Leaving Iraq

[Kanastrous]

The banner on MSNBC.com advertises that the last of the US forces being withdrawn from Iraq this year are crossing the border into Kuwait.

Just wanted to mark the moment...

[Kanastrous]

Last of the US combat forces, that is.

[Aaron]

So US combat forces are gone totally or just the ones expected to leave this year?

[Dominus Atheos]

We ARE NOT withdrawing all combat troops, we're withdrawing only 14,000 troops and leaving 50,000 in there but calling them advise and assist brigades despite being fully armed and fully fuctional. The DOD was even nice enough to provide a partial list of the "advise and assist brigades" still in Iraq:

The Department of Defense announced today major units scheduled to deploy as part of the next force rotation in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The announcement involves three brigade combat teams, and one armored cavalry regiment totaling approximately 15,000 personnel. The scheduled rotation for these forces will begin in the summer of 2010.

These units will serve as advise and assist brigades and will replace redeploying units, with no increase in overall force levels.

Specific units receiving deployment orders include:


4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.


2nd Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, Wahiawa, Hawaii

3 rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, Fort Hood, Texas

4th Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division, Fort Hood, Texas

Additionally, the secretary of defense approved a request by the commander of Multi-National Forces-Iraq (MNF-I) to extend the deployment of the 1st Cavalry Division Headquarters for up to an additional 23 days, and elements of the II Marine Expeditionary Force for up to an additional 79 days.

The extensions will ensure that key capabilities are maintained during the critical period following the January elections, and provide additional support for the orderly redeployment of the remaining Marine Corps forces and equipment.

The department recognizes the continued contributions of these units and their family members.

You'll notice 3 of those are outright named "Combat Teams" even though they are being called "advise and assist brigades".

[Kanastrous]

Well, color me corrected.

[SirNitram]

The 50k men staying under different names is no surprise. We've known it for a while. Still, this draw-down is early, and it should be credited to the POTUS.

[Jim Raynor]

Obama ran on a platform of drawing down troops in Iraq, but in a "responsible" manner that would be leaving tens of thousands of troops there for a while longer to assist the Iraqi government. With some of that assistance being "counterterrorism." He openly stated this two years ago. I think he has handled this pretty well.

[Ritterin Sophia]

You'll notice 3 of those are outright named "Combat Teams" even though they are being called "advise and assist brigades".

Yeah, that's a duh. What are these Brigades supposed to be advising and assisting the Iraqis with? Combating insurgents. Who do you want to train people to combat insurgents? People with experience combating insurgents. Honestly it's not like these units aren't qualified to train Soldiers, you do more training in your unit than you do in basic or MOS training. All your initial entry training does is teach you the basics of the military and your job in it so you have a core knowledge to build on when you get to your unit so that they can work with you on a more individual basis.

[Temujin]

We ARE NOT withdrawing all combat troops, we're withdrawing only 14,000 troops and leaving 50,000 in there but calling them advise and assist brigades despite being fully armed and fully fuctional. The DOD was even nice enough to provide a partial list of the "advise and assist brigades" still in Iraq:

DoD Snip

You'll notice 3 of those are outright named "Combat Teams" even though they are being called "advise and assist brigades".

When I saw the this on the front page of MSNBC this morning I thought they were overstating the withdrawal. Still, at least there is some progress. If McGimp were in charge, the troops would be leaving Iraq, only to invade Iran.

[Medic]

We ARE NOT withdrawing all combat troops, we're withdrawing only 14,000 troops and leaving 50,000 in there but calling them advise and assist brigades despite being fully armed and fully fuctional. The DOD was even nice enough to provide a partial list of the "advise and assist brigades" still in Iraq:

The Department of Defense announced today major units scheduled to deploy as part of the next force rotation in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The announcement involves three brigade combat teams, and one armored cavalry regiment totaling approximately 15,000 personnel. The scheduled rotation for these forces will begin in the summer of 2010.

