Battle of Macragge...otherverse style

[Bob the Gunslinger]

If that's the case, then the SW fleet is in trouble. Behemoth is a fleet of millions of Tyranid hive ships, cruisers and escorts, each one capable of surviving (at least for a brief while) engagements with the IoM fleet, which has firepower on par with Star Wars (and possibly higher in some cases). The Tyranids also destroyed much of the fleet sent out to deal with them, and IoM ships are more robust than SW ships by Connor's calculations. In other words, such a limited fleet of SW ships is probably not up to dealing with an entire Tyranid hive fleet.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if even the entire hive fleet would be capable of bringing down Coruscant's planetary shield. It might just be a stalemate there.

One thing I am sure about is what will happen in the long run if the Tyranids are able to land troops on the surface...

[Serafina]

Again, in the case of Coruscant the planetary shield is not going to be that useful.

First, Coruscant is the perfect target for previous Tyranid&Genestealer infiltration, due to it's large amount of transports each day and it's large populace. They could sabotage the planetary shield, especially if you consider how powerful Symbionts and Lictors are.

Second, Coruscant can't sustain a siege. There are just too many people, it is constantly supplied with food etc. I do not know how long they will be able to hold out, but it won't be too long.

[Srelex]

Yeah, but the OP suggested that just the hive fleet was transported, and not the genestealer infiltration on Macragge that went with it, unless I missed something. Besides, I'm sure the shields will have some sort of protection, given that they seemed to remain up throughout the battle of Corsucant.

[LionElJonson]

I dunno. If things get bad enough, they could probably just pull a Trade Federation and swarm the 'nids with a bajillion battle droids. Even the Tyranids will have troubles when they're outnumbered by something like a billion to one.

[Serafina]

I dunno. If things get bad enough, they could probably just pull a Trade Federation and swarm the 'nids with a bajillion battle droids. Even the Tyranids will have troubles when they're outnumbered by something like a billion to one.

Since a Hive fleet easily contains many, many billions of Tyranids, you would need WAY to much battle droids to get such a huge numerical advantage. Or even to get a normal numerical advantage.

Yes, SW can eventually beat the Tyranids even if they take Coruscant. But it won't be easy.

[Agent Sorchus]

Serafina since the defenders get forwarning, just as did Macragge Genestealers will not be able to land. Note as far as I can tell Macragge had no cult infestation, and the Genestealer infiltration was done by fleet based 'Stealers. Thanks to the double layer shields that ain't happening. The New Republic expected to have to besiege Coruscant for at least 3 months before the Imperials might surrender. With warning Coruscant would raise shields and call up it's defense force.

Now of course the fleet presence around Coruscant is not that heavy because of the strategic flexibility of hyperdrive, and I really would ask that at least the sector fleet be able to respond. Regardless though, the Naval battle is interesting due to the shear power of the hive fleet and the superior acceleration of any actual defenders. We cannot really say whether Behemoth is going to fully besiege Coruscant or not, thanks to the many unknowns. We do not know how many ground based defense guns Coruscant has, we do not know how shallow the fleet presence is (going by Rouge Squadron, only 4 ISD's during the fall of the empire), and we definitely can't tell how well the Imperial forces will be utilized. We also have no clue what the Imperial army presence really is, and how many people work in the Law enforcement agency of Coruscant.
Addendum to the above: how would construction droids alter the battle? Would they be able to add anti invassion batteries to the defense of the planet, factories for war material or what would they do? It would be interesting.

Hell we don't even know how many sentient beings inhabit the planet. It is entirely possible that if the populace of Coruscant outnumbers the Hive fleet by enough to rush a conscript army together to defend the world when the shields actually fall.

I would be more afraid of Palpatine screwing the defense over than anything else during the RoTS battle, and the New Republic having far to few defensive ships to counter the fleet at all.

[Serafina]

Serafina since the defenders get forwarning, just as did Macragge Genestealers will not be able to land. Note as far as I can tell Macragge had no cult infestation, and the Genestealer infiltration was done by fleet based 'Stealers. Thanks to the double layer shields that ain't happening. The New Republic expected to have to besiege Coruscant for at least 3 months before the Imperials might surrender. With warning Coruscant would raise shields and call up it's defense force.

Well, that assumes that they can screen every single transport that lands on Coruscant for potential infiltrators.
Of course, that also assumes that the Tyranids have time to prepare.

