I'm starting to wonder how many of those situations where we hear of repeated tasering for small things might be from the irritability and mood swings this stuff induces, if it's really this prevalent.Matthew, who asked that his name be changed for this article, had experimented with steroids in college. But it wasn't until an enraged criminal swung a crowbar at his fellow officer that he knew he had to buff up on the job.
A six-year veteran of a Pennsylvania police force patrolling an area encroached upon by urban crime, Matthew and his partner struggled for nearly seven minutes to subdue the crazed youth, who was high on PCP and had another officer in a head lock.
Soon after that close call, Matthew turned to illegal anabolic steroids for both strength and self-esteem, a decision for which he paid a heavy price. Two years later, in 2005, he was caught and forced to resign. He spent 23 days in jail.
Matthew's case is just one example in an increasing trend among urban police officers working tough beats. In New York City this week six police officers are being investigated for allegedly using illegal prescriptions to obtain anabolic steroids for bodybuilding.
According to law enforcement experts, Matthew is the prototypical steroid user — in his 30s, white and worried about competing. In Matthew's case, he was trying to stay on top of a job that constantly forced him to face younger and stronger criminals.
"I look back on that and other scuffles, and I was not nearly as tough and strong as I once was," said Matthew, now a 33-year-old single father.
"It scared me to think how easily things could go wrong," said Matthew. "I kept thinking I am only getting older, and the criminals will always be young. I was looking for an edge."
'Juicing' Across the Country
From Boston to Arizona, police departments are investigating a growing number of incidents involving uniformed police officers using steroids. So-called "juicing" has been anecdotally associated with several brutality cases, including the 1997 sodomizing of Haitian immigrant Abner Louima in New York City.
Anabolic steroids are synthesized male sex hormones that promote muscle mass. When prescribed legally, medical steroids are used to treat growth problems in children, anemia and chronic infections like HIV.
Without a prescription, the use of anabolic steroids is illegal. Listed as a Schedule III substance along with morphine, opium and barbiturates, they can be just as psychologically addictive and dangerous.
Very little data are available on the number of adults who illegally use steroids, according to the federal Drug Enforcement Agency, because most abusers end up in private doctors' offices for depression or suicidal tendencies.
A common side effect of steroid use is violent, aggressive behavior that can contribute to poor judgment and even police brutality, according to medical experts.
Gene Sanders, a Spokane, Wash., police psychologist, estimates that up to 25 percent of all police officers in urban settings with gangs and high crime use steroids — many of them defensively.
"How do I deal with people who are in better shape than me and want to kill me?" said Sanders, who worked as a street cop in Los Angeles in the 1970s and saw steroid use soar in the 1990s.
Steroid use is on the rise, and not just among weight lifters and other athletes. An estimated 2.7 percent of all high school seniors have used steroids at least once, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, many of them women.
In the police community, cultural acceptance of bodybuilding and access to online suppliers make it easier for officers to obtain steroids.
Officers Propelled by Fear
"Some of it is real and some of it is imagined on the part of the officers involved: fear, anxiety, wanting to do a better job," said Sanders, who consults with physicians across the country as director of the Police Stress Institute.
The temptation to find a "quick fix" is always present, said Sanders. Several older studies have placed police officers at the "bottom of the fitness scale," below firefighters and outranked by inmates, he said.
Typically, departments "turn a blind eye," to steroid use, according to Sanders.
The International Association of Police Chiefs Association did not return calls for comment, but at least one of those being investigated in the New York City probe is a high-ranking officer, according to local news reports.
"The body feels really comfortable and likes [the hormones]," said Sanders. "You feel better, feel more buff and feel more able to take on the bad people."
Indeed, Matthew felt the positive effects of steroids after only three months' use. His weight jumped from 170 pounds to 192 pounds, and he was able to bench-press 300 pounds from 225 pounds.
His habit — 500-700 milliliters a week injected into his deltoids, thighs or buttocks — cost about $500 a month.
"I was incredibly stronger," he said. "I never felt healthier in my life and woke up full of energy and felt it throughout the day. Never once did I feel out of control."
"Maybe I was a little edgier," he added. "The kids got me upset a little more and I was less tolerant, but never to the point where I would physically do anyone harm."
