Master Chief vs Commander Shepard (Mass Effect)

[Star Wars 888]

Halo tech is far more advanced than Mass Effect tech; quite frankly IDK if the latter's guns and penetrate Master Chief's armor.

[Stark]

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Star Wars 888]

What the fuck are you talking about?

Are you referring to me?

Mass Effect dreadnought's main guns are around 28 kilotons, which quite frankly is pathetically weak compared to Star Wars or Halo tech.

In terms of ground combat, Mass Effect guns and their firepower can be hard to quantify, but I doubt that they're superior to Halo ground weapons given the huge tech difference shown by their space combat tech.

[Ghost Rider]

What the fuck are you talking about?

Are you referring to me?

Mass Effect dreadnought's main guns are around 28 kilotons, which quite frankly is pathetically weak compared to Star Wars or Halo tech.

In terms of ground combat, Mass Effect guns and their firepower can be hard to quantify, but I doubt that they're superior to Halo ground weapons given the huge tech difference shown by their space combat tech.

That says nothing about personal arms, dumbfuck. Provide something other then your blithering.

[Stargazer]

Halo space tech is better than Mass Effect space tech. Ground tech is a whole other story. On the ground is a whole other story. The UNSC still uses chemically-propelled weapons on the ground, and for the most part are no more advanced than modern ground combat (Spartans not included). Standard Mass Effect ground troops are equipped with railgun weaponry, personal shielding, automatic medical systems in their armor, and personal scanners. Powered armor is also known for more high-end armor. So I'm pretty sure Mass Effect weapons present a threat to Master Chief.

[Star Wars 888]

What the fuck are you talking about?

That says nothing about personal arms, dumbfuck. Provide something other then your blithering.

Although gameplay makes it so that kinetic barriers can stop a huge number of rounds, in cutscenes people with kinetic barriers still get put down by a single direct hit, implying that kinetic barriers can only stop rounds from a distance or glancing blows.

Also, husks charging in with melee attacks are a threat to said barriers.

However, fight would depend on a lot of variables. What's the environment? What weapons are both sides carrying? What class is Shepard?

EDIT: well, the OP addressed what weapons MC has, but doesn't say what the environment is.

[Stark]

No, you doubted that the guns would even work against MC's armour; obviously suggesting MC's armour is some kind of amazing thing that primitive railgun magicguns will struggle with.

That's nothing to do with situations or any of that shit. Heavy ME armour is quite possibly stronger than MC's suit, and ME pistols can kill tank-equivalents. So....

[Star Wars 888]

No, you doubted that the guns would even work against MC's armour; obviously suggesting MC's armour is some kind of amazing thing that primitive railgun magicguns will struggle with.

That's nothing to do with situations or any of that shit. Heavy ME armour is quite possibly stronger than MC's suit, and ME pistols can kill tank-equivalents. So....

Since when can ME pistols kill tank-equivalents?

[Stark]

Dude, the pistol is probably the most powerful gun in ME1, and it handily defeats the armour on Armatures. With the right mods it's even cheesier.

[Ghost Rider]

No, you doubted that the guns would even work against MC's armour; obviously suggesting MC's armour is some kind of amazing thing that primitive railgun magicguns will struggle with.

That's nothing to do with situations or any of that shit. Heavy ME armour is quite possibly stronger than MC's suit, and ME pistols can kill tank-equivalents. So....

Since when can ME pistols kill tank-equivalents?

Sweetness, I want to see the proof that MC set up is equal to a Mass Effect Tank! You do have it, right?

[Stargazer]

Pistols can't damage tanks, but the Widow Anti-Materiel rifle Shepard is carrying around here can. Kinetic barrier on the average Mass Effect soldier only last for half a dozen shots or so, but Shepard isn't exactly an average Mass Effect soldier.

As for scenario- let's say they start 200 meters apart in an open, rocky environment.

[SylasGaunt]

Also, husks charging in with melee attacks are a threat to said barriers.

This is a function of the barriers having a set 'threshold' for what they will and won't intercept. It's there so you can do things like touch stuff without blowing it across the room when your kinetic barriers detect something approaching you. In this case the fact that the chief punches super hard and super fast is going to work against him.

