A fundie declares misfortune is God's plan

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-02-21 09:17am

I pulled this from a guy on a Christian web board; it was so funny I had to share. This guy believes, in short, that God predetermines EVERYTHING, good and bad, and causes evil and misfortune to happen to us because it's part of his plan. This was his coup de grace:

I happen to have a disability, and I give all the credit for it (not the blame) to God. To make a long story short, through a botched operation on my spine I lost all the feeling, and some of the control, in my left leg from the hips down. I know that God used that operation to take away my leg, my ability to run, to drive, etc., for His greater purpose. After the operation I was bedridden for months, and had time to study and to pray like I never had before. Through that study and prayer my relationship with God was strengthened, and I was given the tools needed to help win my girlfriend to Christ. Praise God!

I have been forced to 'slow down', to reevaluate my goals, my gifts, and my relationships with all those around me. I have been given time to study, to pray, to preach that would not have been available otherwise.
Should God take credit for disabilities? Absolutely. What is it that He cannot do?

So, remember, kids: God predetermines everything and is responsible for everything, good or bad! No matter what you do to them, it's God's Will! So CRACK baseball bats against their bodies! Steal their cash! Screw their wives! Whatever we do, God intended it to happen and fundies have to accept it! Whee!

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-02-21 09:24am

I was going to say he`s an idiot but it look like sarcasm to me.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-02-21 09:29am

Well, considering that's one of the basic argumnents used in Philosophy to prove that God's existence is A priori despite being an asshole, I can't say I'm totally surprised.

Frank_Scenario · Post by **Frank_Scenario** » 2003-02-21 09:46am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:Well, considering that's one of the basic argumnents used in Philosophy to prove that God's existence is A priori despite being an asshole, I can't say I'm totally surprised.

I don't see an argument for God's existence here. In fact, the only argument I know that claims God is necessary is the ontological argument, which has been discussed on this board already already. What this guy is saying is not the ontological argument.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-02-21 09:48am

It may not seem to be a surprise, but it's shocking to me. I can't imagine what they're thinking. This kind of thing makes me worried that they could just start opening fire on unbelievers and then claim later on that because God predetermines everything and controls everything, that it was God's will and that's that.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-02-21 09:59am

Frank_Scenario wrote:I don't see an argument for God's existence here. In fact, the only argument I know that claims God is necessary is the ontological argument, which has been discussed on this board already already. What this guy is saying is not the ontological argument.

Yeah, I meant his basic idea is used as an argument for god. These kind of people claim god exists because he's the 'greatest good', but it's obvious god woulf have to be a total asshole, so they claim being an asshole is the greatest good. Um, yeah.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-21 10:00am

It's actually shocking how many so-called philosophers believe that they've logically proven the existence of God. I remember once thumbing through "Philosophy for dummies" in the bookstore just for fun, and there was a whole section about proofs for God's existence and how nobody with a true understanding of philosophy has ever been able to put a dent in them

I felt like writing the authors to tell them they're idiots.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-02-21 10:02am

Darth Wong wrote:It's actually shocking how many so-called philosophers believe that they've logically proven the existence of God. I remember once thumbing through "Philosophy for dummies" in the bookstore just for fun, and there was a whole section about proofs for God's existence and how nobody with a true understanding of philosophy has ever been able to put a dent in them

I felt like writing the authors to tell them they're idiots.

Well, the cover did say it was for 'dummies'. Did you expect anything else?

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-02-21 10:45am

Darth Wong wrote:It's actually shocking how many so-called philosophers believe that they've logically proven the existence of God. I remember once thumbing through "Philosophy for dummies" in the bookstore just for fun, and there was a whole section about proofs for God's existence and how nobody with a true understanding of philosophy has ever been able to put a dent in them

I felt like writing the authors to tell them they're idiots.

Well, it is Philosophy for Dummies.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-02-21 10:48am

Lagmonster wrote:I pulled this from a guy on a Christian web board; it was so funny I had to share. This guy believes, in short, that God predetermines EVERYTHING, good and bad, and causes evil and misfortune to happen to us because it's part of his plan. This was his coup de grace:

I happen to have a disability, and I give all the credit for it (not the blame) to God. To make a long story short, through a botched operation on my spine I lost all the feeling, and some of the control, in my left leg from the hips down. I know that God used that operation to take away my leg, my ability to run, to drive, etc., for His greater purpose. After the operation I was bedridden for months, and had time to study and to pray like I never had before. Through that study and prayer my relationship with God was strengthened, and I was given the tools needed to help win my girlfriend to Christ. Praise God!

I have been forced to 'slow down', to reevaluate my goals, my gifts, and my relationships with all those around me. I have been given time to study, to pray, to preach that would not have been available otherwise.
Should God take credit for disabilities? Absolutely. What is it that He cannot do?
So, remember, kids: God predetermines everything and is responsible for everything, good or bad! No matter what you do to them, it's God's Will! So CRACK baseball bats against their bodies! Steal their cash! Screw their wives! Whatever we do, God intended it to happen and fundies have to accept it! Whee!

Are you SURE the author is not being sarcastic? It seems too dumb to be true.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-21 10:48am

Ted C wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:It's actually shocking how many so-called philosophers believe that they've logically proven the existence of God. I remember once thumbing through "Philosophy for dummies" in the bookstore just for fun, and there was a whole section about proofs for God's existence and how nobody with a true understanding of philosophy has ever been able to put a dent in them

I felt like writing the authors to tell them they're idiots.
Well, it is Philosophy for Dummies.

