What plot holes are in the original trilogy

[Wyrm]

Then he's not using "energy" the way that it is understood to mean, so his argument is literally about nothing.

[Darth Yan]

he also said that obi wan must have been seen in a census, ignoring that he lived in the middle of a desert surrounded by murderous sand people. I doubt anyone would know of his existence

[Srelex]

Indeed. Hell, even assuming that the Empire did bother to census a shithole crime-ruled rock like Tatooine, he could have just not bothered and the Empire would be none the wiser.

[Darth Yan]

He thought luke did taxes as well

Also, why would the empire do a census.

[Srelex]

Same reason as anyone else. The real question is why the Empire would bother doing a census on a shithole world ruled by criminals where most of the population wouldn't give a hoot in the first place.

[dworkin]

I'm wondering at the concept of a census being taken in Tatooine. Imagine the poor SOB sent to check the irregularities.

Census official: Um, Mr Jabba, there are a few irregularities here.
Jabba: Ooba, wooda, wooda?
Translator: What irregularities?
CO: It says here that you are a shipper of moisture generator parts running a business with 4 employees and an annual income of 30,000 credits.
J: Nooda booda bumba
T: That is true.
CO: Then what's all this? (the Official waves to take in Jabba's palce, complete with guards, cronies, hangers on, band and dancers)
J: Balwamba, moogo, nadda
T: This is a celebration party, it is Huttmass
CO: And are you aware that one of youre employees, a Mr Fett is a wanted criminal in most civilised systems?
J: Kodo, modo dooba.
T: He seemed okay to me...

Or

CO: There are some problems with the census here.
Local commander: Like what?
CO: Under number of indiginous sapients you've written down 'Lots'
LC: So?
CO: That's not a very precise number.
LC: I feel it's an improvement on my predecessors estimate
CO: Which was?
LC: 'I don't care'
CO: What!
LC: 'I don't care', look, the local Tat indig is a nasty barbarian that likes to shoot outsiders first and pick over your smoldering corpse later. They know the desert, we dont and frankly we dont have the manpower beyond the few squads at the spaceport. You wanna count them, bring in a light mechanised legion, count the bodies and multiply by 3.
CO: There's also talk of a wizard or Jedi out in the desert...
LC: Hah, don't belive everything the locals tell you and whatever you do, don't pay for it. They'll have you belive Lord Vader grew up here next or something.
CO: Did he?
LC: You really are an idiot you know.

[Darth Yan]

he also claimed that star trek adresses the limits of ftl. I nearly laughed at that

[Srelex]

Er...how? Did he bother to explain? Let me guess: 'lol, it takez dem longer!'

[Darth Yan]

no it was more that there was seen to be dilithium shortages. Also, how would it be possible to use ftl without infinite energy.

[Darth Yan]

After receiving commands from a ship's pilot via paralight system, the process of a hyperspace jump began with the collection of gamma radiation by the field guide. A motivator would build up and modify the energy in a fusion generator through several kilometers of looped superconducting wire. To enter hyperspace, the hyperdrive's horizontal boosters would provide energy to the ionization chamber to begin ignition that would release the radiation, causing ripples in the time-space matrix and allowing the ship to propel off the ripples into hyperspace. Inertial dampers were used to protect the ship, crew, and cargo from being crushed by the tremendous acceleration of the jump. Once in hyperspace, a null quantum field generator helped stabilize the vessel and kept it from prematurely emerging from the alternate dimension. Shields also protected the ship from fatal collisions with interstellar gas and dark matter particles. To prevent the relativistic passing of time while in hyperspace, starships used stasis fields attuned to hyperdrive levels to keep organic onboard crews or cargoes "in time" with the standard galactic dimension.

Apparently this is how hyperdrive is supposed to work. would this require infinite energy, and would it work.

[Wyrm]

Technobabble, but nothing in that description requires infinite energy at any point.

[Darth Yan]

Secondly, one cannot continuously accelerate to FTL speeds via going from STL over c, because the kinetic (and therefore total) energy of the particle approaches a vertical asymptote for a massive particle. FTL cannot be bought at any price with raw acceleration. If, however, you go instantly from two speeds of equal energy but on opposite sides of the "barrier", then the energy cost can be realistic and possibly 0. What we lack is a theory that correlates superluminal speed to total energy of the particle.

can you please explain in layman's terms

[Darth Yoshi]

According to the theory of relativity, an object's mass increases with velocity, meaning that the faster you go, the more energy you have to expend more energy to continue accelerating. However, as an objects velocity approaches c, its mass sharply climbs, so that any object that is traveling at c would, regardless of rest mass, have a mass that is infinite. If we were to be deliberately obtuse and pretend that infinity was a number, that still means that the object would need infinite energy to accelerate past c. In other words, not happening.

[Darth Yan]

exactly. so they use technobabble to work around it. all sci fi series do it.

[Darth Yan]

would dilithium allow ships to travel at the speed of light or is it utterly impossible.

[Patroklos]

The idea that the jedi were not being sought out and killed throughout the Imperial period ut to ANH is patently refuted by a great many sources. We know for a fact that Vader himself was in charge of the hunt and there is no reason to assume that ended just because of his defeat by Kenobi. We actually have no idea how many Jedi were still out there after RotS, nothing tells us Yoda and Kenobi were the only survivors up to that point and it would be stupid to assume that.

