White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by Thanas »

Ghetto edit:

Six reason why Gibbs' outburst doesn't make much sense.

Here are six reasons Gibbs' outburst doesn't make much sense, not counting the fact that it will generate hundreds of articles like this.

1. The left was right. The president is in trouble because his historic reforms were too timid, not too bold. The recovery plan wasn't big enough. The banks were rescued, but not reformed and no heads rolled. These two alone have been lethal to the economy, to working people, and not surprisingly to the president's popularity and Democratic prospects.

2. The left was wrong -- but not because it was too independent, but because it was too cooperative. Instead of building an independent populist movement with a moral voice driving opinion outside the beltway, much energy and resources were devoted to the legislative sausage making process, largely in support of the president's agenda. This White House would have been far better served with an independent movement, such as those FDR and LBJ suffered and benefited from. One result is that the ersatz tea party formations captured the voice of populist outrage.

3. The left isn't the problem -- the corporate wing of the party is. The left hasn't gotten in the president's way, for better or worse. It's the corporate right of the party -- the Blue Dogs and New Democrats -- that have stood in the way. They joined with Republicans to weaken the recovery plan. Max Baucus did the dance with so-called moderate Republicans like Charles "death panel" Grassley that ate up the first year in useless negotiations. Blue dogs largely sabotaged energy legislation. New Democrats weakened already inadequate financial reforms. And the deficit hawks now sabotage needed jobs programs in an economy in big trouble. The problem with the left is that it has been too weak, not too strong.

4. The left hasn't been a rebel; it's been too good a soldier. Amazing that the White House would be upset at carping from the beltway left which has embarrassed itself by its willingness to absorb insult and salute. Women rallied to support a health care bill that weakened choice. Progressives supported the bill despite the president's unwillingness to fight for a public option, the taxes on good (read union) health care plans, and the grotesque deal with drug companies to sustain the ban on Medicare getting bulk price discounts. Environmentalists went so far as to embrace off-shore drilling in the failed effort to get the energy bill. Black leaders like Al Sharpton argued against any targeted economic programs, even as the African American community was suffering depression levels of misery in the economic collapse. The anti-war movement gave the president a pass on Afghanistan. Gays have been remarkably patient at delay in repealing the indefensible don't ask, don't tell policy. Progressives pushed financial reform hard, even after the Treasury Department helped defeat amendments to break up the big banks and more.

5. The White House has been hurt less because the left is critical, but because the White House isn't listening. The left correctly understood the White House faced a pitched battle over the direction of the country, not a post-racial, pragmatic, bipartisan era of good feelings. The president's search for bipartisan cooperation compromised his greatest asset -- the bully pulpit. From day one, he should have been teaching Americans, over and over, how failed conservative ideas and policies had driven us over the cliff, just as FDR and Ronald Reagan had done from opposite ends of the political spectrum. The failure to do that has allowed conservatives to revive without changing a whit. Now, three months from the election, the president says he's ready to draw the contrast and start pushing, far too late.

6. Reality counts. Gibbs accuses the professional left of being congenitally dissatisfied. I should hope so. But the White House problem isn't temperament, it is reality.

This White House has passed historic initiatives -- the biggest recovery act ever, comprehensive health care reform, financial reform, equal pay reforms, the largest increase in poverty spending since the 60s, the greatest expansion of service programs since the Great Depression, and much more. The White House understandably wants credit. It had a check list; it made the compromises it needed to make; it moved the ball forward. Why the carping?

But reality counts. We're suffering mass unemployment. One in four homes with mortgages is underwater. Bankers were rescued, the debt increased, and politicians in both parties are starting to talk about cutting Social Security benefits. The war in Afghanistan is a mess. We can argue about whether the president fought hard enough, or compromised too soon -- but the reality is that the reforms, as bold as they were, are not sufficient to deal with the mess we are in.

Here the White House has been consistently off key. Last week at the AFLCIO executive council, the president delivered a powerful and rousing address that made his pitch for the election. At the core was a metaphor:

This election is a choice. You've got these folks who drove America's economy into a ditch, and for the last 20 months, we put on our boots and we got into the mud and we've been shoving that car out of the ditch inch by inch, and they've been standing on the side the whole time watching, telling us, no, you're not pushing hard enough, you're not doing it the right way -- not lifting a finger to help. And now we've finally got that car up on the blacktop there, about to drive, and they say they want the keys back. (Laughter.) Well, you can't have the keys, because you don't know how to drive. (Laughter.) You don't know how to drive. (Laughter.) You're not going to get the keys back. (Applause.) You're not going to get them back.