Oh and let's not even get into the whole 'heheh, threatened by melee strikes' thing with Halo on the other end of it.

[DPDarkPrimus]

There are multiple instances in Mass Effect 1 and 2 cutscenes where a character with a kinetic barrier is shot to no effect.

[Ford Prefect]

In terms of ground combat, Mass Effect guns and their firepower can be hard to quantify, but I doubt that they're superior to Halo ground weapons given the huge tech difference shown by their space combat tech.

This is pretty hilarious because there is such a massive disconnect between the UNSC's power in space and their capabilities on the ground. The UNSC actually uses a five hundred year old round in their rifles. Apart from a couple of things here and there, it would be generous to say that they're about equivalent to the real world circa Vietnam, on the ground.

[Highlord Laan]

In terms of ground combat, Mass Effect guns and their firepower can be hard to quantify, but I doubt that they're superior to Halo ground weapons given the huge tech difference shown by their space combat tech.

This is pretty hilarious because there is such a massive disconnect between the UNSC's power in space and their capabilities on the ground. The UNSC actually uses a five hundred year old round in their rifles. Apart from a couple of things here and there, it would be generous to say that they're about equivalent to the real world circa Vietnam, on the ground.

Which is rather strange, since in one of the books, MC mentions that while the UNSC can barely hang on with frayed fingernails in space during the few times they have numerical superiority, they ruin the Covenant's shit on the ground without exception.

[Stark]

That's because the covenant ground forces are clinically retarded.

[adam_grif]

If you're talking about how in-game shields provide protection, that's probably game mechanics. Armor doesn't provide immunity to all kinds of force either.

Impossible to tell. A lot of stupid shit in ME2 got codex supported explanations.

"100x" health is again appealing to game mechanics. Skin weave and bone weave upgrades and top-of-the-line armor disagree with you.

Skin / bone weave are likewise nothing but game mechanics, and simply appealing to their existence in the cannon without having any way to know what they do and how effective they are is not helping. Other people in MEverse get those kinds of upgrades too, gene mods and cybernetics aren't unusual. Which is why I said he's no tougher than other soldiers in-universe.

Shepard's shields can likely take the first few hits of whatever MC fires at him aside from the Spartan laser, and then have time to either go invisible and pull out the Widow to snipe MC's head off, charge him and rip him up with the Claymore, or slap a singularity on him and fill him with lead from the Revenant.

Everything you just said is speculation. You've no idea of relative firepower of Halo weapons and ME weapons, except that Halo weapons are similar to real life weapons in many ways. You have no idea how effective their armors are, and have no actual benchmark for any ME infantry weapons. You can't really conclude anything like "rar they're better than real life weapons obviously", they fire extremely small, low mass projectiles at extremely high speeds. If anything, that means they're probably less useful at doing tissue damage than real life weapons are. Will it interact better or worse than regular guns with halo shields and armor? No idea!

Likewise, the inverse is true. We've got no fucking clue how well haloverse weapons are going to handle Kinetic Barriers and ME composites.

And if it's Engineer Shep, then it's actually even more one sided. Overload, Incinerate, walk away.

Gameplay mechanics. Overload, incinerate etc are never shown outside of gameplay, and even in-unvierse, tech powers are explained as magical omnitool... stuff. You may as well claim that Shepard could totally hack the Spartan suit and shut it down, because like they totally can hack geth for 5 seconds at a time.

and ME pistols can kill tank-equivalents. So....

Gameplay mechanics. Shitty hitpoint models, etc. Armatures aren't "tank equivelants", maybe light IFV equivelant. Colossi is more like a tank in the sense that it's much more heavily armored and has a better gun. Even then, it's still not really a tank, and gets the shit pounded out of it by something that actually is a tank equivelant, the Mako.

You fight about two Armatures that I can think of on foot "canonically", the colossi and other armatures that you CAN kill on foot are "supposed" to be killed by the Mako main gun. In ME2 they specifically don't let you out of the shitty hovertank so you can't kill the Colossi on foot anymore.

There are multiple instances in Mass Effect 1 and 2 cutscenes where a character with a kinetic barrier is shot to no effect.

