Starcraft 2 discussion thread

[Thanas]

Horace Warfield is one tough guy. Runs out of ammo, then bayonets a Zerg. Then gets hit by Hydralisk spikes in the arm - and proceeds to punch said Hydralisk to death. Nevermind his idea of medical assistance.

[Gaidin]

Edit: Yay, it worked!
Spoiler

Also, Raynor. Raynor signed off in Brood War with the words "It may not be tomorrow, darling. It may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's going to kill you someday. I'll be seeing you." He hated her for murdering Fenix and he saw her as an irredeemable monster. But in this game, by a certain point it's almost taken for granted that he prefers to save her. It's other characters who say "she needs to die for what she's done," not Raynor. I'd buy Raynor having an inner conflict and eventually setting aside his anger, but he should at least try to make a show of it.

I give them the benefit of the doubt here since Raynor has had four years to mull over his feelings regarding Kerrigan. It's not like Kerrigan was constantly in his face fighting him or the Dominion.

[White Haven]

You are indeed correct, Thanas. Wierd, when I went back and played that one, I didn't get the sequence, but I was able to get the one for both Haven missions.

[Thanas]

I have to reevalute my initial assumption about Kerrigan giving up in the Betrayal video. You can clearly hear the hammer click on her rifle, meaning her magazine is empty. In that case, she was out of luck either way.

[Pelranius]

Four years is a lot of time for Raynor to get lonely I guess.

I think we should assume that the mission choice which leaves the most characters alive is canon? It's not like you actually kill Selendis, right?

[Thanas]

Four years is a lot of time for Raynor to get lonely I guess.

I think we should assume that the mission choice which leaves the most characters alive is canon? It's not like you actually kill Selendis, right?

You do not kill her either way, because she is not on the mothership and salutes you in the end for your skill in that mission.

Although Nova's cinematic is so hilarious I much prefer it over the other.

[Thanas]

Come to think of it, the story finale seems to play right in the hands of Duran/Narud and the Shadow/villain. Sure, Kerrigan is healed, but in doing so she lost a fair bit of power, the control over the swarm etc....looks like Valerian got played in a major way. By taking out Kerrigan as a power factor, she is far less of a threat.

Killing her would have been a bonus to make sure, but I think this is still a net loss to the "good guys", so to speak. Why else would Duran push for her transformation (unless the plan was to depower and then kill her, so to speak), in which case they achieved one of the two.

Heh, at least the main villain is not as retarded as to take no steps to eliminate threats to it.


Can't wait for the expansion.

[Guardsman Bass]

Just finished the single-player mode.


Spoiler

• I can see why they don't have medic in the Custom and Multiplayer Games. A Marine-Medic-Marauder force would be pretty devastating in the early-to-mid game, particularly since they eliminated the limits on force-grouping. I ended up using it on a lot of missions, usually with tanks as back-up.
• I really miss those automated refineries and orbital drop supply depots in Custom and Multi-Player Games.
• Pity about that whole Tychus betrayal bit in the ending (although it was obvious that he was working for someone, considering that he was released at the beginning as opposed to escaping). He was one of my favorite characters, and the hilarious "Odin" mission (where he spends almost the whole time talking to himself while drinking beer) was one of my favorites.
• I'm surprised so many people picked Nova over Tosh. Tosh was pretty cool, and his mission was a weird type of fun (for once, you're the random guy wandering around while the computer is the one trying to cover for you). Plus, it seemed kind of "un-Raynor-ish" for him to dump Tosh, a guy he's been fighting with for a while on a couple of missions, for some random Dominion Ghost. Turns out it might be the "right" choice, too, since (as mentioned before) Hansen tells you that Nova was full of shit afterwards.
• I picked Dr. Hansen over the Protoss. You get a nice little cut-scene with a brief tender moment between her and Raynor, and Selendis doesn't seem too bothered by it (her words were something along the lines of "you are as formidable as they say, James Raynor" or the like).
• I liked the Ulan cinematic, Zeratul, and the actual gameplay of the Protoss missions (except for the last one, which was exhausting), but I greatly disliked the story bits they introduced. I'm with Morilore - the Overmind's a "good" guy now? I thought the whole point of the Zerg was that they were designed to have a savage "purity of essence" while their form was constantly changing as they assimilated new creatures and designs into their gene pool. Then there's the whole "prophecy" bit - I much preferred the whole politics-driven storyline that dominated most of Starcraft and Brood War (and most of Wings of Liberty, for that matter). And the whole omnicidal nature of the Xel-Naga seemed rather out of place when they were described in original Starcraft as this benevolent, peaceful race that spent the millenia seeding the Milky Way with their attempts to engineer intelligent life (the race that left as opposed to fighting when the Protoss grew proud and threatening to them).
• The Korhal mission with the Odin was probably my favorite mission.
• I like the variety of missions, although I think there were too many "survival" missions (missions where you basically turtle around something you have to protect for a set period of time).
• All of the races are pretty awesome in Custom and Multi-Player, although I prefer Protoss the most (they were also my favorite race in Starcraft original).
• I definitely think Narud is Duran in disguise. Manipulating the Mobius Foundation would be his type of thing, and considering that he was able to fake infestation to Kerrigan (or simply eliminate it on his own), it's probably not too much of a stretch that he's able to change his form to differing degrees.
• I'm not too fond of the ending. The Xel-Naga relic is activated, Raynor finds Kerrigan and kills Tychus to save her, and they walk off, followed by long-ass credits.

