Another lord of the rings question(s)
Moderator: Edi
Another lord of the rings question(s)
I was wondering about why didn't the dwarves and elves who got rings become ring wraiths too? And why was the person in the beggining able to kill Sauron so easily, someone said because he was a King and had a King's sword, but royalty is just a political position, it doesn't hold any magical power.
Dwarves were made to be resistant to magic and domination. As for elves, they were basically immortal (though still killable) and had greater innate power than humans.
Sauron was defeated so 'easily' at that point because he was wholly reliant on the Ring for his power. When he lost his connection to it, he was defeated.
Sauron was defeated so 'easily' at that point because he was wholly reliant on the Ring for his power. When he lost his connection to it, he was defeated.
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The book never really gets into the Dwarven rings. Many of them, if not all were lost or destroyed. I assume that they can be destroid more easily than the One ring since they do not contain any of Saurons will. Plus it is said that the dwarven rings simply granted the bearer immense desire for gold and wealth. The mortal rings granted the bearer power to rule, which was why they were given to kings. The eleven rings are iffy because although they aren't totally under Saurons controll, the bearers of those rings don't exactly want him to know where they are. The elven rings granted the were based on the elements of fire, air, and water, but with symbolic meaning, i.e. the ability to motivate the fire of ones spirit. Symbolisim is big in LOTR. It's the whole idea od Sauron having to eventually face Aragorn, Isildor's(the guy who hacked the ring away) decendent, that makes it signifigant. Not the act itself. Aragorn has to make up for the mistake Isildor made by not destroying the ring.
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The bearers of the 3 elven rings realised what he was doing and removed their rings and hid them.
The dwarves confoozled Sauron, he couldn't dominate them with the Rings, he could only inflame their greed and jealousy (and send them digging into dark corners where they shouldn't, like where a certain Balorg lived)
The dwarves confoozled Sauron, he couldn't dominate them with the Rings, he could only inflame their greed and jealousy (and send them digging into dark corners where they shouldn't, like where a certain Balorg lived)
Dwarves were extremely resistant to such things. They didn't endure domination by others, they didn't "fade" into wraiths. This is due to how they came into being (quite different then all the other races in middle earth).
The elves are a different matter. The "3 elven rings" were the only ones never touched by Sauron. Additionaly, elves are already imortal, and those of the Noldar race (and perhaps the others elven races as well) exist in both the "real" worl and the shadow world of the Ringwraiths at the same time (mentioned in the novel).
Sauron was able to be defeated in the manor he was at the begaining due to a few things :
1 - the ring. he put the majority of his power into it. Without it, he was vastly reduceed. The severing of it from him was enough of a shock to cause him to loose his physical form.
2 - his opponents. The "men" involved were the Numenorians, decendents of both men and elves (their ultimate ancestor is Elros, Elrond's brother. Both were half human, half Noldar elf). At the hight of their power (long before the time of the battle shown), they single handedly overwelmed the forces of Mordor to the point that the only way Sauron could see to defeat them was to surrender to them and work away at them from the inside so to speak.
3 - the sword used. Narsil (the sword used to cut the ring) was forged by one of the greatest dwarven smiths of the 1st age. Only a few of the master level elven smiths surpassed his skill, and almost all of their work died with them during the 1st age.
The elves are a different matter. The "3 elven rings" were the only ones never touched by Sauron. Additionaly, elves are already imortal, and those of the Noldar race (and perhaps the others elven races as well) exist in both the "real" worl and the shadow world of the Ringwraiths at the same time (mentioned in the novel).
Sauron was able to be defeated in the manor he was at the begaining due to a few things :
1 - the ring. he put the majority of his power into it. Without it, he was vastly reduceed. The severing of it from him was enough of a shock to cause him to loose his physical form.
2 - his opponents. The "men" involved were the Numenorians, decendents of both men and elves (their ultimate ancestor is Elros, Elrond's brother. Both were half human, half Noldar elf). At the hight of their power (long before the time of the battle shown), they single handedly overwelmed the forces of Mordor to the point that the only way Sauron could see to defeat them was to surrender to them and work away at them from the inside so to speak.
3 - the sword used. Narsil (the sword used to cut the ring) was forged by one of the greatest dwarven smiths of the 1st age. Only a few of the master level elven smiths surpassed his skill, and almost all of their work died with them during the 1st age.
There is no problem to dificult for a signifigantly large enough quantity of C-4 to handle.
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Re: Another lord of the rings question(s)
Men were too easily controlled, desired power. That was their undoing, but the Dwarves and Elves were too strong to control, I believe.Shrykull wrote:I was wondering about why didn't the dwarves and elves who got rings become ring wraiths too?
This is Tolkien we're talking about here. Isildur was the heir of Elendil of Numenor. As for killing Sauron, the blades of Westernesse were forged to fight evil, and Isildur smashed the hand with the ring as well, which contained Sauron's power.Shrykull wrote:And why was the person in the beggining able to kill Sauron so easily, someone said because he was a King and had a King's sword, but royalty is just a political position, it doesn't hold any magical power.