There's also the Nihilus incident

This is pretty hilarious because there is such a massive disconnect between the UNSC's power in space and their capabilities on the ground. The UNSC actually uses a five hundred year old round in their rifles. Apart from a couple of things here and there, it would be generous to say that they're about equivalent to the real world circa Vietnam, on the ground.

That's fair to say for the regular UNSC forces. Of course, 7.62 NATO rounds aren't exactly wimpy either, nor is the 14.5mm antimaterial rounds that go in the sniper rifle. Haloverse shields can tank several of said rounds, depending on what you're shooting. The 7.62mm's get laughed off by them.

Lacking actual ME energy comparisons to do a naive estimate on effectiveness, I'm not really sure what we have to go off here.

[Stark]

Oh what EVER. 'Oh it's not a tank it's a ALQ-91BBQ'. Jesus christ. Only the MC's heavy weapons could do the same so the point stands.

Uh oh, Halo shield hitpoints are okay. ME hitpoints are bad. Hmmm...

[adam_grif]

Oh what EVER. 'Oh it's not a tank it's a ALQ-91BBQ'. Jesus christ.

It's the size of a humvee and had all the combat effectiveness of being able to pin down like 3 quarrian foot soldiers. Arguably, it's less effective than a YMIR mech for combat.

Only the MC's heavy weapons could do the same so the point stands.

This is about as compelling an argument as "Dude, the enterprise can like totally wipe out Klingon ships" in a vs debate. No, it's way worse, because gameplay isn't cannon. Hey, why don't you just take the bit in ME2 where shields block sunlight as evidence that not even the spartan laser can harm Shepard!

ME weapons can kill big mechs in ME with extreme quantities of concentrated fire. Good. So why does this mean that ME weapons are super powerful, instead of meaning that ME armor is not very good or that Halo armor is better, or that Geth Armatures aren't heavily armored? You have no constant between the two universes to compare anything to.

Uh oh, Halo shield hitpoints are okay. ME hitpoints are bad. Hmmm...

If you were going to argue that Halo rifles can destroy tanks because of shitty in-game hitpoint systems allowing it to happen in the gameplay, I would have said the exact same thing. Shields as hitpoints doesn't mean shit, they make up the physics, whatever. Armor as hitpoints is really dumb.

[Stark]

So you're saying gameplay isn't 'cannon' right after you talk about Halo gameplay? Oh dear.

ME smallarms can penetrate more armour than Halo ones. Unles Halo armour is superior, the idea that MCs armour will pose a problem is dumb.

PROTP: talking about how gameplay and hitpoints are 'dumb'' in the same post you talk about how many huts a shield can tank = lol.

[Lord Relvenous]

So you're saying gameplay isn't 'cannon' right after you talk about Halo gameplay? Oh dear.

ME smallarms can penetrate more armour than Halo ones. Unles Halo armour is superior, the idea that MCs armour will pose a problem is dumb.

In the novel The Fall of Reach, Master Chief took a direct 3 round burst from a MA5B Assault Rifle (rifle from the first game) and it drained "a hairbreadth" of his shields (Page 256) during his testing of the new shielded armor. Later in that same scene, three Marines open fire on MC on full-auto. All we get about the effect was that it was "draining the shield precipitously". Later again, he engages some automated 30mm chain-gun emplacements. No idea on how many hits, but after destroying the chain guns with grenades from cover his shield is down 1/4 (Page 261). On the next page, he "catches a smattering of rounds" from a 50mm cannon, which drops his shield to half. Then of course, there's the case of the anti-tank missile that he slaps aside ( ) exploding right next to him that drops his shield completely, throws a half-ton+ of man and armor flying 6 meters, and yet fails to kill him.

While I don't think we can pull out any specific numbers from those passages, they do give us an idea of what his shields can take. Of course, no idea on his armor from those passages, though it is evident that the shields are his first and best defense.

[Stargazer]

Impossible to tell. A lot of stupid shit in ME2 got codex supported explanations.

Yes, but you still need to provide such an explanation for whatever you're arguing.

Skin / bone weave are likewise nothing but game mechanics, and simply appealing to their existence in the cannon without having any way to know what they do and how effective they are is not helping. Other people in MEverse get those kinds of upgrades too, gene mods and cybernetics aren't unusual. Which is why I said he's no tougher than other soldiers in-universe.

