Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

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Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Mr Bean »

This topic will container spoiler

The talk about Baen books woke me up to the fact that I don't believe we ever had a topic on everyone's favorite Mary Sue writer David Weber's Missions of Honor. Which I read a month back and I've been meaning to share my thoughts about. Mostly because David Weber is a very odd writer. He writes very good books but very shitty characters. And by good books I can say with no reservations he builds nice interesting worlds in I wonder what's going on outside what we can see right in front of us. He however writes some very... very bad characters like the aforementioned Mary Sue Harrington. The best-est person at everything and anything and oh look she has a wisecracking cute animal sidekick who's not only Telepathic but speaks in sign language. See here's the thing with Weber, tree-cats are introduced I don't object to, as in book 1 day 1 I don't mind them. It's where they go from there that I hated. Same thing with Harrington. Day 1 Book 1 I don't mind here. Where she goes on her journey to be a pretty princess and Xena warrior princess in one that I hate. However as I said I liked where he starts I hate where he goes.

Thus can be summed up on my feelings on Missions of Honor, I kept expecting another Deus ex machina to show up and save the day. The closest thing we got was the research staff on Weyland getting away. But I can forgive that because the stations CO(Name I forget) struck me very much as a real officer who had just returned from an active warzone. I had that shit happen to me in person when we had a CO come back from Iraq and we spent a good month running random fire drill and terrorist response drills because the first one we got back sucked. We spent two months at least twice a week evacuating the building and locking down the building.

As sheppard as mentioned the big WTF moment even if I saw it 10 lightyears off was Haven and Manticore teaming up to take on the Solarium League. But I'd tweak the comparison. It's very much as if the UK and Germany (Lets say under Rommel and the conspiracy) teamed up to declare war on Russia in 1944 after the bombing. It's a big WTF moment but I saw it coming four books ago when the layers started coming off the Mesan plan. Should you read this book? At this point unless your devoted to reading what happens next and reading all the core Honor-verse books plus the spin-offs (Which apparently David Weber has taken clues from Marvel because the spin off books contain vital plot points to the main story) your going to be fucking lost. And you have read all those books you know you have to read. Both because the series is building to either a huge letdown or a huge comeuppance when we get to see Albrecht Detweiler standing proud on the bridge of the MANS Genesis while gloating over the burned and broke cinders that are all that is left of the Manitcore home system. Sad to say I don't think we will get that joy. But what we will get is the fun of the Solarium League falls apart and Manticore runs out of missiles leaving it at Haven it's new ally's tend mercy.

Your thoughts on the book?

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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by MKSheppard »

I'll copy this over from the other thread.

Just for lols I went and read it on the Honorverse wiki; and...1% of treecat population only killed? Fuck.

The attack has catastrophic consequences for Manticore's economy and military strength: most of the workforce trained to build ships of war is gone, as is most of the missile-building capacity. Twelve million people have been killed, and no one even knows where the attack came from. Queen Elizabeth, however, makes it clear that she will not allow her Empire to fall before its enemies.

LOL. You stupid bitch. You just lost 99% of your industrial capacity; you simply have no way of replacing OMFG TEH MISSILESPAM in which your dildodreads fire 120% of their mass in missiles in a typical engagement.

Not to mention you can't replace destroyed ships or equipment anymore; while the enemy can bring in new ships easily. This is the freaking equivalent of Japan in 1945 after LeMay's B-29s incinerated the majority of their industrial capacity -- they still remain enough dispersed/small light industrial capacity to build small quantity runs of missiles; and small light attack craft; but the big stuff? No way.

And of course, the end of the book is the basic equivalent of the UK and Germany suddenly, in May 1945 deciding to ally with each other.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

MKSheppard wrote:And of course, the end of the book is the basic equivalent of the UK and Germany suddenly, in May 1945 deciding to ally with each other.
After somehow discovering that they'd been manipulated into fighting each other by the Soviet Union. And after a revolution where the Nazis were overthrown and hunted down; and the new government being the modern German one. And after the UK had all its munitions/shipbuilding industry destroyed, AND the Soviet Union is about to attack. Your analogy is rather shaky.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by eyl »