'More Is Better'
Still, said Sanders, steroid users tend to think "more is better" and don't know where to draw the line as they build bulk. Users typically combine steroids with a combination of drugs in a phenomenon known as "stacking," and "cycle" on and off the drugs to avoid building a tolerance.
"They can go from being calm and collected to raging bulls," said Sanders. "There is also a subcategory of these folks like the crazy Vietnam veteran. They think that if they appear crazy, people will back off."
But even short-term use of steroids can cause damage to brain tissue, which never grows back. And according to the National Institute of Drug Abuse, steroid abuse can cause internal organ damage, jaundice and high blood pressure.
Men can also experience testicle shrinkage and breast development. Women can see side effects of facial hair growth, menstrual changes and a deepened voice. Teenagers may stop growing.
Research shows extreme mood swings can occur as a result of taking steroids, leading to violence. Users may suffer irritability, delusions and impaired judgment.
"When they are used in excess, the individual crosses the line from adding muscle mass to rage or aggression or suicide," said Dr. Robert S. Gotlin, director of orthopaedic and sports rehabilitation at Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City. "Suppose that person is carrying a gun."
"The results are so profound, and it's so accessible," he said.
In Matthew's case, he obtained steroids from a friend. At least 10 other officers in his 75-member department were users when he started taking them. Steroids are readily accessible at gyms — "if you know the right people" and online, he said.
"When I first became a police officer, I worked out," said Matthew. "As I got older, I ran into bigger kids on the street who were into all kinds of drugs. They don't feel the pain. I thought if I could, I could have something to make me feel better about myself, I could handle it."
Model to Children Now
Because of his felony conviction, Matthew, who had no previous criminal record before his arrest, will never be able to work in law enforcement again. But he hasn't touched steroids since, primarily because he wants to be a role model to his children, who are 4 and 7.
Though he is proud of his 10 years of police work, Matthew now understands how steroids can create monsters out of police officers who are not responsible.
"There are rage issues," he said. "And there's the mental part of it that makes you think you are invincible."
Steroid Use increasing among police.
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
- SirNitram
- Rest in Peace, Black Mage
- Posts: 28367
- Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
- Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere
Steroid Use increasing among police.
Link
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus
Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
The interesting thing about anabolic steroids is that the usual assumption of "roid rage" may be misplaced:
Effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on mood and aggression in normal men: a randomized controlled trial.
That, like most, indicates that there are "some changes" in mood and personality with steroid use. But then we have:
Measures of aggression and mood changes in male weightlifters with and without androgenic anabolic steroid use.
and
Levels of aggression among a group of anabolic-androgenic steroid users.
It may be the case that the types drawn to steroid (ab)use are already the types likely prone to abusive/violent behaviors in the first place. It's also just as possible that it's dose dependent, that said personality type could be susceptible to "rage inducing" effects, or the type that would use them as an excuse to justify what is, in effect, being an asshole.
There is unfortunately a severe lack of real information on the subject due to the drugs being scheduled. This an interesting problem, because I think the officers in the article do have a point -- if it's helping them do the job better (even just psychologically), then I can see the attraction. Then again, I've also known a few cops that added steroids just to add to the power trip, so who knows.
But it is definitely an issue if it's increasing the rate of violence among police officers, whatever the reason. As to prevalence, I really have no idea. I wouldn't think that it would be so widespread, but I could be totally wrong.
Effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on mood and aggression in normal men: a randomized controlled trial.
That, like most, indicates that there are "some changes" in mood and personality with steroid use. But then we have:
Measures of aggression and mood changes in male weightlifters with and without androgenic anabolic steroid use.
and
Levels of aggression among a group of anabolic-androgenic steroid users.
It may be the case that the types drawn to steroid (ab)use are already the types likely prone to abusive/violent behaviors in the first place. It's also just as possible that it's dose dependent, that said personality type could be susceptible to "rage inducing" effects, or the type that would use them as an excuse to justify what is, in effect, being an asshole.
There is unfortunately a severe lack of real information on the subject due to the drugs being scheduled. This an interesting problem, because I think the officers in the article do have a point -- if it's helping them do the job better (even just psychologically), then I can see the attraction. Then again, I've also known a few cops that added steroids just to add to the power trip, so who knows.
But it is definitely an issue if it's increasing the rate of violence among police officers, whatever the reason. As to prevalence, I really have no idea. I wouldn't think that it would be so widespread, but I could be totally wrong.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...
