Hypothetical question: Alien technology discovered in orbit

[ThomasP]

I've got a question for any of you familiar with military and intelligence policy. This is a semi-serious question, but I'll take any kind of fun speculation too. This may be more SF in the scheme of things, but I thought I'd get more serious input here.

Let's say some time in the 60s or 70s, maybe even into the 80s with the Shuttle program, some kind of alien device was discovered in orbit by a NASA mission. The details of the device don't matter, but say it's a spheroid about a meter across, with some weird symbols scrawled on it and materials that leave no doubt it was engineered by somebody -- just nobody human. It's entirely nonfunctional and inert, but conclusive evidence of alien intelligence, and advanced civilization at that.

The first question is fairly important: is it plausible that this thing would be brought back to Earth for study? Is it plausible that this could happen with no knowledge being released to the public, with both astronauts and ground crews keeping quiet about it? I could see it being considered a national security kind of issue, but that's a total guess on my part.

Assuming that hurdle is passed, what I'm really curious about is who would do the studying, and perhaps what kind of tests they'd try to run on it. For the purposes of the scenario, I'm assuming this device is "outside context problem" level of technology; it's not actively harmful, but it's a case of giving the laptop to the caveman kind of disparity. Is this a military issue? CIA kind of thing? Somebody else?

What happens to this thing, and who's given control of it? Would the public ever hear about it?

[Junghalli]

What kind of orbit is it in?

Things in the kind of orbits the space shuttle typically operates in have a pretty short orbital lifespan without active stationkeeping IIRC; they're still in the tenuous fringes of Earth's atmosphere and the drag eventually deorbits them. It this thing has been there a long time it'll probably be in a high orbit, which I imagine means you'll probably need a special spacecraft to retrieve it (or at least have to modify an existing one to carry more fuel).

[ThomasP]

Good point. I'm going on the assumption that this thing has been there awhile (in the geological sense of "awhile"), and hasn't been doing anything to keep itself there (though it probably could, no reason it couldn't have magic-tech counter-grav thrusters for the sake of the scenario if that helps), so wherever it needs to be for that to work.

[Samuel]

The public hears about it because NASA wants more funding in order to find more of these, plus proving there is intelligent life in the rest of the universe is a big feather in their cap. I don't see why anyone would cover this up as publicity only helps them show that they aren't wasting taxpayer dollars.

Also, depending on what it does, competition with the Soviets to map out the rest of the solar system and find more of these heats up.

If it is just a sphere of metal, nothing major changes and some claim it is a hoax, but if it can do things like putting a current through it causes it to discharge a proportionally larger current and there is no maximum to be seen or other rule breaking activity everyone become very interested in it.

[Junghalli]

Good point. I'm going on the assumption that this thing has been there awhile (in the geological sense of "awhile"), and hasn't been doing anything to keep itself there (though it probably could, no reason it couldn't have magic-tech counter-grav thrusters for the sake of the scenario if that helps), so wherever it needs to be for that to work.

It might be using a solar sail for stationkeeping, although I'm not sure how far up you have to be for that to be viable.

According to this the exosphere goes up to around 12-1300 km above Earth's surface, so if you want the object to have a stable orbit it's probably best to put it above 1300 km. The apogee of the International Space Station, by contrast, is 360 km.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I'm sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that the spook agencies would want to keep it a secret, the kind of thing known only the branch of The Agency (whichever that is) and maybe sitting Presidents...

But it's entirely possible NASA would reveal it before they know about it. Then again, wasn't there a huge stir about a live feed from one of the shuttle missions allegedly seeing a UFO, the feed being cut, and now that video has gone missing from all official sources?

I think you need to better define your scenario: does the news of the thing get credibly leaked to the world, or is it successfully covered up?

[ThomasP]

The public hears about it because NASA wants more funding in order to find more of these, plus proving there is intelligent life in the rest of the universe is a big feather in their cap. I don't see why anyone would cover this up as publicity only helps them show that they aren't wasting taxpayer dollars.

Also, depending on what it does, competition with the Soviets to map out the rest of the solar system and find more of these heats up.

If it is just a sphere of metal, nothing major changes and some claim it is a hoax, but if it can do things like putting a current through it causes it to discharge a proportionally larger current and there is no maximum to be seen or other rule breaking activity everyone become very interested in it.

Right, that's a good point, and why I'm kinda looking for an angle here. Would the equation change if this was some kind of Space Command or USAF mission instead? Is that even plausible? Having some kind of shadow space program to go about that exploration sounds cool but not terribly realistic.

What if the thing shows some signs of activity that might make it worth keeping secret? Though I have to wonder if they'd risk bringing it to Earth, given that.

Maybe I should redefine the question a bit. What I'm getting at is that I want some kind of alien device to be found, something that might have magic-tech properties (maybe something as per your last line, making it very valuable to whomever finds it), but something that could be plausibly kept secret. I don't want to go the Roswell crashed-flying-saucer route, because it doesn't fit with the kind of alien civilization I'm wanting to deal with.

I'm after a scenario where the thing has been kept quiet, but then somehow comes to life. For story purposes, I would like that this have happened 5-10 years prior to the start of the story, with no public knowledge...but thinking on it, the discovery of said device in the story-present and ensuing space race is something worth considering.

I'm mainly trying to flesh out my options here.

[Temujin]

I've got a question for any of you familiar with military and intelligence policy. This is a semi-serious question, but I'll take any kind of fun speculation too. This may be more SF in the scheme of things, but I thought I'd get more serious input here.