MKSheppard wrote:LOL. You stupid bitch. You just lost 99% of your industrial capacity; you simply have no way of replacing OMFG TEH MISSILESPAM in which your dildodreads fire 120% of their mass in missiles in a typical engagement.
Besides, just what did you expect - for her to go on the air and say "dear subjects, we're fucked"?
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Batman »

In 'At All Costs' President Pritchart flat out says if she could get away with it she'd surrender rather than continue the war, which STARTED again only due to Mesan manipulation and the abject stupidity of the High Ridge government. Which went on only after MORE Mesan manipulation and thanks to Elizabeth's stubborness after HAVEN proposed a ceasefire and peace negotiations.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by MKSheppard »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:Your analogy is rather shaky.
It's nice to know that village idiot titles are handed out rather fairly.

Rough timeline:

1883 PD: King of Manticore assassinated by Havenite Agents

1905-1915: First Haven-Manticore War -- Havenite government overthrown early in the war with the majority of government officials dying in an airstrike by revolutionary forces.

1914: 1.3 million Havenites killed by leader of Havenite as he has a nuke initated to stop a coup against him.

1915: PM of Manticore assassinated by Havenite supported terrorists

1919-1921: Second Haven-Manticore War -- ends with the Battle of Manticore - 2.2 million dead; thousands of starships wiped out -- I like how this battle, between two second rate powers, is the "biggest" in the Honorverse.

So yeah; it's completely plausible in 1921; that the Manticoreans would be signing an alliance with a nation that has coups on a semi regular basis; fought two wars with Manticore in just twenty years (the last one just ended like days or weeks ago), and has assassinated a King and PM of Manticore.

So what's the reasoning behind this? I mean fuck; the chances of a coup deposing the 'friendly' Havenite government and the war being restarted are high.

Weber's just trying to file off the names from the diplomatic skullduggery of the Napoleonic era; not comprehending the fact that the kind of side-switching on that scale doesn't work anymore in the modern era.

PS Lord of Dumbshit: The 'Modern German Government' didn't exist until after ten years of occupation from 1945-1955 in which the Allies basically ran the damn place and German sovereignity being incredibly limited or non-existent.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by thegreatpl »

Let me just give another historic analogy here, one which the books are more based on:
Manticore=Britain
Haven=France.
Harrington=Nelson.

All of these are obvious and referred to in the afterwords and forewords. In 1810, Britain and France were at war and bitter rivals. They were in the middle of the 2nd hundred years war, and had been on and off war for a century. They finished the Napoleonic wars in 1815, and barely 20-30 years later they were allies. According to the original plan of Weber, it would have been at least a 20 year gap until the Solarian war, since Honor's children would have grown up.

However, that plan was spoiled due to collaborations. So, instead, i will point out the reasons why It makes sense to the current story. Both nations have been trying to stop the war for several years, and only manipulations have stopped this. There have been several years of truce between the two with no fighting. So, both sides have shown the wish for peace.

Then there is the fact both sides have to be shellshocked over the Battle of Manticore. The biggest naval battle in history happens, and massive losses all around. That has got to give one pause.

Add in the mix that then Manticore offers peace when they could just come in and destroy everything, which has to make its way into the minds of many havenites.

Finally, there is the sudden arrival of proof of Mesas meddling arriving in Haven, which gives them an opportunity to blame everything that has gone wrong with them for the past X centuries on someone who is not manticore or themselves. Whether or not it really was them.

Then, with this realization, you get the fact that Mesa is now attempting to use the Solarian League as a weapon against Manticore, and is the one who just made sure Manticore will lose by blowing away their industry. I have to wonder how many members of the Haven Congress are thinking to themselves "are we next?". So they step in and offer the manticorans an alliance, and both will most likely declare war on Mesa soon as well.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