This is terrific stuff -- only the car is not "out of the ditch and on the road." We're still pushing our way out of the ditch. We've got a long way to go. We'll need new efforts to get there. There's a huge difference in presenting reforms as solutions, the right answers to hard problems -- and presenting reforms as steps in the right direction, with a long way to go. "Stay the course" limited Republican losses in the off year election of 1982 despite the deep recession, but Reagan had blamed liberalism from day one for what wrong, pounded on it, and kept selling his program not as a solution, but as building a new direction. Obama does this well when he does it, but not enough and not consistently

Finally, the good book says as ye sow so shall ye reap. We've got a huge enthusiasm gap going into this election. The rising Obama electorate -- young, single women, minorities -- is discouraged, disengaged and staying home in large numbers. The organized base of the party -- particularly unions -- is getting big-time pushback from discouraged members. Across the board, the "professional left" reports that resources are down for voter registration and mobilization. Get out of the beltway, Mr. Gibbs. Talk to some folks. You'll find the beltway carpers are the least of your problems.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by SirNitram »

Newsflash: Modern Democrats don't like their base. FIlm at 11. And yet, and yet, the base is so wrapped up about what they don't get, they refuse to notice what they do. Lily Ledbetter, improvement of the VA to take care of wounded vets(Including, at last, PTSD), actually FUND the Violence Against WOmen act, the list goes on! For not having yet gotten to the 2nd year of his term, that's alot. But instead, the focus is on where the imperfection are.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by Samuel »

SirNitram wrote:Newsflash: Modern Democrats don't like their base. FIlm at 11. And yet, and yet, the base is so wrapped up about what they don't get, they refuse to notice what they do. Lily Ledbetter, improvement of the VA to take care of wounded vets(Including, at last, PTSD), actually FUND the Violence Against WOmen act, the list goes on! For not having yet gotten to the 2nd year of his term, that's alot. But instead, the focus is on where the imperfection are.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Also, these are things we expect from a non-cartoonishly evil president.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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SirNitram wrote:Newsflash: Modern Democrats don't like their base. FIlm at 11. And yet, and yet, the base is so wrapped up about what they don't get, they refuse to notice what they do. Lily Ledbetter, improvement of the VA to take care of wounded vets(Including, at last, PTSD), actually FUND the Violence Against WOmen act, the list goes on! For not having yet gotten to the 2nd year of his term, that's alot. But instead, the focus is on where the imperfection are.
Translation: Look at his mighty accomplishments when he faces no serious opposition with strong bipartisan support. Look on his works, ye Mighty, and despair!
This is not a little bit of imperfection Nitram. As quoted elsewhere in this thread, he has a worse record on rights of detainees than Bush did for the simple act of embracing everything except torture and extending it. And Lily Ledbetter have five republican votes in the senate. Yes he improved the VA but the bill was already well underway (And had the speaker wanted to they could have sent it to Bush rather than Obama) to do just that and Bush had agreed to sign it. The good you tout are not exactly storming the castle wins for him.

Can you point to one accomplishment of his where he out and out won despite Republican opposition? And don't say Heath-care because as we covered the Heathcare Bill was a redux of the 94-96 Republican plan but with democratic additions. He does not get credit for passing Republican plans. McCain could have done that just as easily.

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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Most restrictive financial reform since the Great Depression. Hell, the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act. You know, the one compared to Animal Farm, 1984, and was defeated 4 times before?
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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SirNitram wrote:Most restrictive financial reform since the Great Depression.
I'm not sure if winning by default counts since this is the only financial reform I know of since the GD which actually added any regulations. It added some regulations, but it doesn't even take us back to 2004 when leverage limits for banks were removed and Gramm-Leach-Bliley which killed the last of Glass-Steagall was a good 5 years before that.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by SirNitram »

aerius wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Most restrictive financial reform since the Great Depression.
I'm not sure if winning by default counts since this is the only financial reform I know of since the GD which actually added any regulations. It added some regulations, but it doesn't even take us back to 2004 when leverage limits for banks were removed and Gramm-Leach-Bliley which killed the last of Glass-Steagall was a good 5 years before that.
No, it doesn't. And getting that back is going to be important. However, take your victories where you can when a guy who runs as a centrist, reaching across the aisle, promising to try and change the partisan nature of DC.. Manages to force Goldman to spin off a quarter(Maybe more?) of it's revenue just by banning derivatives. This says alot about how bad Wall St. got.. And clawing back a bit is important.(The article on this is now behind a paywall, but Naked Capitalism has excerpts up and always an interesting view: Link

