Four Tie Defenders vs Six Enterprise E's

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 07:12am

Coaan wrote:
darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs. The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships. Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point. You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?
Ewok?

Where?

Someone rang?

As resident ewok...want to explain they cant take down star destoyers without
a) overwhelming firepower
or
b) being landed aboard and chewing the crews knees to death....

Jumping all over stormtroopers is a different matter from taking down a SD.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-02-21 07:18am

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Coaan wrote:
darthdavid wrote:I concede. The imperials win. But the feddies would take out atleast a few ISDs. The tactics in question being the Yuzhan Vong. Using plasma weaponry and a different method of sheilding the yuzhan vong destroyed countless New Republic ships. Including ISD's. And, well, i geuss i'd better provide real details next time. The first time. I could quote pages if you wan't. Though i'd prefer not to because i don't wanna sift through the books to find an ideal selection to prove my point. You can't say that the feddies wouldn't take down a few ships. Oh more unusual tactics beating the imperials, can anyone say Ewok?
Ewok?

Where?

Someone rang?

As resident ewok...want to explain they cant take down star destoyers without
a) overwhelming firepower
or
b) being landed aboard and chewing the crews knees to death....

Jumping all over stormtroopers is a different matter from taking down a SD.

Fur in the main reactor coolant has to be a bitch though...

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-21 12:42pm

The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology. Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide. Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter. So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 12:53pm

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology. Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide. Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter. So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

FALLACY ALERT!!!!!!

The feddies have long since passed plasma technology.....ugh......is any amount of anti-matter arbitrarially better than any amount of plasma?

No.

Dont play the name game here it doesnt work.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-02-21 01:13pm

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology. Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide. Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter. So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Oh goodie, that means I can retort back with the same BS reasoning:

1) A particular soldier wearing heavy armor can survive a hit from a rifle round, meaning the armor can withstand attacks of such power level and type
2) The soldier will however die from a very large, quick dosage of radiation, meaning that the armor cannot withstand radiation.
3) Therefore, the radiation emitted from a 40W lightbulb will kill soldiers wearing that type of armor.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-21 01:30pm

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology. Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide. Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter. So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Not only is that from a "reference source" described as mere "speculation" by its OWN PUBLISHER, but it is clearly disproven by incidents such as "Pegasus", which are CANON. Besides, even if it were correct, it would be hopelessly inadequate to breach Imperial shields which are designed to withstand gigaton-level turbolaser fire. Your idiotic assumption of technology "castes" rather than use of quantifiable data is typical for people whose grasp of science stopped at "the sky is blue".

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-21 02:37pm

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology.

No mention of how powerful the weapons are. Just citing the name of a device and since the Feds used to use a device with a similar name, the Feds must be superior?

according to www.ditl.org.

I wouldn't mention Graham Kennedy around here unless you want to get bitch slapped into next year.

So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Which figure is this? Quote a number and be specific or no one will know WTF you're talking about.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-02-21 03:38pm

The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology.

Question, my dear mutton-head: Which would hurt you more, a 8mm pistol round, or a ten-ton boulder falling on you?

Energy is energy. It doesn't matter WHAT the delivery system is. 1 terawatt of heat delivered via a plasma medium will ALWAYS be more powerful than >1 terawatt of energy delivered via some other method (be it lasers, phasers, bean-and-chili-induced farts, etc.)

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 04:05pm

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology. Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide. Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter. So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Yeah so?

How do you think 62MT, or actually 64MT, would compare to starships that can dish out 200GT per shot? ISD Medium TL can accomplish this, and in the Battle of Endor they were firing and absorbing this amount of punishment for at least 30 minutes. You do the math......

64MT torpedoes vs. 200GT TL

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 04:09pm

\Darthdavid, once again I implore you to do research on BOTH sides. Start at this website, pick up a copy of Episode II ICS, watch the movies...especially scenes with asteroids.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-02-21 09:41pm

Fine fine, i was doing that bad argument thing again wasn't i? It just got annoying when you guys were acting like a single tie fighter could destroy the whole federation.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-21 09:58pm

And your arguement didn't exactly help your situation.

If said fighter was armed with GT level weapons and TT level shield(much a Culture Fighter)...then so what?

Besides point out where someone said one lone TIE was going to collaspe the Federation...that was not said in jest?

Literally trying to go well the Feds use something better than plasma=better than Vong. And Vong can hurt NR, thus Federation must by that logic hurt the Empire...is an asinine logic, which gets your head bit off because you look stupid.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-21 10:07pm

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology.

Ah, the good old Technology Level Over Technology Yield fallacy.

The plasma caster used by the Vong toss out Gigaton yeilds. This is far above anything ever seen Trek.

Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide.

Yes, the NONCANON tech manuals.

Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter.

The yield would be 64 MT, not 62.

So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give.