MKSheppard wrote:
Lord of the Abyss wrote:Your analogy is rather shaky.
It's nice to know that village idiot titles are handed out rather fairly.
I got it for criticizing the behavior of American troops in Iraq; it has nothing to do with me being stupid, just unpopular with the military fanboys. And you of all people are in an poor position to mock other people for their titles, Mister Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger.
MKSheppard wrote:1919-1921: Second Haven-Manticore War -- ends with the Battle of Manticore - 2.2 million dead; thousands of starships wiped out -- I like how this battle, between two second rate powers, is the "biggest" in the Honorverse.
Because the next step up from them typically only fights one sided steamroller battles. So did Haven for most of its history.
MKSheppard wrote:So what's the reasoning behind this? I mean fuck; the chances of a coup deposing the 'friendly' Havenite government and the war being restarted are high.
Irrelevant, since without such an alliance they are unlikely to survive.
MKSheppard wrote:PS Lord of Dumbshit: The 'Modern German Government' didn't exist until after ten years of occupation from 1945-1955 in which the Allies basically ran the damn place and German sovereignity being incredibly limited or non-existent.
My point, which you are conveniently ignoring, is that the present Havenite government isn't remotely like the one you compared to the Nazis.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

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The only reason Haven and Manticore were 2nd rate powers is because the Solarian League hogged the whole of the First rate power rank, without leaving anything for the others to share. By the Battle of Manticore though, they were both pretty much 1st rate powers to everyone else, except the Solarian League was still keeping it's head in the sand.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by MKSheppard »

thegreatpl wrote:They finished the Napoleonic wars in 1815, and barely 20-30 years later they were allies.
Jesus; you're a stupid hatfucker. The British and French were not allies until the Entente Cordiale in 1904... 89 fucking years later.
Both nations have been trying to stop the war for several years, and only manipulations have stopped this.
By your logic; Germany 'kept trying to stop' WWII from 1939 onwards.

You don't fight a ten year war (first war) then a two year war which basically results in millions of dead civilians, and thousands of warships (plus the bulk of your fleets) destroyed because of those damn meddling kids who kept the war going.
There have been several years of truce between the two with no fighting. So, both sides have shown the wish for peace.
You mean like the four year interval between War #1 and #2?

That would you know, impress upon the Manticorean Politico-Militaro Complex that Haven is not to be fucking trusted; as if the fact that the place seems to be run on intervals between coups isn't enough.
Then there is the fact both sides have to be shellshocked over the Battle of Manticore. The biggest naval battle in history happens, and massive losses all around. That has got to give one pause.
We didn't see WWI end because of Jutland or the Japanese give up after Midway, Philippine Sea, or Leyte Gulf; the last three which generally involved crushing Japanese losses to little if no US losses at all.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

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MKSheppard wrote: Jesus; you're a stupid hatfucker. The British and French were not allies until the Entente Cordiale in 1904... 89 fucking years later.
I am going to say one word here: Crimean.

I admit I am getting my info from the wikipedia page on France-United Kingdom relations, which says that an alliance was created between 1830 and 1840.

By your logic; Germany 'kept trying to stop' WWII from 1939 onwards.

You don't fight a ten year war (first war) then a two year war which basically results in millions of dead civilians, and thousands of warships (plus the bulk of your fleets) destroyed because of those damn meddling kids who kept the war going.
No, you fight the war because you dont know about those meddling kids. When you do, you make a truce, then beat the living daylights out of them.
You mean like the four year interval between War #1 and #2?

That would you know, impress upon the Manticorean Politico-Militaro Complex that Haven is not to be fucking trusted; as if the fact that the place seems to be run on intervals between coups isn't enough.
You mean the 4 year interval within which the only reason Manticore did not have a treaty was mainly because of the Manticoran government made up of idiots? And the fact that the entire reason the war started again can now be attributed/blamed on Mesan intervention? Despite the fact that i am pretty sure that both the Highridge government, and the Havenite secretary of State both altered the diplomatic notes independently of Mesa for their own reasons.
We didn't see WWI end because of Jutland or the Japanese give up after Midway, Philippine Sea, or Leyte Gulf; the last three which generally involved crushing Japanese losses to little if no US losses at all.
Sure, because those battles did not wipe out practically both sides entire front line navies. Haven has no way to stop manticore coming and wiping out their industrial capacity at the beginning of MoH, half because they cannot match the new Manticoran tech, but the other half because they no longer have a real navy. Manticore just had the largest naval battle in it's backyard, which came this close to them losing the war. Both of these has to shock them.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Batman »

Unless there's information to the contrary post-'Storm from the Shadows' ALL the editing of the diplomatic exchanges that resulted in the resumption of hostilities was done by Giancola on the Haven side, on the behest of Mesa (though he didn't know that, at least if I properly remember 'At All Costs').
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Simon_Jester »

Fanboyism aside, we've got a big improbability issue here: what looks like the beginnings of a military alliance between Manticore and Haven. Looking at the strategic situation on each side:

Manticore (and Grayson, which is practically Manticore's Mini-Me by this point) aren't going to object to the alliance because it saves their asses from the prospect of being swamped by attacks from the League.