Honestly, I do think too much is expected so fast. I'll consider Obama's first two years damn good if he acheives as much as Clinton in the first two of his term(Beyond that, I dunno.).

But primarily.. Yea, the Democrats have an antagonist relationship with the Left. I don't think we can get by that. Nor do I think it will change. You just have to try and get into Dem primaries and then major elections, to try and dislodge as many centrist and conservative Dems as possible while hanging onto the liberals.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Yeah...liberals who got a real motive to hang on to a guy who so far has done nothing on the front of civil liberties, who has expanded the military etc.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Thanas wrote:Yeah...liberals who got a real motive to hang on to a guy who so far has done nothing on the front of civil liberties, who has expanded the military etc.
You want to be like the GOP and hold the party's balls in your hand? You need more than bitching, you need making the entire party infiltrated by your fellow idealogical allies, you need vocal groups allied with you, and you need to only punish those responsible.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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SirNitram wrote:You want to be like the GOP and hold the party's balls in your hand?
If that's the only thing we have left, then why not? I'll accept Republicans political methods if it means the Democrats won't be achieving Republican ideological ends by degrees anyway. Of course, there's no point debating that because it won't happen. It just seems more and more every day that any meaningful reform is impossible.

Then again, the entire "liberal idealistic dreamers don't understand how lucky they are to get anything" argument is a red herring anyway, since a huge chunk of anger at the administration is connected to Obamas terrible record on civil liberties and executive privilege, things that he can fix by fiat without a political fight and chooses not to.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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There is zero prospect for strong, positive legislation as long as the 60th most liberal Senator is responsible for the content of bills. It is less the content of any particular Democratic legislative achievement in the 111th Congress that bugs me, it's thinking that the powers that be seem to be suspiciously content with this setup as a scapegoat for liberal angst.

If they go 50, and go democratic, suddenly a climate change bill with carbon tax passes, a public option passes, a larger stimulus passes, stronger financial regulation passes....Or we suddenly find out that our Congresscritters and President aren't quite as serious as they've been saying on these issue.

But on topic- as Press Secretary, isn't it Robert Gibbs' job to be Chief Propagandist? Isn't he basically calling himself out for being too incompetent to persuade even his ostensible base?
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Vaporous wrote: If that's the only thing we have left, then why not? I'll accept Republicans political methods if it means the Democrats won't be achieving Republican ideological ends by degrees anyway. Of course, there's no point debating that because it won't happen. It just seems more and more every day that any meaningful reform is impossible.
Half the problem of the GOP is there methods, not their goals. They`ve reached the point where they are now seriously entertaining death threats (and voter fraud, and secession, and lying out their ass on every single issue) as acceptable tactics.

If that`s the sort of shit you want to emulate, no thanks. The ends don`t justify the means.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by Coyote »

Obama did campaign as a moderate centrist, do folks remember that? Look back at the meat & bone remarks he said, sweeping away the gravy of the fancy flourishing language, and he was never a "progressive leftist". Some people wanted a radical leftist after W and projected their desires onto Obama without proof that he'd conform to their views.

Few things crack me up more than people griping about Obama expanding the war in Afghanistan-- that is exactly what he said he'd do. He campaigned on precisely that! It's one of the few times a candidate actually kept a campaign promise. The people saying "we should be out of the war, oh why is Obama abandoning progressive principles?" had only deluded themselves.

The USA wouldn't recognize a true Progressive if one walked up and punched them.