So we have the following scenarios:
-The Tyranids arrive suddenly, no time for them or the defenses to prepare. In that case, the planetary shield would hold them back - apparently for about three months. The outcome depends on the amount of reinforcements the GE (or republic) can bring to bear if we take the Shadow of the Warp into account.
-The Tyranids have time to prepare. The GE does not manage to screen the millions of ships that arrive on Coruscant every day, which allows the Tyranids to create Genestealer Cults. Those should be able to take out the shields and further hamper the defenses. The preparation time would be between months or years, tough.
-The Tyranids can not infiltrate despite preparation time. The GE might start out with enough ships to hold back most of the Swarm Fleet. Sheer mass makes it possible that they might land, but only if the shield is down (unlikely).
However, i do not see how they can realistically prevent infiltration. The reinforcements are still possible, tough.

[LionElJonson]

Genestealer hybrids have telepathic abilities. Star Wars has machines to detect Force abilities, which were used by stormtroopers during the Jedi Purge. All they'd need to do is start building them again, and have the Star Wars equivalents of TSA scan everyone who arrives on Coruscant.

[Serafina]

Genestealer hybrids have telepathic abilities. Star Wars has machines to detect Force abilities, which were used by stormtroopers during the Jedi Purge. All they'd need to do is start building them again, and have the Star Wars equivalents of TSA scan everyone who arrives on Coruscant.

Yes, they CAN detect a Genestealer hybrid or infected.
So can the IoM. The problem is screening the millions of ships that land on Coruscant every day. That's a huge task, especially since SW-ships do not need spaceports.

[lordofchange13]

for both Coruscant's, the battle would be epic. the old republic one would likly loose,considering they don't have that big of a standing army. the Empire corusant would win but sustan HEAVY loses. DC earth,they'll put up a good but will eventaly fall to total pwnation , marvel is pretty much the same. 40k mars would win but would be smashed pretty bad till the terrans come. star trek you got to be kidding me they wouldn't last an hour. the starship troopers earth can only just fight off one ship werth of alien monsters, muchless a fleet numbering in the millions, if not billions. tyranids could take on nearly any planet with out a large chance of losing.

[Batman]

Really. How would the Tyranids deal with Doctors Fate and Strange, leave alone the number of Superman level (and above, on the DC side)/ NEARLY Superman level (on the Marvel side) heroes on TOP of the numerous other superpowered guys?
The Tyranids seem to be a threat to the Imperium mainly due to infiltration. In a direct confrontation, they apparently get eaten by the Imperium, which in turn means they'll get curbstomped by Marvel OR DC Earth.

[Hawkwings]

Mmm, Tyranids have won plenty of stand-up fights against the Imperium. Their ships are comparable and there's TONS of Tyranids. The whole "More organisms than we have bullets" description comes to mind.

[hongi]

Behemoth is a fleet of millions of Tyranid hive ships, cruisers and escorts

Since when? Behemoth had one thousand ships when it attacked Macragge:

A month later the Tyranids attacked Macragge, and a fleet of bio-ships now numbering well over a thousand vessels swept aside attacks by Ultramarines' strike cruisers defending the outlying worlds as they pushed in-system.

Codex: Tyranids 4th ed

[Srelex]

Mmm, Tyranids have won plenty of stand-up fights against the Imperium. Their ships are comparable and there's TONS of Tyranids. The whole "More organisms than we have bullets" description comes to mind.

Even still, the likes of Superman have, in their upper-limit depictions, shrugged off nuclear weaponry like it was nothing and other absurd feats. I can't think of any Tyranid organisms that would pose a real threat to them, excluding bioships.

[Norade]

Serafina since the defenders get forwarning, just as did Macragge Genestealers will not be able to land. Note as far as I can tell Macragge had no cult infestation, and the Genestealer infiltration was done by fleet based 'Stealers. Thanks to the double layer shields that ain't happening. The New Republic expected to have to besiege Coruscant for at least 3 months before the Imperials might surrender. With warning Coruscant would raise shields and call up it's defense force.

Well, that assumes that they can screen every single transport that lands on Coruscant for potential infiltrators.
Of course, that also assumes that the Tyranids have time to prepare.

So we have the following scenarios:
-The Tyranids arrive suddenly, no time for them or the defenses to prepare. In that case, the planetary shield would hold them back - apparently for about three months. The outcome depends on the amount of reinforcements the GE (or republic) can bring to bear if we take the Shadow of the Warp into account.
-The Tyranids have time to prepare. The GE does not manage to screen the millions of ships that arrive on Coruscant every day, which allows the Tyranids to create Genestealer Cults. Those should be able to take out the shields and further hamper the defenses. The preparation time would be between months or years, tough.
-The Tyranids can not infiltrate despite preparation time. The GE might start out with enough ships to hold back most of the Swarm Fleet. Sheer mass makes it possible that they might land, but only if the shield is down (unlikely).
However, i do not see how they can realistically prevent infiltration. The reinforcements are still possible, tough.