With the sneak attack gutting their industrial production, they are in no position to fend off the League Navy. The Havenites are- especially since they come closer to matching the League in sheer size than Manticore does.

The real problem will come from Haven: from the faction that (with reason) sees this as the golden opportunity to crush their long-time enemy. Between the League effectively declaring war on Manticore and the Manticorans losing most of their ability to fight back, Manticore is fucked.

And Pritchart isn't going to have any good way to convince the war-hawk party back home that this is a good time to do anything but press their advantage. That's the part of this that has the potential to be profoundly stupid- making it too easy to bring Haven behind Manticore.

The other way around I can see just because the Manticoran situation is that fucking horrible; they'd ally with Satan to avoid being annexed by the League. But there's really no obvious thing keeping the Havenites from just sitting back and laughing as Manticore gets overrun.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

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Batman wrote:Unless there's information to the contrary post-'Storm from the Shadows' ALL the editing of the diplomatic exchanges that resulted in the resumption of hostilities was done by Giancola on the Haven side, on the behest of Mesa (though he didn't know that, at least if I properly remember 'At All Costs').
I'm pretty sure i remember Highridge saying once to tone a message down. And the Havenite diplomat between Haven and Manticore was definitely in Mesa's pay, so probably did some editing secretly and pressuring Giancola.

But yeah, Giancola did do most of the editing, and he did it for reasons of his own, so really, it was Haven messing up that did it, but they have no way to know that.

I fully expect and hope for political problems for Pritchard back home. Except that the Haven constitution is, i believe, very much like the US. Which means she probably does not need authorization from Congress to put those 300 SDs in the Manticoran system for when the League comes out of hyper. Nor does she need authorization from Congress to sign the treaty, only to confirm it.

Which leads me to believe that the war party in congress does not know where she is, nor where those 300 SDs are, and will not know until she returns saying "Oh, and by the way, 300 of our superdreadnoughts were engaged by/stood up to the Solarian League." This would probably make some of the smarter among the war party back down in order to make sure Haven does not lose face.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Simon_Jester »

thegreatpl wrote:I fully expect and hope for political problems for Pritchard back home. Except that the Haven constitution is, i believe, very much like the US. Which means she probably does not need authorization from Congress to put those 300 SDs in the Manticoran system for when the League comes out of hyper. Nor does she need authorization from Congress to sign the treaty, only to confirm it.
In Haven, that's going to provoke a massive constitutional crisis, and accusations that Prichart is trying to turn Haven into a dictatorship under her personal rule. With reason, because that's what she'd be doing. If she doesn't bring Congress in on this, she's taking Haven to war with the Solarian League and signing an alliance with Haven's worst enemy...

If there's any way to get Pritchart impeached, much of Congress would be calling to do so in that case. And were I a Havenite citizen I might well support them. That is a grotesque overreach on Pritchart's part, from the point of view of constitutional government, something that could only happen without consequences for the leader making the decision in a very rigid dictatorship.
Which leads me to believe that the war party in congress does not know where she is, nor where those 300 SDs are, and will not know until she returns saying "Oh, and by the way, 300 of our superdreadnoughts were engaged by/stood up to the Solarian League." This would probably make some of the smarter among the war party back down in order to make sure Haven does not lose face.
...As opposed to, say, offering the Sollies Pritchart's head on a plate to avoid having the League set its sights on them next?
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by MKSheppard »

Lord of the Abyss wrote:And you of all people are in an poor position to mock other people for their titles, Mister Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger.
Jesus, you're dumb. I specifically asked Mike for this title. :mrgreen:
Lord of teh Abyss wrote:Because the next step up from them typically only fights one sided steamroller battles. So did Haven for most of its history.
Even if it's a onesided battle like Leyte Gulf; guess what? It's still going to be the "biggest battle in the history of the Honorverse" because of all the tonnage the Solarians bring to the table for the one-sided ass-stomping.
Lord of the Abyss wrote:Irrelevant, since without such an alliance they are unlikely to survive.
You really don't understand how diplomacy works in a modern setting do you? There would be zero feeling amongst the Manticorean Politico-Militaro complex that Haven is a reliable, trustworthy partner in negotiations/peace/war/whatever; given the history of the two nations over the last 38 years.