Perhaps they should have re-titled it "Philosophy by dummies."

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-02-21 11:29am

Darth Wong wrote:
Ted C wrote: Well, it is Philosophy for Dummies.
Perhaps they should have re-titled it "Philosophy by dummies."

You could suggest that to the publisher.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-02-21 11:34am

Darth Gojira wrote:Are you SURE the author is not being sarcastic? It seems too dumb to be true.

Exceedingly sure. I've debated him on the issue of predetermination before. He honestly believes it's all good, and was congratulated by others for his optimism.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-21 12:18pm

Lagmonster wrote: Exceedingly sure. I've debated him on the issue of predetermination before. He honestly believes it's all good, and was congratulated by others for his optimism.

"Whats the defenition of an optomist....someone that doesnt know all the facts yet."

This guy seems to be a thick as two short planks.....as for someones worry about fundies shooting people and then saying its gods plans....IIRC its happened on more than a few occasions.....

Sektor31 · Post by **Sektor31** » 2003-02-21 01:13pm

Gotta love Calvinism.

I'll just go buy a fusion bomb and set it off in the capital. When they arrest me, I'll say it was all God's plan.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-02-21 03:16pm

I love it when I hear fundies use this arguement, because it leaves only two options. If everything is a part of God's plan, then God is either incompetent or sadistic. How else would you explain why an all powerful God would create a system where the vast majority of people would suffer for eternity?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-21 03:28pm

Alex Moon wrote:I love it when I hear fundies use this arguement, because it leaves only two options. If everything is a part of God's plan, then God is either incompetent or sadistic. How else would you explain why an all powerful God would create a system where the vast majority of people would suffer for eternity?

[fundie]Duh, it's God's mysterious ways. Just because I'm too stupid to explain it, doesn't mean it isn't true.[/fundie]

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-21 03:30pm

sadistic.

which, of course, means you can achevie anything. cuz your damned anyway!

^_^

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-02-21 03:30pm

neoolong wrote:
Alex Moon wrote:I love it when I hear fundies use this arguement, because it leaves only two options. If everything is a part of God's plan, then God is either incompetent or sadistic. How else would you explain why an all powerful God would create a system where the vast majority of people would suffer for eternity?
[fundie]Duh, it's God's mysterious ways. Just because I'm too stupid to explain it, doesn't mean it isn't true.[/fundie]

LOL!

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-02-21 03:32pm

Alex Moon wrote:I love it when I hear fundies use this arguement, because it leaves only two options. If everything is a part of God's plan, then God is either incompetent or sadistic. How else would you explain why an all powerful God would create a system where the vast majority of people would suffer for eternity?

The worst is when they throw in omnisience. Then they have to admit that god, despite knowing how everything would progress, created the world in the way it ended up. which means he knew Lucifer would betray him, he knew Adamn and Eve would betray him, he knew he'd create all these people he'd have to kill in the flood, all the people in far-off regions who would live and die without ever hearing about Judaism or Christianity, and the world ends up getting destroyed by Jesus and Satan. So what's the fucking point? Don't they act like we here for god to test us? Why would god create something when he knows the whole miserable, destructive outcome?

Answer: he's a fucking asshole, and he just wants to make stuff to be destroyed. what a spoiled brat.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » 2003-02-21 03:35pm

See, and I find that interesting. Whilst I never made a study of 'Proofs of God' I rember following the basically excellent Cogito right up to the last... where he basically abandons his earlier methods and 'proves' God with a fairly nice little tautology.

No doubt Descartes was simply trying to survive the potential wrath of the church, but I had been given to understand Descartes' was one of the 'better' proofs of God in philosophy... Causing me to question any book that claims the philisophical proofs of god iron-clad.

Neko001 · Post by **Neko001** » 2003-02-22 01:56am

*cough* No.

Sure, you're all atheists here, and you're gonna bash me for this, but here goes.
[Flame shield on]

What I believe is God basically created the world with random functions every now and them, say volcanoes, earthquakes, etc., and just created Adam and Eve. What goes on after that is completely our fault.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-02-22 02:04am

Neko001 wrote:*cough* No.

Sure, you're all atheists here, and you're gonna bash me for this, but here goes.
[Flame shield on]

What I believe is God basically created the world with random functions every now and them, say volcanoes, earthquakes, etc., and just created Adam and Eve. What goes on after that is completely our fault.

Letting the little kids wreck all the havoc they want

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-02-22 01:39pm

I wonder what fundies like that have for a daily routine...

7:00 AM: I woke up, rolled out of bed, and hit my head on the nightstand, but it's all good, since God wanted it to happen.
7:45 AM: I arrived at work, and got laid off. However, it's all part of God's plan, I know it.
6:00 PM: Going home, a turtle but my nuts off. I'm seriously beginning to doubt that it was God's will. After all, why wouldn't he want me to reproduce and have several kids that would follow him?

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-02-22 01:42pm

Neko001 wrote:*cough* No.

Sure, you're all atheists here, and you're gonna bash me for this, but here goes.
[Flame shield on]

What I believe is God basically created the world with random functions every now and them, say volcanoes, earthquakes, etc., and just created Adam and Eve. What goes on after that is completely our fault.

And what does your personal, irrational belief system have to do with anything? Around here, we expect people to back up their claims, not simply state "I believe" and expect people to swallow that.

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A fundie declares misfortune is God's plan

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