SDN Worlds 4 Commentary Thread II

[Steve]

Since 'Zook came up with them, and 'Zook said atmo only, I was kinda going with who made them, not the guy looking for an excuse to inflict mass death and just asking for Lord Fisher's ships to shoot them to pieces in retaliation. *grumbles*

As for engaging atmospheric craft.... yeah, that's why we're using orbital bombardment with light batteries, allowing more precision hits to take out their defenses, before we send in the landing troops. This would have been part of the operational plan, which Hushy would have been briefed on, for God's sake.

[Darkevilme]

Since 'Zook came up with them, and 'Zook said atmo only, I was kinda going with who made them, not the guy looking for an excuse to inflict mass death and just asking for Lord Fisher's ships to shoot them to pieces in retaliation. *grumbles*

As for engaging atmospheric craft.... yeah, that's why we're using orbital bombardment with light batteries, allowing more precision hits to take out their defenses, before we send in the landing troops. This would have been part of the operational plan, which Hushy would have been briefed on, for God's sake.

but isn't asking the Shepistani's not to use high yield nukes like asking the Bragulans to go have a shave?

[MKSheppard]

Since 'Zook came up with them, and 'Zook said atmo only

Atmo only makes no sense in the context of heavy mobile launchers. With the kind of technology we got going so far in this game, you can have a random guy pull out a unobtanium powered 30 pound warhead that fits onto his RPG-7 launcher clone that lets him engage Mach 2 fighterbombers up to 40,000 feet. So what does that say about a 2,000-4,000 lb missile in a universe where a 26,000 lb fighter can achieve orbit easily, and then fly to the MOOON with the meatbag pilot on board plus several thousand pounds of ordnance?

[Steve]

Uh, FL, it's more likely that those missiles would be shot down by the Challenger's fire, which is actually aiming at them, instead of Shepistani counter-fire aiming at non-existent missiles fired into space.

[Force Lord]

Ah, I was confused.

[RogueIce]

Just because the setting allows for (relatively) easy surface-to-orbit weapons, doesn't imply that only STO weapons exist, and there are no surface-to-air launchers at all.

As to why Pendleton is so limited, it could be a number of things. From being one system located in a remote and difficult to reach part of the Outback, to the fact their slavocracy will not befriend them to a lot of people, to the fact that maybe they're cheap and never bought any, or if they did the launchers feel into disuse for lack of maintainence, or any number of other reasons.

Either way, PeZook described them as atmosphere only. And since he's the one who made the post, I would think he should be the one to state either way what they are. And he's said atmosphere weapons.

[Shroom Man 777]

Perhaps the Shepistanis thought they were space-capable missiles, and thus nuked the Pendletonians even if those missiles they had were atmo-only? The Shepistanis could've expected the worst. They might be surprised that the enemy was packing near 20th/21st-century level SAMs instead of the expected STO-missiles.

[Steve]

If that were true, Shroom, then he'd also note they were all being fired at a trajectory that would send them off past the South pole, away from most ships save the maneuvering Challenger, which is already engaging with its batteries.

[MKSheppard]

Fine, whatever.

[Shroom Man 777]

Ah, yeah. Well, in that case, man. Sheppy, maybe you should edit Hushy just railgunning the Pendletonians some more? It won't make sense for the battlestar to shoot flak and roll over to evade when the missiles haven't even gotten anywhere near close to orbit.

[Simon_Jester]

Also, Shep...those missiles were launched only at the Centrality destroyer, because the goddamn spitroasting Astarians thought it was gonna comb the ground and find their mobile launchers...

So they basically fired only at a single smallish ship; not at people who are orbiting over a sector and lazily firing 0.25 to 20 kt nuclear shells from orbit at random targets?

The Sheppo ship is in high planetary orbit; it has to be in order to be able to loiter over the target (unless it's balancing on its thrusters, which I guess is possible).

Assuming the Pendletonians have SAMs capable of engaging targets in high orbit (quite possible), they're still not going to get the missiles through the Coalition point defense, unless they have absolutely ridiculous numbers of them, which they can't afford. Targets in low planetary orbit or the atmosphere will be much easier, because missiles launched against those targets have shorter flight times, and because it will be harder for the Coalition fleet to engage the missiles.

That's why the Coalition is still in high orbit- they're doing the SEAD work from farther out, high enough up that they're effectively immune to missile attack from the planet below.

OK, so with the amended information you have...

I think you outgun the entire blockade fleet.

So, we'll be moving plenty of ships your way. And the main group is out in V19, right?

Well, I have enough to get writing. Needless to say, the blockade fleet won't go all the way out of the Outback to follow you. So there probably will be no communications between the Centrality forces and the fleet at Bannerman in that case.

Well, the Centrality light elements have 3680 points to the blockade force's 2880*. The blockade force has four capital ships (your carrier and three Hiigaran ships) significantly heavier than any of their units, but the Centrals have overwhelming numbers. That said, the Centralists aren't going to want to risk a fight with the blockade fleet, or vice versa; that risks a war they can't win. And the blockade fleet is large enough that Admiral Paktu can afford to take a fairly hard line; they aren't hopelessly outgunned and they know the world is watching.

*Disregarding the Umerian contingent, since the only useful ships they have are a 30$ frigate and a 60$ light cruiser that they can't control the deep-space recon cutters without...

[Shroom Man 777]

Fine, whatever.

Maybe you could just edit it a bit, since the missiles were SAMs and it would be weird for the battlestar to be dodging and flakking at missiles that haven't even broken atmo. Maybe have Hushy just use more orbital railguns together with Anglian counter-battery fire instead of strat nukes? The fact that he's working with the Anglians to provide NON-NUCLEAR SEAD would make him 'GRRR!'


Hai guise, I also posted my military expansion listing!