[Gaidin]

Just finished the single-player mode.


Spoiler

• I liked the Ulan cinematic, Zeratul, and the actual gameplay of the Protoss missions (except for the last one, which was exhausting), but I greatly disliked the story bits they introduced. I'm with Morilore - the Overmind's a "good" guy now? I thought the whole point of the Zerg was that they were designed to have a savage "purity of essence" while their form was constantly changing as they assimilated new creatures and designs into their gene pool. Then there's the whole "prophecy" bit - I much preferred the whole politics-driven storyline that dominated most of Starcraft and Brood War (and most of Wings of Liberty, for that matter). And the whole omnicidal nature of the Xel-Naga seemed rather out of place when they were described in original Starcraft as this benevolent, peaceful race that spent the millenia seeding the Milky Way with their attempts to engineer intelligent life (the race that left as opposed to fighting when the Protoss grew proud and threatening to them).

Spoiler

Wasn't the whole thing with that though being about the Overmind having been corrupted somehow by someone or something? We know the Xel'Naga made the Zerg in a purity of essence sense, but who is behind the hybrid and in control of Duran has never been confirmed as far as I know. The Overmind was somehow corrupted, and if it was by someone other than the Xel'Naga, then there's something bigger out there than the Zerg, and with he ending, making them a potential ally to fight them. If it was the Xel'Naga, the same situation still applies, the Xel'Naga have just been malicious since Brood War(at minimum) and they need to be dealt with, and the Zerg are still a potential ally now(if only out of desperation), whether they were the bad guy in Brood War or not.

Or am I spouting random bs? It's a somewhat unexpected development so I can only theorize at best.

[Hawkwings]

Spoiler

Anyone remember how the prophecy referenced the "Dark One"? He breaks the cycle. So My theory is that The Dark One is a Xel'Naga who's been left behind as a caretaker of sorts (perhaps as punishment?), and he decides to go loony and kill everything. For some reason or another (perhaps he has been depowered by the other xel'naga) he can't go all powers of creation and destroy everything, so he uses the zerg to do it, using their "purity of essence" to be a metaphor for "simple-minded and easy to control". So he corrupts the overmind and sets them on his grand plan to kill everything. But wait, the Overmind hatches Kerrigan, who is going to be able to resist The Dark One. So he's got to get rid of her. Oh look, how convenient, the Terrans and Protoss want to kill her.

And I'll agree that de-zergifying Kerrigan is probably a loss for the good guys. She has no doubt lost a large portion of her psionic power, which obviously is crucial to stopping Duran.

[Gaidin]

Spoiler

And I'll agree that de-zergifying Kerrigan is probably a loss for the good guys. She has no doubt lost a large portion of her psionic power, which obviously is crucial to stopping Duran.

Spoiler

Can honestly go both ways. Most of the reason for her lack of psionic skills in the Terran campaign in Starcraft is the conditioning Ghosts get to make them manageable. They have mental blocks. They spent a mission of the zerg campaign breaking into the Amerigo research installation so she could figure out how to get past the blocks. She's still past those blocks.