I voted for Obama because, even though he's not "progressive", he's still better than most Republicans. And I'll probably vote for him again because of that, too.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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SirNitram wrote:
Thanas wrote:Yeah...liberals who got a real motive to hang on to a guy who so far has done nothing on the front of civil liberties, who has expanded the military etc.
You want to be like the GOP and hold the party's balls in your hand? You need more than bitching, you need making the entire party infiltrated by your fellow idealogical allies, you need vocal groups allied with you, and you need to only punish those responsible.
Strawman argument, Nitram. I was outlining reasons why Obama will lose support among grassroots and liberals, not saying the party needs to be changed.

Obama's public perception has pretty much bombed, not only in the US but in Europe too. The papers over here have been full of blistering criticism at his indecisiveness and unwillingness to committ to a political fight.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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The Romulan Republic wrote:They`ve reached the point where they are now seriously entertaining death threats (and voter fraud, and secession, and lying out their ass on every single issue) as acceptable tactics.
Granted. I went too far.

It would still be nice to have a party whose unity, focus and drive actually accomplished something that wasn't completely horrible.
The ends don`t justify the means
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That is an argument for a different thread, I think.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Thanas wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Thanas wrote:Yeah...liberals who got a real motive to hang on to a guy who so far has done nothing on the front of civil liberties, who has expanded the military etc.
You want to be like the GOP and hold the party's balls in your hand? You need more than bitching, you need making the entire party infiltrated by your fellow idealogical allies, you need vocal groups allied with you, and you need to only punish those responsible.
Strawman argument, Nitram. I was outlining reasons why Obama will lose support among grassroots and liberals, not saying the party needs to be changed.

Obama's public perception has pretty much bombed, not only in the US but in Europe too. The papers over here have been full of blistering criticism at his indecisiveness and unwillingness to committ to a political fight.
I don't think you get it. The problem with Obama is he does not do as his party base wants, in these criticisms. If that is to happen, you need to control enough of the party and it's funding apparatus to be a threat to the continuing fortunes of those in charge. I don't advocate the GOP's measures, but the basic framework is important. When you have those, you can force centrists like Obama to dance to the appropriate tune. I don't excuse his lack on human rights, but to change it requires more than annoyance and sitting at home.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Do you have any suggestions other than throwing him to the wolves by sitting at home then, Nitram?

Because that's about the only thing left for a given individual unless you want to become a full time political activist and organizer and are capable of funding that yourself. All the communication from the Obama administration to the progressive/liberal base has been that they take the support for granted.

Gibbs even said so, that he expects the disaffected base to show up at the polls regardless. The thinking behind that is that the base need to be good little soldiers and obey orders no matter how much they get let down, just to keep the Republicans out of power.

Part of the problem is that the more progressive base has in this respect rolled over and signaled that they will support Obama anyway against Republicans, no matter what. Talk about giving away all of your chips even before the bargaining begins.

The Democrats are probably not going to learn that they need to stand for something and fight for what they believe in until they get trounced a few times and your country goes entirely to shit for everyone under the corporatist mismanagement.

Americans have proven over and over that it doesn't matter if someone is absolutely, spectacularly wrong, they will still get support as long as they make a clear stand if their opponent doesn't. Being perceived as wishy-washy and weak is a death knell.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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SirNitram wrote:I don't think you get it. The problem with Obama is he does not do as his party base wants, in these criticisms.
Oh, I get it all right. However, you seem to mistake perfectly logical demands made by experts (see: Public option) as something the base, and only the base, wants. Truth of the matter is, the White House is perfectly willing to bargain away things they do not need to bargain away in order to appease the right.

You do not need a massive change of the party to change that, you need a president that is committed to a fight and can pull things of. Obama however seems to be so centered on compromise and afraid of losing a fight that he is unwilling to even committ to one.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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Welcome to the world: Experts who aren't lying are now part of the 'left' and the Dem base, because the GOP got that out of touch. And you need a big change in the party, because a huge number of these compromises are beyond the POTUS: They're in the advisors, the House, the Senate, and fundamentally in the organizations that help get them into power. Throw in a media that doesn't care about facts but in the 'horse raise' and petty gossip, and it's a recipe for failure.

None of what I suggest requires becoming a full-time activist. Vote or occasionally volunteer for a progressive candidate. Throw five bucks towards a progressive group. This, however, requires more oomph than complaining.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

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SirNitram wrote:Welcome to the world: Experts who aren't lying are now part of the 'left' and the Dem base, because the GOP got that out of touch. And you need a big change in the party, because a huge number of these compromises are beyond the POTUS: They're in the advisors, the House, the Senate, and fundamentally in the organizations that help get them into power. Throw in a media that doesn't care about facts but in the 'horse raise' and petty gossip, and it's a recipe for failure.

