Best Military in the Alpha Quadrent

General G · Post by **General G** » 2003-02-21 07:42pm

Which of the Alpha Quadrent Powers has the best military during the

TNG-era
DS9-era
PostDS9-era

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 07:44pm

The Pakleds?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 08:04pm

Starfleet

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-02-21 08:20pm

For all three of the eras you mention, I believe the Romulan Star Empire was dominant.

The xenophobic Romulans, after 50 years of isolation, had built up a large fleet based almost entirely on the D'deridex-class warbird, a ship that one-on-one could beat anything the Klingons or Feds had. When you also consider their cloaking technology, I believe they would have been dominant in any war started during TNG. I don't believe the situation was much different during DS9, being only 5-10 years later. The Federation might have improved a bit by the start of the Dominion War with their high number of Galaxy-class ships. Had they mass produced more Defiants, there might have been a real difference. But I still give the Romulans the top spot.

In the aftermath of the Dominion War, the Romulans will be even MORE dominant. They only fought for the second half of the war. It was also clearly stated near the end that Klingons had by far lost the most number of ships. As if that wasn't enough, imagine the Scimitar's new cloaking tech going into the existing warbirds…the Romulans are a terrifying force going into the 2380s. They might be able to dismantle the UFP and Klingon Empire at the same time.

On the flip side, the one Romulan weakness is probably their infrastructure. They hold less territory than either of the other two, which means they put a good deal more of their GNP into their fleet of 1.2km-long warbirds. In a prolonged war, the Roms would have a tougher time replacing the ships they lost.

Such was not always the case. The UFP was clearly the dominant power during TOS, hence the alliance between the other two major powers despite their hatred for one another.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 08:30pm

Captain Kruger wrote:For all three of the eras you mention, I believe the Romulan Star Empire was dominant.

The xenophobic Romulans, after 50 years of isolation, had built up a large fleet based almost entirely on the D'deridex-class warbird, a ship that one-on-one could beat anything the Klingons or Feds had. When you also consider their cloaking technology, I believe they would have been dominant in any war started during TNG. I don't believe the situation was much different during DS9, being only 5-10 years later. The Federation might have improved a bit by the start of the Dominion War with their high number of Galaxy-class ships. Had they mass produced more Defiants, there might have been a real difference. But I still give the Romulans the top spot.

In the aftermath of the Dominion War, the Romulans will be even MORE dominant. They only fought for the second half of the war. It was also clearly stated near the end that Klingons had by far lost the most number of ships. As if that wasn't enough, imagine the Scimitar's new cloaking tech going into the existing warbirds…the Romulans are a terrifying force going into the 2380s. They might be able to dismantle the UFP and Klingon Empire at the same time.

On the flip side, the one Romulan weakness is probably their infrastructure. They hold less territory than either of the other two, which means they put a good deal more of their GNP into their fleet of 1.2km-long warbirds. In a prolonged war, the Roms would have a tougher time replacing the ships they lost.

Such was not always the case. The UFP was clearly the dominant power during TOS, hence the alliance between the other two major powers despite their hatred for one another.

I disagree....

The Romulans have never demonstrated the "superiority" of the warbird. During TNG when the Romulans knew they were going to being confronting the E-D they always sent in at least two warbirds. During VGR "Message in a Bottle" two warbirds were forced to retreat by two Defiants, one Akira, and a the Prometheus which was being computer controlled. (The third warbird was destroyed.)

During the attempted invasion of Vulcan the E-D caused a warbird to destroy the invasion force it was escorting and then retreat.

During the Dominion War, Admiral Ross forced the Romulans to remove some weapons it setup by Bajor.

Baron Mordo · Post by **Baron Mordo** » 2003-02-21 08:31pm

How big is the D'Deridex?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-21 08:34pm

Baron Mordo wrote:How big is the D'Deridex?

1200 meters IIRC

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-21 09:09pm

General G wrote:Which of the Alpha Quadrent Powers has the best military during the

TNG-era
DS9-era
PostDS9-era

Um, exactly how much post-DS9 info do we have? Two movies and a few snapshots from Voyager?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-21 09:54pm

Define "best"

IMHO Starfleet is on top because they have been consistently victorious. The dominion war though only serves to intertwine the fates of the three powers.

General G · Post by **General G** » 2003-02-21 10:32pm

Define "best"

Quality of personnel, the power and reliability of their weapons, effectiveness of ship designs ect.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-21 10:41pm

pretty tough standards for AQ powers....

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-22 12:47am

Darth Fanboy wrote:pretty tough standards for AQ powers....

Not at all.........

Whoever is the best out of the AQ powers.....is the best? That is the question after all.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-02-22 01:27am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Fanboy wrote:pretty tough standards for AQ powers....
Not at all.........

Whoever is the best out of the AQ powers.....is the best? That is the question after all.

just a joke regarding an utter lack of military quality in the AQ thats all.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-02-22 03:17am

From what I've heard, Cardies or Rommies are the least stupid, compared to Klingons charging with Batleths and Feddie incompetance. At least the Cardies actually have the brains to develop a strategic weapon (Dreadnought missile). It was pretty stupid that it did not detonate, since if it crashed into a base containment should have been broken and it should have detonated anyways. Typical B&B thinking. Don't remember much else though.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-02-22 03:48am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Baron Mordo wrote:How big is the D'Deridex?
1200 meters IIRC

Actually, most of the D'Deridex' interior volume is actually empty space... the ship is designed to be as intimidating as possible. This doesn't keep the D'Deridex from being a very imposing sight.

By the way, aren't the Romulans a Beta Quadrant superpower rather than an Alpha Quadrant superpower???

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2003-02-22 04:25am

Yes, the Klingons and Romulans are in the BQ. Thus, they are excluded from this debate.:p

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-22 05:35am

Darth Fanboy wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Fanboy wrote:pretty tough standards for AQ powers....
Not at all.........