[wautd]

Alright, lets say I was a big fan at the original a decade ago, but in the day of age where we have WiC, CoH and MoW I was completely underwhelmed at seeing previews of Starcraft 1.5.

That said, at a weak moment and after watching some replays I bought the game last night.
Gotta say that singleplayer campaign is fairly fun so far. Havn't tried multiplayer yet untill I get to know the controls and tech trees better but this promises to be good as well.

Sadly, my machine can't handle settings at max visual settings that well (I think I'm lacking the memory)

[Guardsman Bass]

Sadly, my machine can't handle settings at max visual settings that well (I think I'm lacking the memory)

Same here. I customized the visual settings so that most of them were on "low", but the moving portraits were enabled and the like.

[Thanas]

Spoiler

And I'll agree that de-zergifying Kerrigan is probably a loss for the good guys. She has no doubt lost a large portion of her psionic power, which obviously is crucial to stopping Duran.

Spoiler

Can honestly go both ways. Most of the reason for her lack of psionic skills in the Terran campaign in Starcraft is the conditioning Ghosts get to make them manageable. They have mental blocks. They spent a mission of the zerg campaign breaking into the Amerigo research installation so she could figure out how to get past the blocks. She's still past those blocks.

I think at this time we can dispense with the spoiler tags.

That said: I really think the Zerg campaign will be about her trying to reestablish control over the Zerg broods, which by now should be running around wild causing havocwhich (combined with Zeratul's prophecy) will make Raynor and her try to contain it.

Sadly, my machine can't handle settings at max visual settings that well (I think I'm lacking the memory)

Same here. I customized the visual settings so that most of them were on "low", but the moving portraits were enabled and the like.

The engine however helps a lot with this - I am running it on a low end machine and to prevent lagging, the game simply shuts down some animations completely in mass battles (for example, the muzzle flashes).

[Steel]

The engine however helps a lot with this - I am running it on a low end machine and to prevent lagging, the game simply shuts down some animations completely in mass battles (for example, the muzzle flashes).

Is the engine actually dynamically optimising things or is it just the same old thing thats been in games since forever that you can only have X number of effects at once? Like in games where if you shoot a wall and after a while no more bullet holes appear until the old ones vanish. So is the game just hitting this cap and not drawing any more muzzle flash in the big battles, or is there some more clever logic to it?

[Thanas]

The engine however helps a lot with this - I am running it on a low end machine and to prevent lagging, the game simply shuts down some animations completely in mass battles (for example, the muzzle flashes).

Is the engine actually dynamically optimising things or is it just the same old thing thats been in games since forever that you can only have X number of effects at once? Like in games where if you shoot a wall and after a while no more bullet holes appear until the old ones vanish. So is the game just hitting this cap and not drawing any more muzzle flash in the big battles, or is there some more clever logic to it?

Muzzle flashes and effects will appear until a certain mass of units is reached. After this treashold (seems to be around 30-50 on my PC) then effects will be shut off completely - no muzzle flashes, for example. You still get the high-end animations like explosions or so, but the lower ones vanish. However, this does not seem to be the case when I play it on a high-end PC.

[Grif]

Spoiler

And I'll agree that de-zergifying Kerrigan is probably a loss for the good guys. She has no doubt lost a large portion of her psionic power, which obviously is crucial to stopping Duran.

Spoiler

Can honestly go both ways. Most of the reason for her lack of psionic skills in the Terran campaign in Starcraft is the conditioning Ghosts get to make them manageable. They have mental blocks. They spent a mission of the zerg campaign breaking into the Amerigo research installation so she could figure out how to get past the blocks. She's still past those blocks.

I think at this time we can dispense with the spoiler tags.

That said: I really think the Zerg campaign will be about her trying to reestablish control over the Zerg broods, which by now should be running around wild causing havocwhich (combined with Zeratul's prophecy) will make Raynor and her try to contain it.

That'll fit with what Blizzard been saying about the second expansion, something about it being RPG-esque, with XPs and leveling and what-not. I imagine we'll be gathering "XP" and spending them on Zerg upgrades or buffing Kerrigan.