You can't just sweep that under the rug and say "oh, but BUT the 'good guys' ran a coup in Haven and got rid of the 'bad guys', thus they are now BFF!

...Never mind that it was the 'good guys' who launched the FIRST war against Manticore; and got killed off in a bloody coup because they were executing the war against Manticore incompetently.

Then after they launched a coup against the Rob S. Pierrists and regained power....they again immediately launched a SECOND war on Manticore.

So what rationale does Manticore have for acceding to this alliance, given the known untrustworthyness and coup-prone-ness of the Havenites, or the fact that twice so far; Democratic-Republican governments in Haven have declared war on Manticore?
Lord of the Dumbshit wrote:My point, which you are conveniently ignoring, is that the present Havenite government isn't remotely like the one you compared to the Nazis.
Wrong.

Guess who was in charge of the Republic of Haven at the beginning of the Second Manty-Havenite War and authorized the attack on Manticore? PRITCHART.

Guess who was in charge of the Republic of Haven, and who signed the alliance? YES. PRITCHART.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Simon_Jester »

MKSheppard wrote:You really don't understand how diplomacy works in a modern setting do you? There would be zero feeling amongst the Manticorean Politico-Militaro complex that Haven is a reliable, trustworthy partner in negotiations/peace/war/whatever; given the history of the two nations over the last 38 years.
True. They are not a trustworthy partner. They are, however, the guys with hundreds of battleships coming to save your home system from your enemies, which is really all you need.

Beggars can't be choosers.
You can't just sweep that under the rug and say "oh, but BUT the 'good guys' ran a coup in Haven and got rid of the 'bad guys', thus they are now BFF!

...Never mind that it was the 'good guys' who launched the FIRST war against Manticore; and got killed off in a bloody coup because they were executing the war against Manticore incompetently.
Uh, no? The first war was started by corrupt oligarchs. The oligarchs got couped by the totalitarian revolutionary dictatorship. Then the dictatorship got couped by the pro-democracy faction.
Then after they launched a coup against the Rob S. Pierrists and regained power....they again immediately launched a SECOND war on Manticore.
The pro-democrats sued for peace, and kept negotiating for four years. After a series of increasingly hostile diplomatic exchanges triggered by Haven's frustration with the Manticoran government of the time refusing to actually allow any progress to be made on the peace settlement, they decided to resume hostilities.
So what rationale does Manticore have for acceding to this alliance, given the known untrustworthyness and coup-prone-ness of the Havenites, or the fact that twice so far; Democratic-Republican governments in Haven have declared war on Manticore?
Once; the Legislaturalists were not a democracy any more than Zimbabwe is.
Lord of the Dumbshit wrote:My point, which you are conveniently ignoring, is that the present Havenite government isn't remotely like the one you compared to the Nazis.
Wrong.
Guess who was in charge of the Republic of Haven at the beginning of the Second Manty-Havenite War and authorized the attack on Manticore? PRITCHART.
Guess who was in charge of the Republic of Haven, and who signed the alliance? YES. PRITCHART.
The only thing the Manticorans have going for them is that they can get their telepathic alien buddies to read the minds of any available Havenites to tell whether they're negotiating in good faith. Since Haven is as you observe coup-prone, this proves little.

But once again, the Manties may not trust Haven, but they have little choice. They need Haven in order to maintain a long-term viable defense of their own territory.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

MKSheppard wrote:
Lord of the Abyss wrote:And you of all people are in an poor position to mock other people for their titles, Mister Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger.
Jesus, you're dumb. I specifically asked Mike for this title. :mrgreen:
Assuming that's so, I fail to see how not knowing that qualifies me as "dumb". Most people would consider being called that an insult, you know.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Dahak »

I only read the ARC until now, maybe I will get the "real" one in e-form soonish, not sure how much has changed.