Serafina, you're really overvaluing some Tyranid abilities and undervaluing the Wars verse's ability to counter.

The first is the Shadow of the Warp, that works on the psyker based communications of the IoM, but it should do precisely jack fuck to a hyperwave transmitter on the most important planet in the galaxy. Also if we assume that warp = force for this then Palpy may have a chance to mess with synapse with his galaxy spanning antiforce shroud.

The second, and biggest point, is that you're assuming that a genestealer cult can infiltrate and that a significant number of ships going in and out of Coruscant go unscanned. I would like to see your source that a significant number of ships of types that are availible to the Hive fleet get through without being inspected at some sort of customs station. I ask as we know from X-Wing and TIE Fighter that a pass from a single one man fighter is enough to tell that a cargo container holds a weapons lab, that a transport holds rebel soldiers, or even that a specific transport is carrying a specific type of torpedo. Taking this into account a few thousand customs vessels doing quick flybys combined with any searches done on the ground make any infiltration less likely than it would be for a comparable Imperium world. Not to mention the notion that the Wars side needs to scan every transport coming in, even if say a thousand a day get through unscanned, that doesn't mean that the one the Nids need will. You also seem to assume that any cult which infiltrates will always be able to get the shields down when it could just as easily be crushed early and do nothing.

The third one was that you seem to think Coruscant can't hold out under siege which is dumb, why have shields if using them means you starve within a short enough time period that rescue isn't possible. The next issue is that the empire could, if needed, pull every ship in the fleet back home in a day or two at longest, I'm not saying they would, but we have in cannon that it takes hours to go from the core to an outer rim world.

for both Coruscant's, the battle would be epic. the old republic one would likly loose,considering they don't have that big of a standing army. the Empire corusant would win but sustan HEAVY loses. DC earth,they'll put up a good but will eventaly fall to total pwnation , marvel is pretty much the same. 40k mars would win but would be smashed pretty bad till the terrans come. star trek you got to be kidding me they wouldn't last an hour. the starship troopers earth can only just fight off one ship werth of alien monsters, muchless a fleet numbering in the millions, if not billions. tyranids could take on nearly any planet with out a large chance of losing.

Lordofchange13, please work on spelling and grammar, compared to the rest of the thread your post looks like dog shit in a zen garden.

Mmm, Tyranids have won plenty of stand-up fights against the Imperium. Their ships are comparable and there's TONS of Tyranids. The whole "More organisms than we have bullets" description comes to mind.

Even still, the likes of Superman have, in their upper-limit depictions, shrugged off nuclear weaponry like it was nothing and other absurd feats. I can't think of any Tyranid organisms that would pose a real threat to them, excluding bioships.

Now I'm picturing Superman throwing a hiveship into the sun bag of nukes style.

[lordofchange13]

Really. How would the Tyranids deal with Doctors Fate and Strange, leave alone the number of Superman level (and above, on the DC side)/ NEARLY Superman level (on the Marvel side) heroes on TOP of the numerous other superpowered guys?
The Tyranids seem to be a threat to the Imperium mainly due to infiltration. In a direct confrontation, they apparently get eaten by the Imperium, which in turn means they'll get curbstomped by Marvel OR DC Earth.

the tyranids are a massive threat to the IOM, the fleet that desroyed Behemoth was compost greatly of space marines chapter ultrmarines, and a massive crappload of guardsmen, and it wasn't even all of the tyranid fleet, splinters were still left around. and the people you mentioned are an army of a few hundred against over a hundred billion, they'le git tired eventialy. and the normal humas of earths tech base is fare lower then in 40k, and there army is alot small. the marvel and DC earths would lose.

[lordofchange13]

Mmm, Tyranids have won plenty of stand-up fights against the Imperium. Their ships are comparable and there's TONS of Tyranids. The whole "More organisms than we have bullets" description comes to mind.

Even still, the likes of Superman have, in their upper-limit depictions, shrugged off nuclear weaponry like it was nothing and other absurd feats. I can't think of any Tyranid organisms that would pose a real threat to them, excluding bioships.

the nids would use ether insain numbers to kill him or there psionic power AKA magic, supermans weak to magic.

[Stravo]

Mmm, Tyranids have won plenty of stand-up fights against the Imperium. Their ships are comparable and there's TONS of Tyranids. The whole "More organisms than we have bullets" description comes to mind.