[dragon]

Would have been nice if actions taken could change the course of the story line and not just minor characters. So if you choose the scientist over the aliens the storyline changes a bit. Or when the Raynor and the captain are talking they mention how the suit is bounded to Tychus. Seems like they would have tried to remove it. So a added mission could have been one where they had the option to save him. just an idea.

[Morilore]

Where did everyone get the idea that Xel'Naga actually were/are superpowerful gods (as opposed to Protoss just believing they were)? They got their asses handed to them by the infant Zerg over Zerus. They were assimilated by the Overmind, and according to the original manual's fluff, that was where the Overmind got the idea to go after the Protoss in the first place. Unless this is going to be retconned.

Wasn't the whole thing with that though being about the Overmind having been corrupted somehow by someone or something?

Yeah, and that's lame. In addition to being recycled Warcraft 3 tripe (lol demonic corruption), it retroactively undermines the story of the first game, where the Overmind was portrayed as almost gleeful at the idea of uniting the Protoss and Zerg. Like I said: they're sabotaging the villains from the previous games to make this new villain seem more threatening.

[Gaidin]

Yeah, and that's lame. In addition to being recycled Warcraft 3 tripe (lol demonic corruption), it retroactively undermines the story of the first game, where the Overmind was portrayed as almost gleeful at the idea of uniting the Protoss and Zerg. Like I said: they're sabotaging the villains from the previous games to make this new villain seem more threatening.

Except the Xel'Naga have always observed from the sidelines, though it bit them on the ass with the Zerg. They've never interfered to the extend of putting their creations in test tubes over hundreds of worlds in a plan to take over everything. If this is indeed a Xel'Naga then it's a corrupt one. The big question is the prophecy(or plan? that might be more accurate...I dunno) that Zeratul found. Who wrote it? Most of the Xel'Naga were killed, but to be honest I want there to be a rogue group of Xel'Naga behind this as coming up with totally new entity out of the blue would downright suck.

I'm going through the campaign again at the moment so I've lost access to all the storyline animations so I can't directly respond past vagueries regarding the source of the corruption. More on that in a day or two. Sorry.

[Zinegata]

I really liked the upgrade/research system in the Campaign. Many options are crazy unbalanced, but I can see how radically your gameplay can change based on your upgrade/research choices.

For instance: Drop Pod Marines. It is now possible to set up 4 Barracks (some of them reactor'd), and have them drop Marines + Medics + Marauders anywhere on the map. Including the Zerg Mineral line. Pretty damn cool, even if they'll probably die after killing off part of the base.

Also, the Hercules transport. I had delayed doing the lava mining mission until getting the Hercules, and having that super-transport made that mission a cakewalk. Lava incoming? No problem. Pack all 20+ SCVs and the defending garrison of Marines into this one ship!

[Pelranius]

Killing her would have been a bonus to make sure, but I think this is still a net loss to the "good guys", so to speak. Why else would Duran push for her transformation (unless the plan was to depower and then kill her, so to speak), in which case they achieved one of the two.

Heh, at least the main villain is not as retarded as to take no steps to eliminate threats to it.

Can't wait for the expansion.

Why didn't Mengsk just order the Dominion fleet to bombard Char into oblivion after the artifact was activated? I mean, considering that since Raynor just released those Tarsonis recordings, making a martyr out of Raynor should be the least of his worries.

After all the marketing attention that's been lavished on Tychus (he even has his own action figure coming out), does anyone think that the Dark Voice/Narud will pull a Stukov on him and infest, resurrect him as the Swarm's new general. (I'm convinced that at least half of the campaign will be playing for the person behind the hybrids. Every Blizzard RTS seems to have at least one villain part).

Still don't like the Overmind retcon (it doesn't make sense, how did the Xel'Naga not notice that someone was tampering with the Zerg?)

[Thanas]

Killing her would have been a bonus to make sure, but I think this is still a net loss to the "good guys", so to speak. Why else would Duran push for her transformation (unless the plan was to depower and then kill her, so to speak), in which case they achieved one of the two.

Heh, at least the main villain is not as retarded as to take no steps to eliminate threats to it.

Can't wait for the expansion.

