Afghanistan to blow up more archeological treasures

[Thanas]

This time, it is Karzai, China and the west working together to destroy cultural treasures in Afghanistan.

A decade after the Taliban destroyed the famous Bamiyan Buddhas—two massive statues that have stood sentry in an Afghan valley for 1500 years—archaeologists are warning that Afghan antiquities are again at risk. This time the threat comes from a venture blessed by the Western-backed Afghan government. A Chinese company intends to blow up an ancient Buddhist monastery south of Kabul to make way for a massive copper mine. The plan has sparked outrage among Afghan and French archaeologists, who have recently uncovered more than 100 statues within a large religious complex that includes seven stupas, or tombs built to house the relics of saints.

Link to Science.

More details:
- the monastery was built in the 3rd century BC.
- It is around 4500m² large, with 100-400 acres in total of possible excavation sites.
- the site is in ruins today, Al Quaeda used it for a training camp
- Now the chinese (with the blessing of Karzai and the west) want to blow the remaining pieces of the monastery up in order to start large-scale mining of copper
- A compromise plan protecting the monastery itself but allowing mining around it was rejected


Lovely. "We are better than the Taleban. Pay no attention to us planning to destroy even older artifacts than they did."

[ray245]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

No. We only care about preserving christian religious and cultural heritage.

[Vaporous]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

No. We only care about preserving christian religious and cultural heritage.

This probably doesn't apply to the Chinese. Or to Karzai, for that matter.

[Kanastrous]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

What do you expect 'civilized nations' to do? Roll in in force to prevent a sovereign government from destroying stuff on their own territory that they want to destroy? No pressure short of that would make a difference.

[Imperial Overlord]

Disgusting, but no surprising. Evidently blowing things up in the name of Islam isn't wrong, but doing it to make money is just fine and dandy.

[Kanastrous]

Wouldn't that be blowing things up in the name of Islam isn't wrong, and doing it to make money is just fine and dandy.?

[ray245]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

No. We only care about preserving christian religious and cultural heritage.

Buddhism is considered part of the Chinese heritage, and the Chinese have protected several Buddhist site in China. So they don't have an excuse as well.

What do you expect 'civilized nations' to do? Roll in in force to prevent a sovereign government from destroying stuff on their own territory that they want to destroy? No pressure short of that would make a difference.

How about not encouraging their own companies to blow up heritage sites of other nations? The only reason the Karzai is doing this is because of the foreign companies giving him incentives to blow those temples up.

[Kanastrous]

You don't think that the targets being Buddhist sites in a Muslim country has anything to do with it? Just a little bit?

Try this: China comes to Karzai and says There's a bunch of copper ore under this eight-hundred-year-old Muslim holy site. How about razing it so's we can dig us up some copper?

Do you hear bulldozers? I sure don't.

[Imperial Overlord]

Wouldn't that be blowing things up in the name of Islam isn't wrong, and doing it to make money is just fine and dandy.?

Yeah, I rearranged the sentence and forgot to replace the capital B I deleted.

[Thanas]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

What do you expect 'civilized nations' to do? Roll in in force to prevent a sovereign government from destroying stuff on their own territory that they want to destroy?

Last I checked, the US was still calling the shots. Without them, Karzai's government would quickly collapse. So I do not think Karzai would risk angering the US over something like this.

No pressure short of that would make a difference.

What leads you to come to that conclusion?

[Kanastrous]

Fuck it. I would have thought that civilised nations would at the very least care about preserving the cultural heritage of Afghanistan.

What do you expect 'civilized nations' to do? Roll in in force to prevent a sovereign government from destroying stuff on their own territory that they want to destroy?

Last I checked, the US was still calling the shots. Without them, Karzai's government would quickly collapse. So I do not think Karzai would risk angering the US over something like this.

I think that the US is so desperate to preserve something, anything that looks vaguely like success (hell, screw 'success,' just progress, heck, screw progress, how about something looking like stability...?)that US officials will not lean on Karzai over the matter. And what rationale could they use, anyway? Oh, yeah, sovereign government installed by a free and fair election, yeah, they're independent and in control...but we're gonna lean on 'em to pass up a potential big-$$$ deal over preserving some sites that are by nature anathema to the dominant religion in the country, anyway. I think it's the US government that would prefer not to anger Karzai over this.

No pressure short of that would make a difference.

What leads you to come to that conclusion?

No pressure applied to the Taliban saved the Bamiyan statues. And while Karzai is not a Talib he's got to deal with a polity in which they and their sympathizers are just an ineradicable fact of life. What pressure are outsiders likely to apply to Karzai, that will counterbalance that? He knows very well that we won't just abandon him, or push him to the point of seriously endangering his cooperation. He's holding the hole cards.

[Thanas]

I think that the US is so desperate to preserve something, anything that looks vaguely like success (hell, screw 'success,' just progress, heck, screw progress, how about something looking like stability...?)that US officials will not lean on Karzai over the matter. And what rationale could they use, anyway? Oh, yeah, sovereign government installed by a free and fair election, yeah, they're independent and in control...but we're gonna lean on 'em to pass up a potential big-$$$ deal over preserving some sites that are by nature anathema to the dominant religion in the country, anyway. I think it's the US government that would prefer not to anger Karzai over this.

Meh. I really doubt that t"coalition forces destroy afghan treasures" will look good in the media .

No pressure applied to the Taliban saved the Bamiyan statues.

Karzai is not the Taliban.

And while Karzai is not a Talib he's got to deal with a polity in which they and their sympathizers are just an ineradicable fact of life. What pressure are outsiders likely to apply to Karzai, that will counterbalance that? He knows very well that we won't just abandon him, or push him to the point of seriously endangering his cooperation. He's holding the hole cards.

Karzai has got to keep looking good to the west or the west will have no incentive to support him. Especially considering the public is sick of the war already.

In any case, the west (lead by the US) should at least try instead of encouraging this type of behaviour.

[Kanastrous]

It won't be 'coalition forces destroy,' it would be 'Afghan government destroys.'

No, Karzai is not a Talib. Which is what I intended to acknowledge when writing the words Karzai is not a Talib. But he still has to deal with them. They can't be ignored, whether he's a card-carrier, or not.

I guess we disagree on the nature of the relationship with Karzai. However much of a bastard he proves to be, he's our bastard. We've put down our money on him, and barring another Afghan pulling a Ngo Dinh Diem on him, we'll back him to the bitter end, just about no matter what, because he's ours and we're not going to admit there's space between us, no matter how wide the gap gets.

The destruction of the site will be written off as 'regrettable' and 'a loss' but will ultimately be 'the decision of the sovereign Afghan government,' and since we're married to preserving the fiction that he's running the country we won't do anything visible to taint that sovereignty.

I don't object to trying - although in hindsight it will likely make us look ineffectual - but I wouldn't bet much on success.

[Thanas]

It won't be 'coalition forces destroy,' it would be 'Afghan government destroys.'

Over here the papers pretty much read as "Chinese firm plans to destroy monastery with Afghan and Western support".