- Shroom Man 777
- FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
- Posts: 21222
- Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
- Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
- Contact:
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Either way, it's still not healthy. The police departments should institute some physical fitness regimens and, ah, don't do drugs (steroids) campaigns. How fit are US cops anyway? In the Philippines, our cops are fatties who use Dirty Harry movies as instructional material.
"DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
-
- Sith Devotee
- Posts: 3395
- Joined: 2005-07-31 06:48am
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
There's also addressing the issue of dealing with "hopped-up youngsters while I get older" that's a claimed reason for wanting a physical edge... and I'm of the general belief that "weapons free" isn't the answer by a long shot.
"Yee's proposal is exactly the sort of thing I would expect some Washington legal eagle to do. In fact, it could even be argued it would be unrealistic to not have a scene in the next book of, say, a Congressman Yee submit the Yee Act for consideration. " - bcoogler on this
"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet
Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread
"My crystal ball is filled with smoke, and my hovercraft is full of eels." - Bayonet
Stark: "You can't even GET to heaven. You don't even know where it is, or even if it still exists."
SirNitram: "So storm Hell." - From the legendary thread
-
- Jedi Knight
- Posts: 665
- Joined: 2005-05-22 10:10pm
- Location: Western Pennsylvania
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
I believe it varies by locality, as do the physical fitness requirements (or lack there of).Shroom Man 777 wrote:Either way, it's still not healthy. The police departments should institute some physical fitness regimens and, ah, don't do drugs (steroids) campaigns. How fit are US cops anyway? In the Philippines, our cops are fatties who use Dirty Harry movies as instructional material.
- Kamakazie Sith
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7555
- Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
- Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
There's another problem in law enforcement. Officers who are so scared to use deadly force when it is reasonable. A suspect attacking them with a crowbar, and his answer is steroids? Ridiculous. Anyone attacks me with any weapon that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death will be shot. That's a decision that all officers should have already made...But it wasn't until an enraged criminal swung a crowbar at his fellow officer that he knew he had to buff up on the job.
"How do I deal with people who are in better shape than me and want to kill me?" said Sanders, who worked as a street cop in Los Angeles in the 1970s and saw steroid use soar in the 1990s.
I've heard rumors of people high on PCP resisting taser, but if you exhausted all your non/less lethal weapons and you're still not gaining any ground. Deadly force should be an option that is considered as the situation develops. Being caught in a headlock by an enraged PCP intoxicated youth would have been one of those moments where starting to think of the line in the sand. I'm not saying automatically shoot someone that has you or your partner in a headlock, but if your partner starts to black out...then it's time.A six-year veteran of a Pennsylvania police force patrolling an area encroached upon by urban crime, Matthew and his partner struggled for nearly seven minutes to subdue the crazed youth, who was high on PCP and had another officer in a head lock.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
- ArmorPierce
- Rabid Monkey
- Posts: 5904
- Joined: 2002-07-04 09:54pm
- Location: Born and raised in Brooklyn, unfornately presently in Jersey
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
It also may have to do with the new found muscles giving them more confidence and in affect, wanting to 'try them out' combined with predisposed personality type.ThomasP wrote:The interesting thing about anabolic steroids is that the usual assumption of "roid rage" may be misplaced:
Effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on mood and aggression in normal men: a randomized controlled trial.
That, like most, indicates that there are "some changes" in mood and personality with steroid use. But then we have:
Measures of aggression and mood changes in male weightlifters with and without androgenic anabolic steroid use.
and
Levels of aggression among a group of anabolic-androgenic steroid users.
It may be the case that the types drawn to steroid (ab)use are already the types likely prone to abusive/violent behaviors in the first place. It's also just as possible that it's dose dependent, that said personality type could be susceptible to "rage inducing" effects, or the type that would use them as an excuse to justify what is, in effect, being an asshole.
There is unfortunately a severe lack of real information on the subject due to the drugs being scheduled. This an interesting problem, because I think the officers in the article do have a point -- if it's helping them do the job better (even just psychologically), then I can see the attraction. Then again, I've also known a few cops that added steroids just to add to the power trip, so who knows.