Why didn't Mengsk just order the Dominion fleet to bombard Char into oblivion after the artifact was activated? I mean, considering that since Raynor just released those Tarsonis recordings, making a martyr out of Raynor should be the least of his worries.

Because the fleet is commanded by Warfield and his son. Taking away his sons victory is a no-go politically, especially as the fleet might not obey seeing how Mengsk is about to nuke their commander and the guy who saved them.

Also, if the Zerg behave like they always do once their control entitiy is severed or killed (Essentially: Going rogue/mad, attacking for no reason etc), then I guess the Fleet is currently way to busy with covering itself and defending itself from the Zerg. Also, do not forget that Raynor still has the Hyperion.

After all the marketing attention that's been lavished on Tychus (he even has his own action figure coming out), does anyone think that the Dark Voice/Narud will pull a Stukov on him and infest, resurrect him as the Swarm's new general. (I'm convinced that at least half of the campaign will be playing for the person behind the hybrids. Every Blizzard RTS seems to have at least one villain part).

Still don't like the Overmind retcon (it doesn't make sense, how did the Xel'Naga not notice that someone was tampering with the Zerg?)

It might be possible that the vast majority of them had already left and all that remained behind was a small outpost, which was then surprised. I mean, I can easily see the Zerg overrunning 2 or three Xel Naga ships.

Clearly the Zerg did not assimilate a lot of Xel Naga stuff anyway (despite what they claim) because if so, I cannot see how the Terrans and Protoss even stand a fighting chance.

[Pelranius]

Because the fleet is commanded by Warfield and his son. Taking away his sons victory is a no-go politically, especially as the fleet might not obey seeing how Mengsk is about to nuke their commander and the guy who saved them.

Also, if the Zerg behave like they always do once their control entitiy is severed or killed (Essentially: Going rogue/mad, attacking for no reason etc), then I guess the Fleet is currently way to busy with covering itself and defending itself from the Zerg. Also, do not forget that Raynor still has the Hyperion.

Then there still could have been a backup plan in case Tychus failed (make the power cells in Tychus's suit go boom, sneak a Ghost on Char or something).

It might be possible that the vast majority of them had already left and all that remained behind was a small outpost, which was then surprised. I mean, I can easily see the Zerg overrunning 2 or three Xel Naga ships.

Clearly the Zerg did not assimilate a lot of Xel Naga stuff anyway (despite what they claim) because if so, I cannot see how the Terrans and Protoss even stand a fighting chance.

I figured that the Zerg were able to overrun the Xel'naga because the Dark Voice sabotaged the Xel'naga defenses. The Starcraft I manual said "the greater whole of the Xel'naga race were annihilated that day".

[Thanas]

Because the fleet is commanded by Warfield and his son. Taking away his sons victory is a no-go politically, especially as the fleet might not obey seeing how Mengsk is about to nuke their commander and the guy who saved them.

Also, if the Zerg behave like they always do once their control entitiy is severed or killed (Essentially: Going rogue/mad, attacking for no reason etc), then I guess the Fleet is currently way to busy with covering itself and defending itself from the Zerg. Also, do not forget that Raynor still has the Hyperion.

Then there still could have been a backup plan in case Tychus failed (make the power cells in Tychus's suit go boom, sneak a Ghost on Char or something).

The first requires a rather obvious manipulation that I am sure Raynor's people would have found out. In which case you already have lost your asset.

The second, Nova DID go along for the ride, however she might not have gotten there in time from the Hyperion, seeing as how Raynor did not set back foot on it after landing on Char. And you really do not want to bring Ghosts on Char if Kerrigan is still there (psionic form and all that), though Nova might have pulled it off (Kerrigan is a class 8 standard ghost and a class 12 after her transformation. Nova is already a class 10 standard ghost, so in raw potential she should be able to beat Kerrigan, though clearly not after her transformation).

That said, all of this is a very intricate backup plan for something that already is the backup. There is a limit to how many plans you can pull off before others get suspicious, especially with Raynor having Ghosts/Spectres of his own.


That said, if Tychus had not hesitated, Kerrigan would have been shot right there. Mengsk plan was totally fine in retrospect, only Tychus discovered a temporary conscience.