Let's say some time in the 60s or 70s, maybe even into the 80s with the Shuttle program, some kind of alien device was discovered in orbit by a NASA mission. The details of the device don't matter, but say it's a spheroid about a meter across, with some weird symbols scrawled on it and materials that leave no doubt it was engineered by somebody -- just nobody human. It's entirely nonfunctional and inert, but conclusive evidence of alien intelligence, and advanced civilization at that.

I actually was just daydreaming a somewhat similar scenario set in the mid-70s, but the object was more akin to Clarke's Rama.

The first question is fairly important: is it plausible that this thing would be brought back to Earth for study? Is it plausible that this could happen with no knowledge being released to the public, with both astronauts and ground crews keeping quiet about it? I could see it being considered a national security kind of issue, but that's a total guess on my part.

It would have to be LEO for Shuttle recovery, but I don't see station keeping as an issue if its OCP level tech; just hand wave it away as Clarke Tech. And yes, with the shuttle it would definitely be brought back, but I doubt it would be kept 100% secret. A lot of Roswell style rumors would fly.

Assuming that hurdle is passed, what I'm really curious about is who would do the studying, and perhaps what kind of tests they'd try to run on it. For the purposes of the scenario, I'm assuming this device is "outside context problem" level of technology; it's not actively harmful, but it's a case of giving the laptop to the caveman kind of disparity. Is this a military issue? CIA kind of thing? Somebody else?

The top spooks and people who run Black project programs, with other specialists brought in as needed.

What happens to this thing, and who's given control of it? Would the public ever hear about it?

I think there are too many potential variables to say.

[PeZook]

It's impossible to keep a Shuttle launch secret. Or any launch, for that matter. Somebody would talk, since too many people would be involved in the operation, and all foreign governments would know you recovered something that wasn't a satellite.

If it was a launch done by the air force, you have a shot at keeping the payload returned secret for about 10 years, then the rumors start circulating, then somebody writes a book about it.

Or a lone journalist finds out after two months

[Sarevok]

The Manhatten project was kept a secret from the public untill the first weapon was used against Japan. In todays context virtually nothing concrete is known about US spy satelites and military spaceplanes. Just because you make a manned rocket launch to medium earth orbit does not mean the true purpose of the mission is revealed....Even the spaceshuttle made military flights whose real purpose was a secret.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Good point. I'm going on the assumption that this thing has been there awhile (in the geological sense of "awhile"), and hasn't been doing anything to keep itself there (though it probably could, no reason it couldn't have magic-tech counter-grav thrusters for the sake of the scenario if that helps), so wherever it needs to be for that to work.

It might be using a solar sail for stationkeeping, although I'm not sure how far up you have to be for that to be viable.

Or a magnetic sail; a loop of superconductor with a current running though it to catch the solar wind. Just as passive as a solar sail and less obvious. I know they've been suggested as a means of keeping satellites in otherwise unstable orbits.

[Admiral Valdemar]

How about we investigate the moon Janus instead?

[Samuel]

The Manhatten project was kept a secret from the public untill the first weapon was used against Japan. In todays context virtually nothing concrete is known about US spy satelites and military spaceplanes. Just because you make a manned rocket launch to medium earth orbit does not mean the true purpose of the mission is revealed....Even the spaceshuttle made military flights whose real purpose was a secret.

Except that was during wartime where the idea of spilling secrets was considered treasonous. And the Russians managed to find out about it. Plus there is a difference between "specs for military gear that can only be useful to our enemies" versus "greatest discovery of all time".

I actually was just daydreaming a somewhat similar scenario set in the mid-70s, but the object was more akin to Clarke's Rama.

You can't keep an object that big secret. People with telescopes can spot it.

Right, that's a good point, and why I'm kinda looking for an angle here. Would the equation change if this was some kind of Space Command or USAF mission instead? Is that even plausible? Having some kind of shadow space program to go about that exploration sounds cool but not terribly realistic.

You mean Battlezone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone ... ideo_game)

If you want it secret make it so that they think it is an asteroid and then find out that the covering was just camoflague. And that its physics defiance is something like messing with inertia, killing the people working with it and making it easy for whatever it is to be covered up.

[eion]

What would happen if you try to deorbit an object activly resisting deorbiting with anti-gravity technology?

You might not be able to bring the monolith down, you might have to build a space station around it in order to study it and keep it secret.

Which I think actually sounds cooler. The Air Force builds a station around the monolith that becomes the home base for interplanetary travel and since the monolith keeps adapting to the added mass the station can be both large and low in orbit without needing massive ammounts of thruster fuel to keep it in orbit.

[Temujin]

I actually was just daydreaming a somewhat similar scenario set in the mid-70s, but the object was more akin to Clarke's Rama.

You can't keep an object that big secret. People with telescopes can spot it.

Well some elements were similar, and some weren't.

In my idea the gov't initially tried to keep it's discovery a secret while it was on approach; but when it was found out, all hell broke lose.

[ThomasP]

How about we investigate the moon Janus instead?

Funny you mention that, as Titan and Enceladus (at the very least) play a big part in the device's origins.

No real reason, I just like Saturn.

[Solauren]

How about this for an origin...

It's spotted by amateur astronomers before a space-launch, and responds slightly to a communication attempt (it disrupts global communications for a day or two). Now there is no way to keep it secret, so the space launch is altered to include interception + capture.