No, it shouldn't. THe shields on an Acclamator have a 16 TT/sec dissapation rate, meaning you need to hit a 20 year old troop transport with more hten that to even begin to wear down the shields.

Ignoring the fact that an ISD is 10x more powerful and just using that figure and the 64 MT yield, it would take 250,000 photon torpedoes hitting inside a second to breech that threshold, and you'd have to hit it with even more to wear down the shields.

Here's a bit of a clue for you
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... nutes.html

Next time do some research first.

And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Shooting someone with all your weapons until they die is hardly unconventional. In fact, it's about as conventional as you can get. Since the Vong have weapons of just about equal power as the SWverse, their blasting at them like that is possible.

And I still want to know this time that a shuttle killed an ISD.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-21 10:47pm

darthdavid wrote:Fine fine, i was doing that bad argument thing again wasn't i? It just got annoying when you guys were acting like a single tie fighter could destroy the whole federation.

Check the Thread title, TIE Defender not fighter, and guess what, ST ships are so weak in Comparison that we have to do things like Tie Defender vs. Sovereign to get a good matchup.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-21 10:49pm

Incidently, after the Wolf 359 disaster, the Federation upgraded their capship phasers to "plasma phasers."

Kinda blows that argument to shit, doesn't it?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-21 11:17pm

darthdavid wrote:Fine fine, i was doing that bad argument thing again wasn't i? It just got annoying when you guys were acting like a single tie fighter could destroy the whole federation.

A single TIE would be stupid. The thing lacks hyperdrive so it couldn't.

However, a single Executor class could take out the Federation just by going and bombarding every planet to shit. And a single ISD could possibly do the same (fuel and energy expenditure would be the only restrictions)

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-22 12:21am

darthdavid wrote:Fine fine, i was doing that bad argument thing again wasn't i? It just got annoying when you guys were acting like a single tie fighter could destroy the whole federation.

There are no excuses for stupidity, especially stupidity involving calling Kennedy a good source.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-22 08:33am

This grows tiresome. Has anyone else noticed that Darthdavid has a habit of posting bullshit and then saying "whoops!" when he's caught? Do you think he's sincerely that dumb, or do you think he's trolling?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-02-22 09:38am

Master of Ossus wrote:
What was the circumstances and situation in Destiny's Way? That sounds like a unusual event. We know that the Jedi use their powers to move bombs against the Vong and that the other non jedi pilots don't direct their own weapons to avoid dovin bassils.
Basically, Jaina was trying to draw YV away from her position and towards another area where she had set a trap, and piloted a proton torpedo. The YV mistook the torpedo for her starship, and she flew it into an area where their ships would be easily destroyed.

Wrong book tho...
It was in Rebel Stand.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-22 04:50pm

Darth Wong wrote:This grows tiresome. Has anyone else noticed that Darthdavid has a habit of posting bullshit and then saying "whoops!" when he's caught? Do you think he's sincerely that dumb, or do you think he's trolling?

He's a stupid troll, problem solved.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-22 05:19pm

Darth Wong wrote:This grows tiresome. Has anyone else noticed that Darthdavid has a habit of posting bullshit and then saying "whoops!" when he's caught? Do you think he's sincerely that dumb, or do you think he's trolling?

He seems to be either a troll or possible a large potted plant thats somehow bought a computer off the Dell guy and mastered the art of typing...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-22 08:54pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:This grows tiresome. Has anyone else noticed that Darthdavid has a habit of posting bullshit and then saying "whoops!" when he's caught? Do you think he's sincerely that dumb, or do you think he's trolling?
He seems to be either a troll or possible a large potted plant thats somehow bought a computer off the Dell guy and mastered the art of typing...

Hmmm interesting choices...I say lonely net-rat.

The Troll usually shows some more bark, and the Potted Plant would give an indication of high levels of intelligence.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-02-23 06:38am

Could it be Ingram back trying to start flamewars again?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-24 11:28am

darthdavid wrote:The yuzhan vong used a different weaponry (plasma) which the feddies have long since surpassed plasma technology.

Technology level fallacy. Because the UFP has used plasma technology in the past does NOT necessarily mean that their weapons are as powerful as those of the YV.

Lets just see what the torpedos are. 1.5 kilos of antimatter and 1.5 kilos of matter. according to www.ditl.org . And it's in green which means it comes from a reference guide. Using E=MC2 he determined that the maximum yeild of a photon torpedo is 62 Megatons for 1.5 kilos of matter and 1.5 kilos of antimatter. So this means that a photon torpedo barrage should be able to breach the sheilds of imperial ships given the shild figure you give. And for your quote look at any battle in the NJO books in which the yuzhan vong destroy a ship.

Actually, Queen Amidala's PERSONAL YACHT in AotC (the one she travels to Geonosis in) can repel over 400 MT worth of energy in ONE SECOND without taking any damage. Only a barrage over that amount will affect the shield performance. There is no way that a 62 MT torpedo would even affect an ISD.