crusades

[Sea Skimmer]

In 1095, the Emperor of Constantinople (the last vestige of the Roman Empire) was besieged by Turks and he asked the Western Pope for help as a fellow Christian. That was the original plan.

The Pope used this as an opportunity to roust out of Europe all the seconds sons of nobility, highwaymen, corrupt monks and other layabouts and send them to reclaim the "Holy Land". They sacked Jerusalem by 1099 and according to legend executed everyone in the town, including fellow Christians of Eastern stock (they 'looked' heathen) and Jews.

The taking of places such as Jerusalm, Aleppo, Tyre and other cities went back and forth for decades. The Muslims were considered "Mohommedans" and it was thought that they worshipped Mohommed, and heathens.

Oddly enough, in a recent Army broiefing on terrorism, the DoD video explained that "terrorism has been with us for centuries, and that the Crusades were a form of terrorism perpatrated againt the people of the Middle East..."

By the Third crusade I think it was....they were sacking their own cities... talk about being a sore loser...

It was the forth crusade which sacked Constantinople. Venice, which was the starting point of the crusade, and Constantinople's biggest competitor manipulated the Crusaders into first attacking Zara. Zara being another Christian trading city on the Adriatic, and the Constantinople to pay off there debt. In the process of course Venice also saw its competition destroyed.

The Crusaders went along with on the logic that not only would they pay off there debt, but they could also gain the resources of the city and remaining empire to launch an even more powerful Crusade. Didn't work, and most of the crusaders along with a thousand years worth of the cities wealth returned to the west.

[StarshipTitanic]

The Fourth Crusade virtually doomed Eastern Europe and partially helped Western Europe achieve it's dominance over the world in the centuries to come. It's quite possible that some sort of Greek state in the region would have remained in existance (all claiming to be Rome, of course) for a much longer time. A Greek Empire meant a relatively solid wall between the Turks and the various Balkan peoples who were starting to revive themselves from Byzantine rule.

[The Dark]

Did they follow the teachings of Christ?

Yes.
In Matthew 11:20-24 jesus condemns entire cities to a fate worse then that suffered by Sodom and Gomorra because they they didn't care for his preaching. What a benevolent man he was...

No, he said they would be judged harshly because they did not repent(Matthew 11:20-21,23).

Mark 6:11 and Luke 10:10-15 , say basically the same thing.

Since these are the Synoptic Gospels and use the same source for the legends (most likely Mark first), the previous answer applies

Luke 19:27 contains an outright order to kill those that preferred not to be ruled by him.

He's speaking in a parable. I suppose Jesus was also a widow who lost coins and a shepherd who looked for sheep on a mountain, considering how literally you take his parables . As a matter of fact, the parable alludes to the journey by Archaleaus, son of King Herod. In 4 BCE he went to Rome to gain the throne of Judea. A delegation of leaders opposed his mission, and he ended up condemning them to death. Whether this parable was actually spoken by Jesus or was added later as a form of historical narrative is uncertain.

In Luke 22:51-53 jesus outright admits that he did not come to Earth to bring peace, but rather division, even among families.

Luke 22:51-53 says

But Jesus said "No more of this!" And he touched his ear and healed him. Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple police, and the elders who had come for him, "Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a bandit? When I was with you day after day in the temple, you did not lay hands on me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness!"

The verse you're referring to is Luke 12:51-53, as well as Matthew 10:34-36. It's primarily an acknowledgment that people will not follow him. I don't know the original Greek, but I've been told that it's not quite the same as our translations. If you're willing to wait a few days, I could ask our professor of Hellenistic Greek to provide a more literal translation from Greek to English, though it would depend on how much spare time she has.

BTW I seriously doubt that jesus ever excisted as a historical person.[/quote]

[weemadando]

Motivation for the crusades?

CASH - major consideration. "Liberate" a city from the heathens and declare yourself prince. Then take all the money and land...

Prestige - another big'un. Hey, you're a prince, who cares how many people you killed to get there!

[Coyote]

The modern image of Chritianity (or at least, the one that folks want to perpetuate, it seems) is the "Little House on the Prarie" vision of humble family, hearth and home, community bonds and seeking ot avoid trouble and mind one's own business.

But all the religions, I must admit, did come from very bloody backgrounds... and while the modern versions are more appealing (although Islam hasn't gotten on board yet it seems) the truth of the past must be faced trutfully and critically.

[Peregrin Toker]

Exactly.

At least that's what Martin Luther wants you to believe....

The same Martin Luther who wrote the lovely tome "On Jews and their Lies". And there's still a church named after the bastard. Why not a Church of Hitler?

Then again, the Maoists are still around too....

[Darth Wong]

The same Martin Luther who wrote the lovely tome "On Jews and their Lies". And there's still a church named after the bastard. Why not a Church of Hitler?

Then again, the Maoists are still around too....

And how does that mitigate the fact that the Lutheran church still sings the praises of the man who wrote "On Jews and their Lies" and served as inspiration for Adolf Hitler? There are a lot more people who approve of Lutherans than Maoists.

[Sir Sirius]

In Matthew 11:20-24 jesus condemns entire cities to a fate worse then that suffered by Sodom and Gomorra because they they didn't care for his preaching. What a benevolent man he was...

No, he said they would be judged harshly because they did not repent(Matthew 11:20-21,23).

And that improves the matter how? jesus still basically says "do as I will or suffer a horrible faith".

Mark 6:11 and Luke 10:10-15 , say basically the same thing.

Since these are the Synoptic Gospels and use the same source for the legends (most likely Mark first), the previous answer applies

Same here.

Luke 19:27 contains an outright order to kill those that preferred not to be ruled by him.

He's speaking in a parable. I suppose Jesus was also a widow who lost coins and a shepherd who looked for sheep on a mountain, considering how literally you take his parables

Eh..a parabel as defined by Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary:

A comparison; a similitude; specifically, a short fictitious narrative of something which might really occur in life or nature, by means of which a moral is drawn; as, the parables of Christ.

Now tell me how it helps the matter that it is a parabel.

As a matter of fact, the parable alludes to the journey by Archaleaus, son of King Herod. In 4 BCE he went to Rome to gain the throne of Judea. A delegation of leaders opposed his mission, and he ended up condemning them to death. Whether this parable was actually spoken by Jesus or was added later as a form of historical narrative is uncertain.

It is still in the bible, how or why it got there in the first place doesn't really matter since the catholic church considered the bible to be the innerrant literal word of god in the middle-ages, as did most christians of the time.

In Luke 22:51-53 jesus outright admits that he did not come to Earth to bring peace, but rather division, even among families.

Luke 22:51-53 says <snip>
The verse you're referring to is Luke 12:51-53, as well as Matthew 10:34-36.

I made a typo, 22 instead of 12 as it should have been.

It's primarily an acknowledgment that people will not follow him.

Well unfortunately people do follow him and the verses also explicitly state that he did not come to "give peace on earth". Which was the kinda the point.

I don't know the original Greek, but I've been told that it's not quite the same as our translations. If you're willing to wait a few days, I could ask our professor of Hellenistic Greek to provide a more literal translation from Greek to English, though it would depend on how much spare time she has.

I'll wait, but until such a translation is presented this isn't really an arqument.

[NecronLord]

Worthwhile and lasting results of the crusades... St John's Ambulance... Formerly The Order of Malta... (after they got kicked out of Rhodes)

Other than that the crusades did jack all in the end.