have been effective if you can demonstrate that Transporters can actually accomplish the task in the first place. In this particular case, they didn't have a starship handy IIRC.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-02-21 03:56pm

HappyTarget wrote:Just wondering if it ever has been used as shuch, cuz I can't remember it ever being used that way myself. The possibilities it has in offensive applications are pretty large. So what is it, poor writers, anti transporter technobabble or Feddie Hippiness rearing its ugly head?

I recall Seska using a stolen transporter to murder some annoying Kazon by transporting them into space. That doesn't really have any combat applications, but it might occasionally be useful for assassination.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 04:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Garden Gnome wrote:What, like beaming people into space and crap like that? Or beaming bombs onto stuff. Shields block transporters first and foremost. Thunder/Ion storms can break them up. So can "transporter inhibitors" and gravity/antigravity beams. So can radiation generated from a modern day nuclear reactor. So can exotic ore.

Lots of things prevent their use in combat, so they are generaly used for transportation into "transporter friendly" zones.
A modern day nuclear reactor did not screw up the transporters.....Uhura was beamed directly out of the reactor room, the reason Chekov couldn't come is because of limited power and not radiation.

Transporters could play a huge role for internal starship security......if the writers had a brain.
Actually, since transporters have a distinct sound and a few seconds of materialization delay, transporting close to enemy troops would lead to your death, and once the enemy has secured an area, they can probably jam or interdict transporters anyway.

As for ground use, I've mentioned before how tractor beams can be used to arbitrarily redirect transporters. It would be insane to use them for troop deployments into a hot zone if the enemy can simply redirect them into space at will.

I agree. What I meant was they would be useful if they could beam intruders into space, into the brig, or use the same system that the transporter does to deactivate weapons on enemy soldiers who have already boarded the ship. However, I realize these ideas would require writers with a brain, as they have never demonstrated it.....call it wishful thinking.

I'm curious about the transporter/tractor beam deflection incident. What episode did this happen in?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-21 04:24pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I'm curious about the transporter/tractor beam deflection incident. What episode did this happen in?

TNG's "Attached"

See the database

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-21 04:26pm

Darth Servo wrote:Whats the maximum amount of material ever beamed on the show? I remember them discussing sending a "large tree" to the giant snowflake in Data-Lore. Anything bigger. Transporters certainly can't "move mountains"

I believe the largest transport we've ever seen was the movement of a pair of humpback whales and water surrounding them.

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Trek Transporter ever used offensively?

Trek Transporter ever used offensively?

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