But it is definitely an issue if it's increasing the rate of violence among police officers, whatever the reason. As to prevalence, I really have no idea. I wouldn't think that it would be so widespread, but I could be totally wrong.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
The problem is there is a lot of negative publicity for police using lethal force. Not to mention police are trained to only kill as an extreme last resort unless the suspect has a firearm. Plus all police shootings from my understanding have a long investigation process where the officer in question is removed from duty for a time. That is why cops try to find ways to increase their take-down abilities with grappling martial arts or in this case steroids.Kamakazie Sith wrote:There's another problem in law enforcement. Officers who are so scared to use deadly force when it is reasonable. A suspect attacking them with a crowbar, and his answer is steroids? Ridiculous. Anyone attacks me with any weapon that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death will be shot. That's a decision that all officers should have already made...But it wasn't until an enraged criminal swung a crowbar at his fellow officer that he knew he had to buff up on the job.
"How do I deal with people who are in better shape than me and want to kill me?" said Sanders, who worked as a street cop in Los Angeles in the 1970s and saw steroid use soar in the 1990s.
- Kamakazie Sith
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7555
- Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
- Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Yes, there is. Negative publicity is not a reason to risk your life. Anyway, police can use deadly force when they are threatened with deadly force. If you consider that an extreme last resort then that's fine. I consider it a logical response. Anyway, cops try to improve their skills and fitness because that does have a place and is more likely that they will be in a use of force situation that does not rise to the level of deadly force.hunter5 wrote: The problem is there is a lot of negative publicity for police using lethal force. Not to mention police are trained to only kill as an extreme last resort unless the suspect has a firearm. Plus all police shootings from my understanding have a long investigation process where the officer in question is removed from duty for a time. That is why cops try to find ways to increase their take-down abilities with grappling martial arts or in this case steroids.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
- Gil Hamilton
- Tipsy Space Birdie
- Posts: 12962
- Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
- Contact:
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
These guys seem to be roiding up for situations with intracably pissed dustheads, who may or may not require you to shoot them to calm them down. I don't know how police in general, your police department, and/or you in particular approach this, but that may not be a deadly situation. More muscle mass may not help you use a gun at a certain point, but I think these guys are looking more to use batons on these guys rather than killing them.Kamakazie Sith wrote:Yes, there is. Negative publicity is not a reason to risk your life. Anyway, police can use deadly force when they are threatened with deadly force. If you consider that an extreme last resort then that's fine. I consider it a logical response. Anyway, cops try to improve their skills and fitness because that does have a place and is more likely that they will be in a use of force situation that does not rise to the level of deadly force.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
- Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 28846
- Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Back when I worked in the drug rehab industry someone once asked me "why do people use steroids?" The answer is simple: because they work. They really do make you stronger.
Unfortunately, they also really do have side effects.
Some cops, as they age, find other ways to handle these situations at least some of the time. (Female cops, being always at a strength disadvantage, have to do this from day one). Some cops move on to other forms of law enforcement if they feel their physical prowess waning. Some work out at the gym even harder. Some stop giving a damn and go to flab.
And some use steroids to "cheat".
I think the officers using these drugs have some valid concerns, but I don't think they are making the best choices. Being a police officer is a highly stressful, and times highly dangerous job that often does not get the respect deserved.
I think finding alternatives to the use of deadly force is a worthy goal, but sometimes it's not an attainable one. Pumping police full of steroids for a short-term gain in strength with a result of possible over-aggression and life-threatening complications down the line is not a good trade off. I also think the trend to cops working solo instead of in pairs (to save money, I presume) is not a good thing either, as it makes it more likely the lone cop will resort to such measures as steroids though it is by no means the only factor at work. Still, having someone right there to watch your back and back you up will make for less incentive to pump yourself up with chemicals.
Unfortunately, they also really do have side effects.
Some cops, as they age, find other ways to handle these situations at least some of the time. (Female cops, being always at a strength disadvantage, have to do this from day one). Some cops move on to other forms of law enforcement if they feel their physical prowess waning. Some work out at the gym even harder. Some stop giving a damn and go to flab.
And some use steroids to "cheat".
I think the officers using these drugs have some valid concerns, but I don't think they are making the best choices. Being a police officer is a highly stressful, and times highly dangerous job that often does not get the respect deserved.