These units will serve as advise and assist brigades and will replace redeploying units, with no increase in overall force levels.

Specific units receiving deployment orders include:


4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, Ga.


2nd Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, Wahiawa, Hawaii

3 rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, Fort Hood, Texas

4th Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division, Fort Hood, Texas

Additionally, the secretary of defense approved a request by the commander of Multi-National Forces-Iraq (MNF-I) to extend the deployment of the 1st Cavalry Division Headquarters for up to an additional 23 days, and elements of the II Marine Expeditionary Force for up to an additional 79 days.

The extensions will ensure that key capabilities are maintained during the critical period following the January elections, and provide additional support for the orderly redeployment of the remaining Marine Corps forces and equipment.

The department recognizes the continued contributions of these units and their family members.

You'll notice 3 of those are outright named "Combat Teams" even though they are being called "advise and assist brigades".

Eh... this isn't as duplicitous or as Orwellian as it sounds. "BCT" or "Brigade Combat Team" indicates what their MTOE would reflect in a big shooting war. Go to any of those units respective post website (hood.army.mil for the 4th BCT, 1st CAV or stewart.army.mil for the Rock of the Marne's 4th BCT), go to units and look at the constituent elements. They'll all be battalions but in general, a common mixture for a BCT is 2 infantry battalions, an armor battalion, a cavalry squadron (company equivalent), an artillery battalion, and some kind've STB or Special Troops Battalion, which contain combat support and combat service & support duties like commo and NBC warfare types. IN A SHOOTING WAR, that means that infantry unit has a lot of bodies and a few humvees, that tank unit deploys with dozens of tanks, that cav unit has plenty of bradleys or humveys, that artillery unit has field pieces or SPA.

This isn't that kind've shooting war, most of these units, and this has been the case for years now, deploy with a few milvans (connexes), maybe some LMTV's or other utility trucks, and the shirts on their backs. Often times their manpower they take down range is more (or less) than what it would be if they were in their traditional strength. But all the equipment? The uparmored humvees, armored cars and MRAPs are all already downrange, and have been for years. Those are the tools of this counterinsurgency warfare because they're more mine resistant and there's simply not enough targets to justify every unit deploying with dozens of AFV's and artillery pieces since 2008 and it would be prohibitively expensive to ship all of our expendable mine-resistant vehicles back and forth. They were shipped into theater months and years ago and different tenant units have used them in turn.

In short, an Advise and Assist Brigade (AAB) is exactly that, and not a BCT. These units may nominally still be referred to as "BCT's" because that is what they were and will revert to upon redeployment and, surprise surprise, the media is woefully inaccurate in their use of language as it pertains to the military. Bradley's have been referred to as "tanks" for years and will be for years to come, I'm sure.
But, especially now, they do NOT have that equipment in country. Our great follow-on asset in terms of fire support are fighter jets and gunships. Organically, and by that I mean "they have the capability within their own ranks," these AAB's still have as many bodies worth in M4's, M16's and M9's, plenty of SAW's, M240's and .50 caliber machine guns and that in itself is not inconsiderable firepower when you can shoot safely from 20-30 ton pillboxes-on-wheels known as MRAP's. To quote someone over at HPCA, take a look at everything around you on a city block. A .50 cal will go through any of it. (I don't know for a fact but I get the impression Mk. 19's aren't used in theater and haven't been for some time. That's an automatic grenade launcher and, well, if you use that indiscriminately you don't need a tank to be accused of overkill. BUT, that is a crew served weapon capable of being mounted on the smallest tactical vehicle, FYI)

[Medic]

Completely off-topic, but this vent makes more sense here than the proper venting thread:
SONUVABITCH, 3rd ACR is deploying? Their's was one of the better tasting dining facilities at Ft. Hood and although a 10 minute drive from me, I'd go there over the crappy one 5 minutes walk from my unit. *sigh*