Whoever is the best out of the AQ powers.....is the best? That is the question after all.
just a joke regarding an utter lack of military quality in the AQ thats all.

Yeah I know. You've been doing a lot of that recently. I'm sure others have as well but for some reason yours sticks out.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-02-22 05:37am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Baron Mordo wrote:How big is the D'Deridex?
1200 meters IIRC
Actually, most of the D'Deridex' interior volume is actually empty space... the ship is designed to be as intimidating as possible. This doesn't keep the D'Deridex from being a very imposing sight.

By the way, aren't the Romulans a Beta Quadrant superpower rather than an Alpha Quadrant superpower???

Very true.

Captain Kruger · Post by **Captain Kruger** » 2003-02-22 06:21am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I disagree....

The Romulans have never demonstrated the "superiority" of the warbird. During TNG when the Romulans knew they were going to being confronting the E-D they always sent in at least two warbirds. During VGR "Message in a Bottle" two warbirds were forced to retreat by two Defiants, one Akira, and a the Prometheus which was being computer controlled. (The third warbird was destroyed.)

During the attempted invasion of Vulcan the E-D caused a warbird to destroy the invasion force it was escorting and then retreat.

During the Dominion War, Admiral Ross forced the Romulans to remove some weapons it setup by Bajor.

I based my opinion on a few factors. One, the immense surface area of the warbird means they can mount much more firepower on her. Two, during the Tin Man episode, we saw a warbird do a strafing run on the E-D with just its single nose-mounted disruptor. It fired just a few shots and tore the shit out of the E-D's shields. Several hours later, the shields were still fucked. No other vessel of the main powers has demonstrated the ability to do that against a Galaxy-class in a one-on-one engagement. And three, the warbirds use a quantum singularity power source, which most people seem to believe would be inherently more powerful than matter/anti-matter.

Now on to your points…

During TNG when the Romulans knew they were going to being confronting the E-D they always sent in at least two warbirds.

I never said the warbird was overwhelmingly superior to the Galaxy-class. It's possible they're close enough in capabilities for the Galaxy to get lucky. This fact would not be lost on a Romulan commander, who is not supremely eager to die in battle like a Klingon would be.

Under those circumstances, wouldn't you send more than one ship? It would make the enemy's situation even more hopeless. Sending just one when you have more available would be military incompetence. Even though that's a common trait in Star Trek, the Romulans seem to be a lot smarter than everyone else in this department.

During the attempted invasion of Vulcan the E-D caused a warbird to destroy the invasion force it was escorting and then retreat.

The Romulan objective was to capture Vulcan. That was to be achieved by smuggling in Romulan troops aboard three Vulcan ships. When the E-D crew notified everyone in advance of the plans, the gig was up and the Romulan mission was a failure.

At that point, what would have been the point of opening fire on the E-D? There was no strategic reason to do that. And as I said above, sometimes the inferior ship can get lucky.

Their mission was a failure. At that point, you have to cut your losses. Think like a Romulan for a moment. What would the better cleanup action be, kill the troops to avoid their capture and interrogation, or start a firefight with the Federation flagship and possibly lose, thereby allowing them to capture the troops? Shooting the Vulcan ships was the only 100% guarantee of avoiding the troops' capture.

During VGR "Message in a Bottle" two warbirds were forced to retreat by two Defiants, one Akira, and a the Prometheus which was being computer controlled. (The third warbird was destroyed.)

The Akira and Prometheus classes both pack a much heavier punch than the Galaxy. IIRC, all those ships you mentioned jumped on that third warbird at the same time. So what you have here is four well-armed Fed ships ripping into one Rom. This doesn't necessarily take anything away from the warbird.

The objective in this episode was to capture the Prometheus. Once the shooting started, there was pretty much no hope of achieving that goal. Therefore, there was no reason for the two remaining Roms to stay. Remember, the Romulans think strategically rather than killing ships just to kill ships. Their mission was a failure and they had already lost one of their ships, therefore it was time to go.

During the Dominion War, Admiral Ross forced the Romulans to remove some weapons it setup by Bajor.

Same explanation as above. Would it have been better to capitulate to the Fed demand, or push the point and end up in a firefight with them when they were supposed to be allies against the Dominion? Once Ross put his foot down, only a moron would have turned it into a firefight. There was too much to lose. On the flip side, if the Roms had pressed the point, I think Ross might have backed down rather than losing Alliance ships that could fight against the Dominion.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-02-22 10:55am

Best military in the Alpha Quadrant is the Galactic Empire.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-02-22 11:30am

paladin wrote:Best military in the Alpha Quadrant is the Galactic Empire.

Uncalled for. This is PST.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-02-22 12:42pm

I agree, the Romulans seem to be the only ones capable of real strategicc thinking. Still, they're far from as smart as they could be.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-22 01:36pm

Do we have any numbers regarding the Romulan fleet?

It could be that Starfleet outnumbers the Romulan fleet, which would explain why Admiral Jerok(sp?) was convinced another Federation/Romulan war would destroy the Romulan Empire.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-02-22 02:31pm

The Federation probably has a larger fleet than the Romulans, given the greater variety of ships. Some can probably match a Warbird, some probably don't. The sheer weight of numbers, and the Federation alliance with the Klingons, is what kept the Romulans from entering a war with the Federation. Hence the whole thing with Sela trying to undermind that alliance.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-22 02:37pm

The Romulans' TNG-era dependence on exactly one ship class is probably not indicative of a competent military. There are most likely benefits to a variety of ship classes from small to large, rather than "one size fits all".

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Best Military in the Alpha Quadrent

Best Military in the Alpha Quadrent

Re: Best Military in the Alpha Quadrent