I think finding alternatives to the use of deadly force is a worthy goal, but sometimes it's not an attainable one. Pumping police full of steroids for a short-term gain in strength with a result of possible over-aggression and life-threatening complications down the line is not a good trade off. I also think the trend to cops working solo instead of in pairs (to save money, I presume) is not a good thing either, as it makes it more likely the lone cop will resort to such measures as steroids though it is by no means the only factor at work. Still, having someone right there to watch your back and back you up will make for less incentive to pump yourself up with chemicals.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
- Kamakazie Sith
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7555
- Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
- Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Just to avoid confusion. I'm completely against roid use. However, I was just pointing out that a problem exists in current law enforcement where officers were justified in using deadly force to stop a serious threat against them or others and did not. I think this is an example of that because you shouldn't be thinking "Oh, I need to be stronger to take down a guy with a crowbar". That's retarded.Gil Hamilton wrote:These guys seem to be roiding up for situations with intracably pissed dustheads, who may or may not require you to shoot them to calm them down. I don't know how police in general, your police department, and/or you in particular approach this, but that may not be a deadly situation. More muscle mass may not help you use a gun at a certain point, but I think these guys are looking more to use batons on these guys rather than killing them.Kamakazie Sith wrote:Yes, there is. Negative publicity is not a reason to risk your life. Anyway, police can use deadly force when they are threatened with deadly force. If you consider that an extreme last resort then that's fine. I consider it a logical response. Anyway, cops try to improve their skills and fitness because that does have a place and is more likely that they will be in a use of force situation that does not rise to the level of deadly force.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
- Losonti Tokash
- Sith Devotee
- Posts: 2916
- Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Holy shit, there is no way in hell that trying to wrestle down someone on PCP is a good idea. It turns them into some kind of invincible incarnation of rage, focused solely on ripping out your skull and beating you to death with it. There have been instances where someone on PCP with two broken legs was fired on by police and only stopped advancing once the brain had been deprived of oxygen by the destruction of the heart.
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Honestly, given the effects of steroids on mood and the "macho" personality traits, it's just as likely most of these guys are taking it for the psychological effects. It's been described to me as "injecting confidence", which has the obvious dark-side of arrogance and aggression. Feeling more confident and assertive may be a bigger boost than the physical effects in that line of work.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Isn't it possible that they didn't have time/reaction/bad first judgement to draw their guns? I can imagine not wanting to try and shoot the guy thats wrestling with with your partner.Kamakazie Sith wrote:Just to avoid confusion. I'm completely against roid use. However, I was just pointing out that a problem exists in current law enforcement where officers were justified in using deadly force to stop a serious threat against them or others and did not. I think this is an example of that because you shouldn't be thinking "Oh, I need to be stronger to take down a guy with a crowbar". That's retarded.Gil Hamilton wrote:These guys seem to be roiding up for situations with intracably pissed dustheads, who may or may not require you to shoot them to calm them down. I don't know how police in general, your police department, and/or you in particular approach this, but that may not be a deadly situation. More muscle mass may not help you use a gun at a certain point, but I think these guys are looking more to use batons on these guys rather than killing them.Kamakazie Sith wrote:Yes, there is. Negative publicity is not a reason to risk your life. Anyway, police can use deadly force when they are threatened with deadly force. If you consider that an extreme last resort then that's fine. I consider it a logical response. Anyway, cops try to improve their skills and fitness because that does have a place and is more likely that they will be in a use of force situation that does not rise to the level of deadly force.
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
We had a case like this on the US Customs side of our airport. They were attempting to detain a man who was causing a disturbance and trying to push through security (they didn't know he was high on PCP at the time, but found out later), pepper spray didn't work and when the agents tried to arrest him he ripped the handcuffs right out of the agent's hands and started strangling him with the cuffs. The other agent took several full swings with his baton at the usual target areas with no effect, and ended up clubbing him in the head to subdue him and save his partner. If this incident had gone a little differently it could very easily have ended up with a justified shooting.Kamakazie Sith wrote:I've heard rumors of people high on PCP resisting taser, but if you exhausted all your non/less lethal weapons and you're still not gaining any ground. Deadly force should be an option that is considered as the situation develops. Being caught in a headlock by an enraged PCP intoxicated youth would have been one of those moments where starting to think of the line in the sand. I'm not saying automatically shoot someone that has you or your partner in a headlock, but if your partner starts to black out...then it's time.