[Steve]

I'm also honestly presuming competency amongst the Shepistani officers. They were briefed on Pendleton's defensive capabilities, they would know its missile types and engagement capability, and sensors can tell them if someone's shooting missiles at them. And I'm not even complaining about the 'Ha ha ha I'm nuking school buses and ambulances" bit.

[RogueIce]

OK, to clear up some confusion over the Centrality and Bannerman, here's how I see things as happening:

The Centrality sends mission to "rescue" their citizens from Pendleton. They only do this after the Coalition Fleet begins forming up and such.

To that end, the 5th Fleet, consisiting of:

Code: Select all

1 Dreadnought
1 Ultra Carrier
2 Super Carriers
4 Battle Carriers
2 Battleships
4 Battlecruisers
8 Fleet Carriers
16 Light Carriers
32 Escort Carriers
8 Cruisers
16 Destroyers
32 Frigates

and that cloaked destroyer are dispatched. The 5th Fleet will arrive at sector V-19, presumably somewhere close to the marked hyperlane between the Imperium and New Anglia. Somewhere along the way, the New Anglians are alerted and dispatch their Grand Fleet to Bannerman Lochley's Retreat (NOT Bannerman itself, but close by), just in case.

So the 5th Fleet arrives, sends in that cloaked destroyer to go to Pendleton. They don't arrive until during/after the battle with the Monolith and end up being detected. Thus we are where we are now with them entering orbit.

Meanwhile, the following ships from the 5th Fleet:

Code: Select all

8 Fleet Carriers
16 Light Carriers
32 Escort Carriers
8 Cruisers
16 Destroyers
32 Frigates

left the V-19 "staging area" and hypered to the outskirts of the Bannerman System, to stick around and possibly back up the extraction if needed.

However, this detachment was detected by the blockade fleet at Bannerman. The Blockade Fleet, startled and worried about these mysterious 112 ships lurking around, sent a group to identify and challenge the interlopers. The Centrality ships, due to mission orders, paranoia, whatever, hypered out (back to the rest of 5th Fleet at V-19) without responding; only wanting to respond from a "position of strength".

However, since the blockade fleet has to remain behind to, well, blockade, they won't get the chance to respond because nobody is following them back out of the Outback into the 'empty space' where the 5th Fleet is waiting. Unless the New Anglian Grand Fleet (which I assume hadn't arrived yet) decides to follow up after arriving at Bannerman and being briefed on what happened (since they know it was a Centrality Fleet heading to the hyperlane, I would also assume the rest of the blockade fleet will then deduce that those 112 ships were from the Centrality).

That's pretty much how I understand the flow of events to be, in the rough chronolgy of how they took place. If anyone has any questions or clarifications to add, please don't hesitate to respond.

[Shroom Man 777]

@ STEVE:

Well, it IS an OOC misunderstanding. Mangs.

EDIT:

Man! No! GAYETA! He's gone!

[Steve]

The Grand Fleet's going to Lochley's Retreat, not Bannerman. It's in position to hyper to Bannerman within hours.

[Darkevilme]

Is there any actual hard rules on what you can cloak and how much it costs to put a cloak on things?

[Simon_Jester]

Is there any actual hard rules on what you can cloak and how much it costs to put a cloak on things?

No and I would be just as happy to keep it that way.

What I'd hope for is some restraint: use of cloaked ships on a small scale for special operations, but not cloaking of entire fleets. As long as that constraint is applied, I think we're OK.

[Steve]

Okay, I'm sorry. I've been snippy today, and that includes being snippy to Shep. I've overreacted even while Shep was being restrained (by his standards anyway ). It was the second post especially that drew my ire, the "Oh, it doesn't matter, we've already inflicted massive casualties throughout the countryside and some cities" bit, and Zook's intention for the missiles was the justification to kill the entire thing.

I apologize.

[RogueIce]

The Grand Fleet's going to Lochley's Retreat, not Bannerman. It's in position to hyper to Bannerman within hours.

Ah, ok. So nobody will be following the Centralists to V-19 then.

Would it still be safe to assume the New Anglians will end up informing the forces at Bannerman of the Centrality Fleet at some point? Or would the blockaders be left wondering for awhile? (Of course, sooner or later, people will figure it out anyway)

[Steve]

The Grand Fleet's going to Lochley's Retreat, not Bannerman. It's in position to hyper to Bannerman within hours.

Ah, ok. So nobody will be following the Centralists to V-19 then.

Would it still be safe to assume the New Anglians will end up informing the forces at Bannerman of the Centrality Fleet at some point? Or would the blockaders be left wondering for awhile? (Of course, sooner or later, people will figure it out anyway)

We'd tell them.

[RogueIce]

Updated my summary post with following correction:

New Anglian Grand Fleet is going to Lochley's Retreat, NOT Bannerman. Also took out the bit about them "arriving at Bannerman" because, well, they're not going there.

[Force Lord]

Poor Tardis. Sooner or later he's has to make a decision...

[Steve]

FL, detecting the fleet at a distance of 2+ sectors is not going to happen from a starship-based sensor suite. However, you can still see them coming if you do something as simple as observe hypercom civilian radio traffic, because a deployment of the Grand Fleet is not going to be missed. You've probably picked up chatter from sources in Lochley's Retreat or Burleywood about the Grand Fleet's approach, the required changes to space traffic patterns to accommodate it, etc.

[Steve]

Poor Tardis. Sooner or later he's has to make a decision...

He could defect!

j/k

He's not in a good position, truly. His only real way to get Datton back would be to send a hypercom transmission to the Anglian naval station at Lochley's Retreat, inform them with as little detail as possible of the Datton's mission, and hope for the best. Otherwise he's got no control over the situation; he has no way of getting to Datton at all.