Each upgrade gets a little fluff blurb about it. The number effect is game mechanics, but the existence of the upgrade is not. Gene mods are common, but such surgical modifications like the skin, bone, and muscle weaves are not mentioned anywhere as common. There's also the fact that Shepard can wield the Claymore shotgun and Widow AMR, which are stated to be unusable by normal humans because they would break their shoulders.

Everything you just said is speculation. You've no idea of relative firepower of Halo weapons and ME weapons, except that Halo weapons are similar to real life weapons in many ways. You have no idea how effective their armors are, and have no actual benchmark for any ME infantry weapons. You can't really conclude anything like "rar they're better than real life weapons obviously", they fire extremely small, low mass projectiles at extremely high speeds. If anything, that means they're probably less useful at doing tissue damage than real life weapons are. Will it interact better or worse than regular guns with halo shields and armor? No idea!

The Widow is a weapon that threatens armored vehicles. The Claymore shatters a normal human's arm. That already puts them above modern weapons. And the Revenant is a light machine gun, plenty bigger than the normal stuff that threatens MC.

Likewise, the inverse is true. We've got no fucking clue how well haloverse weapons are going to handle Kinetic Barriers and ME composites.

Since they don't seem much better than modern weapons... I'll side with the more advanced tech.

Gameplay mechanics. Overload, incinerate etc are never shown outside of gameplay, and even in-unvierse, tech powers are explained as magical omnitool... stuff. You may as well claim that Shepard could totally hack the Spartan suit and shut it down, because like they totally can hack geth for 5 seconds at a time.

Again, abilities get a little fluff blurb. Specifically, overload (and sabotage) are demonstrated in one of the novels. The basic understanding of how it works is that the omni-tool launches a "tech grenade" which then releases some kind of EMP pulse.

Geth hacking is somewhat explainable. The nature of the geth is that they are networked, wirelessly. This allows for hacking. However, any hacking attempt is very brief because geth automatically overwrite corrupted files and restore from archived backups.
Over

Gameplay mechanics. Shitty hitpoint models, etc. Armatures aren't "tank equivelants", maybe light IFV equivelant. Colossi is more like a tank in the sense that it's much more heavily armored and has a better gun. Even then, it's still not really a tank, and gets the shit pounded out of it by something that actually is a tank equivelant, the Mako.

The Mako is called an IFV. And, as an IFV, it has a 155 mm mass accelerator cannon. The Scorpion tank has a 90 mm cannon. Just sayin'.

You fight about two Armatures that I can think of on foot "canonically", the colossi and other armatures that you CAN kill on foot are "supposed" to be killed by the Mako main gun. In ME2 they specifically don't let you out of the shitty hovertank so you can't kill the Colossi on foot anymore.

Uh, hello? Haestrom? Self-repairing Colossus?

That's fair to say for the regular UNSC forces. Of course, 7.62 NATO rounds aren't exactly wimpy either, nor is the 14.5mm antimaterial rounds that go in the sniper rifle. Haloverse shields can tank several of said rounds, depending on what you're shooting. The 7.62mm's get laughed off by them.

Lacking actual ME energy comparisons to do a naive estimate on effectiveness, I'm not really sure what we have to go off here.

This argument is fair enough regarding weapons alone. Soldier Shepard, I suppose, would have the odds against him. But infiltrator Shepard? Adept Shepard? Combination of all of that? MC has more to worry about than straight firepower.

[lordofchange13]

it will be equal terms for most of the classes exscluding Vanguard, the tech one(can't remember name), and adept. all the will rape master chief in moments: the vanguard will use its super speed/head bute move to nock him ober then shoot him with a geth shot gun to the face.
the tech will hack the A.I im master chiefs suit effectivly paralising him then will shoot him in the face.
the adept will first mke a black hole in master chiefs gun making it useless, and if the black hole dosent kill him some how, sheppard will use warp to blow a hole in master chiefs chest.
the rest of the battles it could go ether way depending on weapons, and what power armor varent the chif has.

[Norade]

So you're saying gameplay isn't 'cannon' right after you talk about Halo gameplay? Oh dear.