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When he was making it, Sauron bound his life to the ring. That is how he survived the Second Age, even after his physical form was destroyed. When the Ring was destroyed, however, Sauron was killed permanently, as the Ring had contained his spirit. He had put too much of himself into it to be whole, again, without it.
The reason that the Men were corrupted, while the Elves were not is that the Elves themselves made the lesser rings. The Nine, Seven, and Three did not begin as evil. Sauron took the Nine during war, and corrupted them with the Great Ring. Men were also particularly easy to corrupt, unlike Hobbits and Dwarves and Elves. It is unclear whether or not the Seven Dwarven rings were evil at any time, though my guess is that the ones that remain would have been.
The Elves also escaped corruption because they realized Sauron's trickery as soon as he put on the One. They removed their rings. This is when the Lesser Rings were separated. Celimbror gave the Three out to Galadriel and two to Gil-Galad. He hid the others, but Sauron captured him. Sauron then tortured Celimbror to reveal the location of the Lesser Rings. Celimbror gave him the location of the Nine, and Sauron took those. He then gave Sauron the location of the Seven, for he had crafted those with the aid of Sauron and did not care for them as much as he cared for the Three (which he had made himself).
The question came up of what happened to the Dwarven Rings. Four of them were destroyed by dragons, and the other three were retained by Sauron (apparently he never gave them out to his minions).
Thus, there are a few possible reasons why the Elves and Dwarves did not appear to be corrupted by their rings.
1. The Dwarves were not corrupted because Celimbror realized Sauron's treachery in time, and the Dwarves were not exposed for long enough to be corrupted, as the Men were.
2. The Dwarves were corrupted, but they were all killed and their rings destroyed or taken by Sauron but never distributed again.
3. The Elves were not corrupted because they are naturally stronger than men in their ability to resist temptation (this could also be for the dwarves, but appears to be untrue, at least to the extent of the elves).
4. The Elves and dwarves were not corrupted because they only used the rings for good and to help others. Again this seems unlikely, but possible given the reason why Sam was not corrupted by the One Ring when he put it on in Mordor.
5. The Elves were not corrupted because their rings had been made by Celimbror alone (much more likely--in fact, the one I think I like the best), combine with 1 or 2 for a complete explanation.
6. The Elves were not corrupted because Galadriel, Gil-Galad, Elrond, Gandalf, and Cirdan were tough enough to resist the rings. This would also make sense because these were the wisest of creatures on Middle Earth.
7. The Elves were not corrupted because the Wise did not use them. This is not likely at all, because we know that Galdriel was using her ring, Nenya, to help maintain Lothlorien.
The reason that the Men were corrupted, while the Elves were not is that the Elves themselves made the lesser rings. The Nine, Seven, and Three did not begin as evil. Sauron took the Nine during war, and corrupted them with the Great Ring. Men were also particularly easy to corrupt, unlike Hobbits and Dwarves and Elves. It is unclear whether or not the Seven Dwarven rings were evil at any time, though my guess is that the ones that remain would have been.
The Elves also escaped corruption because they realized Sauron's trickery as soon as he put on the One. They removed their rings. This is when the Lesser Rings were separated. Celimbror gave the Three out to Galadriel and two to Gil-Galad. He hid the others, but Sauron captured him. Sauron then tortured Celimbror to reveal the location of the Lesser Rings. Celimbror gave him the location of the Nine, and Sauron took those. He then gave Sauron the location of the Seven, for he had crafted those with the aid of Sauron and did not care for them as much as he cared for the Three (which he had made himself).
The question came up of what happened to the Dwarven Rings. Four of them were destroyed by dragons, and the other three were retained by Sauron (apparently he never gave them out to his minions).
Thus, there are a few possible reasons why the Elves and Dwarves did not appear to be corrupted by their rings.
1. The Dwarves were not corrupted because Celimbror realized Sauron's treachery in time, and the Dwarves were not exposed for long enough to be corrupted, as the Men were.
2. The Dwarves were corrupted, but they were all killed and their rings destroyed or taken by Sauron but never distributed again.
3. The Elves were not corrupted because they are naturally stronger than men in their ability to resist temptation (this could also be for the dwarves, but appears to be untrue, at least to the extent of the elves).
4. The Elves and dwarves were not corrupted because they only used the rings for good and to help others. Again this seems unlikely, but possible given the reason why Sam was not corrupted by the One Ring when he put it on in Mordor.
5. The Elves were not corrupted because their rings had been made by Celimbror alone (much more likely--in fact, the one I think I like the best), combine with 1 or 2 for a complete explanation.
6. The Elves were not corrupted because Galadriel, Gil-Galad, Elrond, Gandalf, and Cirdan were tough enough to resist the rings. This would also make sense because these were the wisest of creatures on Middle Earth.
7. The Elves were not corrupted because the Wise did not use them. This is not likely at all, because we know that Galdriel was using her ring, Nenya, to help maintain Lothlorien.
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