Even still, the likes of Superman have, in their upper-limit depictions, shrugged off nuclear weaponry like it was nothing and other absurd feats. I can't think of any Tyranid organisms that would pose a real threat to them, excluding bioships.

the nids would use ether insain numbers to kill him or there psionic power AKA magic, supermans weak to magic.

psionic powers are magic? Since when? In the comics and other media psionics and magic are always distinctly different forces. Superman has faced psionic oriented foes before with no ill effects to his powers or abilities.

[Ugolino]

On the republic:
Canon sources suggest that a fleet of at least 1000+ ships ( implied to be star destroyers) was present over Coruscant towards the end of the war. This number was doubled or tripled by Traviss's secret fleet nonsense.

The Tyranids would have a nasty time of it. The Confederacy's strike during Episode 3 was noted to be unwinable through conventional means, with it only intended as a distraction for the kidnapping and with Grievous attempting to withdraw as soon as he was on-board with the Chancellor.

[lordofchange13]

They smash the laws of the universe just like magic, he has i was not aware of that. the psionics from warhammer 40K work alittle bit diffrently, they warp reality and can destroy nerly anything if the psyker is strong enuf, and the tyranids have alot of warp power.

[Srelex]

You are aware of the level of psionic power--and other sorts of power besides--that can be brought to bear in Marvel and DC? Magneto, just as an example, can manipulate asteroids, IIRC. Also, please learn to spell.

[lordofchange13]

You are aware of the level of psionic power--and other sorts of power besides--that can be brought to bear in Marvel and DC? Magneto, just as an example, can manipulate asteroids, IIRC. Also, please learn to spell.

I know abit, but still abillion psyker creaters neting together to make a superwarp blast that would vaperise a continent or 2. even if all the heros and villiens got to gether to fight the tyranids it would take to long, when they finaly are ready the tyranids would all ready of lounched millions of spore podes careing multimillions of monsters killing many more humans. then theres the spores the nids would release in to the atmosphere which will help choke the defenders to death. one planet can not stand up to a tyranid hive fleet . lastly i know i spell bad, but its hard to spell good .
also on a completly diffrent note when does my designation as a redshirt go a way,im alittle scared of dieing pointlessly while its up?

[lordofchange13]

You are aware of the level of psionic power--and other sorts of power besides--that can be brought to bear in Marvel and DC? Magneto, just as an example, can manipulate asteroids, IIRC. Also, please learn to spell.

IIRC ??

[Srelex]

I know abit, but still abillion psyker creaters neting together to make a superwarp blast that would vaperise a continent

Show canon evidence that Tyranid psyker creatures have ever accomplished such a feat.

or 2. even if all the heros and villiens got to gether to fight the tyranids it would take to long, when they finaly are ready the tyranids would all ready of lounched millions of spore podes careing multimillions of monsters killing many more humans. then theres the spores the nids would release in to the atmosphere which will help choke the defenders to death. one planet can not stand up to a tyranid hive fleet . lastly i know i spell bad, but its hard to spell good .

Firstly, as others have stated, characters in both Marvel and DC are capable of absurd feats; the Flash, for example, once evacuated a town in a literal blink of an eye, the Green Latern, I believe, was able to halt the shift of tectonic plates, and Superman...well, he's fucking Superman. Even individual planets in 40k, such as Macragge and Tarsis Ultra, have repelled Tyranid invasions, although admittedly not without losses, but we're talking worlds inhabited by hundreds, if not thousands, of superpowered individuals.

[Batman]

They smash the laws of the universe just like magic, he has i was not aware of that. the psionics from warhammer 40K work alittle bit diffrently, they warp reality and can destroy nerly anything if the psyker is strong enuf, and the tyranids have alot of warp power.

Yes, that's wonderfully quantifiable. The Warp is magic no more than the Force is. Besides, not only is Clark's magic weakness ill defined as hell (everybody knows he HAS it but nobody seems to know how it WORKS, and he can still go toe to toe with Captain Marbles who's powers ARE magical in origin), but he (and presumably Kara) are the ONLY ones with this weakness. Guess what-the entire bleeping Marvel family WORKS on magic, and every last one of them is Superman level (minus the 50 different kinds of vision). So's JJ. The various Wonder females aren't far behind. What's the name of our Junior Martian again?
As for the numerical advantage, yeah, they totally have to be attacked individually. There's nothing in the DCU than can area/volume effect fight. Oh wait. Or move so fast they can attack a couple thousand foes (low end) in a single second. Oh wait.
EDIT:
And I'm supposed to be scared by psykers you need a billion of to vaporize one measly continent? Half the people I work with can do that by their lonesome.
How are the ships ever getting close enough to Earth to launch those spores, and what makes you think they'll ever be able to enter the atmosphere?