ME smallarms can penetrate more armour than Halo ones. Unles Halo armour is superior, the idea that MCs armour will pose a problem is dumb.

In the novel The Fall of Reach, Master Chief took a direct 3 round burst from a MA5B Assault Rifle (rifle from the first game) and it drained "a hairbreadth" of his shields (Page 256) during his testing of the new shielded armor. Later in that same scene, three Marines open fire on MC on full-auto. All we get about the effect was that it was "draining the shield precipitously". Later again, he engages some automated 30mm chain-gun emplacements. No idea on how many hits, but after destroying the chain guns with grenades from cover his shield is down 1/4 (Page 261). On the next page, he "catches a smattering of rounds" from a 50mm cannon, which drops his shield to half. Then of course, there's the case of the anti-tank missile that he slaps aside ( ) exploding right next to him that drops his shield completely, throws a half-ton+ of man and armor flying 6 meters, and yet fails to kill him.

While I don't think we can pull out any specific numbers from those passages, they do give us an idea of what his shields can take. Of course, no idea on his armor from those passages, though it is evident that the shields are his first and best defense.

You're ignoring the fact that due to Halo's retarded cannon the game play on the hardest difficulty is actually cannon for how tough MC actually is and the fact that that cannon is higher than that of the books. Due to this fact we know that it only takes 18 7.62 x51mm rounds to knock his shields down and kill him. The total kinetic energy applied from these rounds, assuming 100% energy transfer a single round imparts 3,526 Joules of energy and the total for 18 rounds is 63.5 kJ of energy. That's rather unimpressive.

it will be equal terms for most of the classes exscluding Vanguard, the tech one(can't remember name), and adept. all the will rape master chief in moments: the vanguard will use its super speed/head bute move to nock him ober then shoot him with a geth shot gun to the face.
the tech will hack the A.I im master chiefs suit effectivly paralising him then will shoot him in the face.
the adept will first mke a black hole in master chiefs gun making it useless, and if the black hole dosent kill him some how, sheppard will use warp to blow a hole in master chiefs chest.
the rest of the battles it could go ether way depending on weapons, and what power armor varent the chif has.

I know that I'm not a mod, but could you please have enough respect for the board to run a spell check before posting.

[Lord Relvenous]

So you're saying gameplay isn't 'cannon' right after you talk about Halo gameplay? Oh dear.

ME smallarms can penetrate more armour than Halo ones. Unles Halo armour is superior, the idea that MCs armour will pose a problem is dumb.

In the novel The Fall of Reach, Master Chief took a direct 3 round burst from a MA5B Assault Rifle (rifle from the first game) and it drained "a hairbreadth" of his shields (Page 256) during his testing of the new shielded armor. Later in that same scene, three Marines open fire on MC on full-auto. All we get about the effect was that it was "draining the shield precipitously". Later again, he engages some automated 30mm chain-gun emplacements. No idea on how many hits, but after destroying the chain guns with grenades from cover his shield is down 1/4 (Page 261). On the next page, he "catches a smattering of rounds" from a 50mm cannon, which drops his shield to half. Then of course, there's the case of the anti-tank missile that he slaps aside ( ) exploding right next to him that drops his shield completely, throws a half-ton+ of man and armor flying 6 meters, and yet fails to kill him.

While I don't think we can pull out any specific numbers from those passages, they do give us an idea of what his shields can take. Of course, no idea on his armor from those passages, though it is evident that the shields are his first and best defense.

You're ignoring the fact that due to Halo's retarded cannon the game play on the hardest difficulty is actually cannon for how tough MC actually is and the fact that that cannon is higher than that of the books. Due to this fact we know that it only takes 18 7.62 x51mm rounds to knock his shields down and kill him. The total kinetic energy applied from these rounds, assuming 100% energy transfer a single round imparts 3,526 Joules of energy and the total for 18 rounds is 63.5 kJ of energy. That's rather unimpressive.

You're serious? Wow. That is just... silly. So Halo is one of the few instances where game play actually can be used? Really though, that's just silly. It makes Grunts ridiculously durable and Marines laughably weak. Nevermind then. Master Chief gets his ass handed to him.