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
- Kamakazie Sith
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7555
- Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
- Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Sure, all that is possible. However, if your partner is in a fight for his/her life and they're wrestling there is nothing wrong with walking up and contact shooting the bad guy in the head.lance wrote: Isn't it possible that they didn't have time/reaction/bad first judgement to draw their guns? I can imagine not wanting to try and shoot the guy thats wrestling with with your partner.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
I'm regularly around gym rats who use steroids. I can see why policemen are turning to them: they work in making you stronger and faster. They really, really do, to the point where nothing else really compares. They give you a little more confidence and drastically increase your sexual appetite. Some people do get really pissed off at things when using, but they are also the type of people who are naturally easily pissed off and more likely to get physically violent anyway.
If policemen are putting their bodies on the line then it's only natural that they want the best protection, and steroids will make them stronger and faster and bigger too.
If policemen are putting their bodies on the line then it's only natural that they want the best protection, and steroids will make them stronger and faster and bigger too.
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Or pistol whipping him in the temple or back of the head a few times first. If that's not enough to make the suspect let go, then there is no way a reasonable jury would fault you for firing at that point.Kamakazie Sith wrote:Sure, all that is possible. However, if your partner is in a fight for his/her life and they're wrestling there is nothing wrong with walking up and contact shooting the bad guy in the head.lance wrote: Isn't it possible that they didn't have time/reaction/bad first judgement to draw their guns? I can imagine not wanting to try and shoot the guy thats wrestling with with your partner.
I've been asked why I still follow a few of the people I know on Facebook with 'interesting political habits and view points'.
It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
It's so when they comment on or approve of something, I know what pages to block/what not to vote for.
- Kamakazie Sith
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7555
- Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
- Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Being a cop is having a personality that draws a fine line between being tolerant for some things such as people who are verbally upset, and absolutely intolerant against other things such as people who don't comply with lawful orders. Taking steroids fucks that up by screwing up your balance and even in situations where force is justified can result in you using more force than necessary. Steroids might make people stronger, larger, and faster, but it also has absolutely no place in law enforcement.Shaun wrote:I'm regularly around gym rats who use steroids. I can see why policemen are turning to them: they work in making you stronger and faster. They really, really do, to the point where nothing else really compares. They give you a little more confidence and drastically increase your sexual appetite. Some people do get really pissed off at things when using, but they are also the type of people who are naturally easily pissed off and more likely to get physically violent anyway.
If policemen are putting their bodies on the line then it's only natural that they want the best protection, and steroids will make them stronger and faster and bigger too.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
- Kamakazie Sith
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 7555
- Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
- Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Like I said before you'd use deadly force when you've exhausted your non-lethal options. However, thanks for reiterating that.Solauren wrote:
Or pistol whipping him in the temple or back of the head a few times first. If that's not enough to make the suspect let go, then there is no way a reasonable jury would fault you for firing at that point.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
*shrug*Shaun wrote:I'm regularly around gym rats who use steroids. I can see why policemen are turning to them: they work in making you stronger and faster. They really, really do, to the point where nothing else really compares. They give you a little more confidence and drastically increase your sexual appetite. Some people do get really pissed off at things when using, but they are also the type of people who are naturally easily pissed off and more likely to get physically violent anyway.
It's their bodies that steroid users are putting on the line, like smokers. They'll only have themselves to blame.
I've heard the opposite, that anabolic steroids reduce your libido.They give you a little more confidence and drastically increase your sexual appetite.
- Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 28846
- Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
The libido effects are somewhat dosage dependent. Initially they'll raise libido, then when testicular atrophy sets in libido drops. So it depends on how much they're taking.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
Your source for that is?Kamakazie Sith wrote:Being a cop is having a personality that draws a fine line between being tolerant for some things such as people who are verbally upset, and absolutely intolerant against other things such as people who don't comply with lawful orders. Taking steroids fucks that up by screwing up your balance and even in situations where force is justified can result in you using more force than necessary. Steroids might make people stronger, larger, and faster, but it also has absolutely no place in law enforcement.
Re: Steroid Use increasing among police.
The libido changes are more dependent on the compound. Commonly available anabolic steroids fall into two rough categories. Anything with a chemical structure similar to testosterone will tend to have similar effects, both directly and through conversion to estrogen, which includes increased sex drive (of course, when the drug is ceased, you no longer have that). A nortestosterone or DHT derivative, which are among the drugs popular in the bodybuilding and gym-rat crowds, may do the opposite.
All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...