As for the content, HH right now is somewhat of a guilty pleasure. Sure, she's Mary Sue incarnate, and DW still is the master of the horrid info dump, but once in a while I just enjoy reading a good space battle or kicking the teeth of Solarians.

As for the alliance thing: given the way DW laid out the things, it is somewhat believable to me. Sure, it looks highly improbable from the outside, but as has been mentioned: beggars can't be choosers. So dear Lizzie is grabbing for any straw, and Pritchard just fears she's going to be next on the Mesa list. So it might make more sense than to kill each other...
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Simon_Jester
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Simon_Jester »

Again, the place where the alliance is likely to break down is on the Havenite end. Manticore has very good reason to accept such a deal; Haven doesn't, unless you accept the (rather unlikely, on the face of it) story about the Mesan Alignment planning to manipulate Haven for a fall.
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thegreatpl
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by thegreatpl »

MKSheppard wrote: Even if it's a onesided battle like Leyte Gulf; guess what? It's still going to be the "biggest battle in the history of the Honorverse" because of all the tonnage the Solarians bring to the table for the one-sided ass-stomping.
Yeah, the biggest battle in the history of the Honorverse is not likely to stay with the Battle of Manticore for long. But the point is, there are like 5 known nations who we know explicitly can field more than a hundred SDs: Solarian League, Grayson, Manticore, Haven and the Andermani. The Midgard probably can as well, but we know nothing about them except they worried the Andermani back in the time of the first book more than Haven did.

There were something like at least 600 SDs in the battle of Manticore. Frankly, I doubt most wars previously needed more than a hundred to be deployed. In the future, the title of the Biggest battle is likely to keep getting passed up as Haven and Manticore eat up the tonnage of the Solarian league. The point was that it is the current title holder.
You really don't understand how diplomacy works in a modern setting do you? There would be zero feeling amongst the Manticorean Politico-Militaro complex that Haven is a reliable, trustworthy partner in negotiations/peace/war/whatever; given the history of the two nations over the last 38 years.
Modern diplomacy? How can that apply? We are like a millennia or two in the future in this setting. Who knows how diplomacy works.
You can't just sweep that under the rug and say "oh, but BUT the 'good guys' ran a coup in Haven and got rid of the 'bad guys', thus they are now BFF!
who said anything about sweeping it under the rug? Some of us english still dislike the frogs after 200 years of alliance. Except now we channeled that dislike and rivalry into something peaceful, such as who has the biggest penis size.
Simon_Jester wrote:Again, the place where the alliance is likely to break down is on the Havenite end. Manticore has very good reason to accept such a deal; Haven doesn't, unless you accept the (rather unlikely, on the face of it) story about the Mesan Alignment planning to manipulate Haven for a fall.
Agreed. I think Pritchard might be gambling on the hope that the Congress will not back down and lose face when she gets back. I hope there will be some interesting deals made there. She probably will say she believes they will be next on Mesa's list.

Actually, she has a much more obvious ploy; Simply say that she will not stand for a tyrannical and undemocratic government as the Solarian league, which is famous for forcefully taking over systems by force, to annex such a close system as Manticore.
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Samuel »

Modern diplomacy? How can that apply? We are like a millennia or two in the future in this setting. Who knows how diplomacy works.
Given they are still baseline human, exactly the same?
Actually, she has a much more obvious ploy; Simply say that she will not stand for a tyrannical and undemocratic government as the Solarian league, which is famous for forcefully taking over systems by force, to annex such a close system as Manticore.
Yes, Haven must... annex Manticore first! :angelic:
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by Simon_Jester »

Samuel wrote:
Actually, she has a much more obvious ploy; Simply say that she will not stand for a tyrannical and undemocratic government as the Solarian league, which is famous for forcefully taking over systems by force, to annex such a close system as Manticore.
Yes, Haven must... annex Manticore first! :angelic:
For a book where that happens, I'd pay Baen's ridiculous hardback price.
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thegreatpl
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Re: Harrington & Missions of Honor (David Weber )

Post by thegreatpl »

Sheppard said "how diplomacy works in a MODERN setting" He was thus implying that he believes there are other methods of how diplomacy work. I was simply pointing out that this is the future, and thus cultural, political, and physical climates have moved on.
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