None of what I suggest requires becoming a full-time activist. Vote or occasionally volunteer for a progressive candidate. Throw five bucks towards a progressive group. This, however, requires more oomph than complaining.
You are painting a false dilemma here. Nowhere does stopping complaining help progressive change, in fact it does the exact opposite. So by all means, people should complain more because otherwise the problems will not get visible.

So what is your point? "Stop complaining and do something"? If so, I should tell you that as a non-american I am barred from either donating to a US politician or helping him with his campaign. So that is about it.

I also see that you have not addressed one of my main points: That Obama is neither working for, nor willing to change anything in his party. So why should people support him? Sure you say the alternative is worse...but so far Obama has not shown himself as any better on the civil liberties or foreign policy front, so as somebody who cares about that why should he be the better alternative in those areas when he enacts programs that go far beyond what Bush ever did?
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by SirNitram »

Hey, you see someone who offers better, push for 'em. I'm not a citizen either, and I have an effect. As for Obama changing his party.. Maybe not. ANd you're right. I am wrong to simply dismiss complaining. Complaining to the right people should be done. So for that, I fully concede.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by Eframepilot »

Gibbs was talking about the "professional left", i.e. the cable commentators like Olbermann and Maddow who are bashing Obama practically every night for not being liberal enough. It was a stupid thing to do and it did imply similar hatred for the entire left, but it was brought on by watching too much depressing cable "news".

David Frum put it well: the Republicans fear their base while the Democrats hate theirs. You would never ever see a prominent Republican spokesperson bashing the "professional right" like that (at least not without a speedy retraction like that buffoon Michael Steele). The Republican base is large and terrifying, and it is smashing the Republican establishment as we speak by beating establishment candidates with Tea Party loons. The Democratic base is weak and puny in comparison. Really, the main reason that liberals aren't getting nearly what they want isn't because Obama is a sellout, it's because the entire Democratic party is heavily weighted towards the center (and the crazy structure of the Senate that requires a 60% supermajority doesn't help things).
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by SirNitram »

The wierdest part is Obama himself doesn't seem to mind those folks; he explicitly used a clip from Maddow when he recorded an address to the Netroots Nation convention. I wonder if there was a change of heart, or Gibbs being an idiot.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by Big Orange »

I'm cynical enough to realise that a lot of the systemic political/economic problems discussed here would still be plaguing the country if Al Gore was voted in instead; there would most likely still been an attempt at 9/11, there would definitely still been a .Com Crash, health-care would still been a hard to address extortion racket, and if 9/11 wasn't butterflied away there would still been an overwhelming demand to invade Afghanistan, although these US catastrophes were obviously exacerbated by Bush the Lesser, a complete numpty, and the psycho Dick Cheney. And while it's clear that Barack Obama is a disappointment in the face of the heavily militarized Republican Party members and supporters shouting him down, it seems like a somewhat progressive POTUS like him is still a decade or so too early for the current political landscape that has remained rather stagnant and has gotten progressively corrupted since the mid 1970s if scary clowns like Sarah Palin got so-far into a election.
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Re: White House proves once more that it hates it base

Post by Coyote »

Too many people (ordinary people and politicians) are flat-out afraid of the Republican right-wing base. They're widely believed to be hard-core militant loonies on a hair-trigger. Now, true, there are occasional acts of violence and terrorism carried out by right-wing loonies (gay club bombings, abortion doctor shootings, anti-government attacks by both truck bomb and plane) but there's this aura that if they don't get what they want they'll become violent.

So Obama ends up (like many politicians) pandering to their most extreme base, trying to mollify a group of people who are, to turn the tables, "professional agitators". Now, to paraphrase from something I saw written on HuffPo a few days ago, the GOP says "jump" and Obama asks "how high"-- he then jumps one inch less than the GOP demanded, and calls that one inch a "progressive victory".

In a way, America these days is so, so very much like the Arab world. Not everyone in the Arab countries is a Muslim, and not all the Muslims are radical lunatics pushing their religious agenda, but the whole society panders to them and walks on eggshells around them out of fear for the violence they promise if things don't go their way. It's disgusting.
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