That fact that Vader wouldn't be looking for Luke in particular is valid, but he was looking for Jedi in general and certainly his personal rival Kenobi. The idea that Vader would have failed to find Kenobi (on a planet he was connected to under his own name when he was known by the inhabitants) when specifically tasked to hunt Jedi is a plot hole, granted one that was created by the prequels.

The thing becomes much more stupid when the EU is added, because we know the entire Inquistoriate was created and active for many years hunting Jedi and they had more than enough resources to do so.

As for Luke, Vader was an important military leader and right hand man to the Emperor. His background was famous and public record. Any holojournalist with half a brain would have discovered Luke in instantly.

[Darth Yan]

i always felt that vader's hatred of his past would make him stay away, while his agents wouldn't visit because there were other places to look and no reason to assume obi was there.

[Crazedwraith]

As for Luke, Vader was an important military leader and right hand man to the Emperor. His background was famous and public record. Any holojournalist with half a brain would have discovered Luke in instantly.

What the hell? No one knew Vader's background. As far as anyone knew Anakin Skywalker was recorded as being a causality at the temple battle when Order 66 went down.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

i always felt that vader's hatred of his past would make him stay away, while his agents wouldn't visit because there were other places to look and no reason to assume obi was there.

But this moves Vader into the realm of being incompetently psychotic. He *knows* Obi-Wan is still alive, and theoretically Obi-Wan should be his biggest target. Yes, he may not like Tattoine, but if that hatred is so great that he refuses to even follow up any possible leads there... that's just incompetent. It gets magnified when you consider Palpatine, the one closest to Vader and privy to all his secrets, would obviously know about this, know about Obi, have none of Vader's hangups about the planet and still fail to check.

As for Luke, Vader was an important military leader and right hand man to the Emperor. His background was famous and public record. Any holojournalist with half a brain would have discovered Luke in instantly.

What the hell? No one knew Vader's background. As far as anyone knew Anakin Skywalker was recorded as being a causality at the temple battle when Order 66 went down.

I agree, not even taking the EU into consideration, it's strongly presented in the movies that Darth Vader is a near-mythical monster under Palpatine's command, 'Anakin Skywalker' is a practically unknown name, maybe vaguely remembered by a few older folks. There is no official connection between the two, and rumours about Vader's past are probably quashed if they grow too inconvenient. Can't have your monster being shown to once be a nice guy, after all, and can't have your monster being reminded about the times he was a nice guy, just in case he starts having second thoughts about being a monster.

[Darth Yoshi]

exactly. so they use technobabble to work around it. all sci fi series do it.

There's a mathematical principle for it that I don't remember, but if you move at sub-luminal velocities and then continuously accelerate to super-luminal velocities then logically at some point you will have to travel at c. Unless the technobabble essentially invokes "reality break" it still wouldn't work. What FTL methods like hyperdrive do is technobabble their way to instant superluminal velocity, so that they don't ever actually travel at c. That is, the velocity graph would show a jump discontinuity at the moment that the drive is engaged.

would dilithium allow ships to travel at the speed of light or is it utterly impossible.

Considering that dilithium is a fictional material? Yeah, not happening. I suppose that in universe it might have "reality break" properties, but we really don't know enough about it to say.

I agree, not even taking the EU into consideration, it's strongly presented in the movies that Darth Vader is a near-mythical monster under Palpatine's command, 'Anakin Skywalker' is a practically unknown name, maybe vaguely remembered by a few older folks. There is no official connection between the two, and rumours about Vader's past are probably quashed if they grow too inconvenient. Can't have your monster being shown to once be a nice guy, after all, and can't have your monster being reminded about the times he was a nice guy, just in case he starts having second thoughts about being a monster.

To add to this, if there had been any inkling that Vader had in fact once been Anakin Skywalker then the ESB reveal wouldn't have blindsided Luke the way it did.

[Patroklos]

As for Luke, Vader was an important military leader and right hand man to the Emperor. His background was famous and public record. Any holojournalist with half a brain would have discovered Luke in instantly.

What the hell? No one knew Vader's background. As far as anyone knew Anakin Skywalker was recorded as being a causality at the temple battle when Order 66 went down.

Where are you getting that nobody knew Vader's background? There is no reason to hide it, his status as a hero of the Republic and slayer of the rebellious Jedi would be an tremendous tool for bothVader and Palpantine to use to their advantage.

If you think Vader just materialized out of thin air to become a leading member of court and the the Emperors right hand man then we are left with evil cartoon cackling again. That might work for a shaddow muscle goon like Darth Maul, but Vader was front and center from day one.

If Ben Kenobi could figure it out any of a thousand influential figures from the Clone wars who served on into the Empire and who Anakin as hero would have been well known to should have done so as well. Tarkin certainly did. But again, there was no reason to hide it.

To add to this, if there had been any inkling that Vader had in fact once been Anakin Skywalker then the ESB reveal wouldn't have blindsided Luke the way it did.

Thats just another plot whole. You are right, Luke should have figured this all out via StarGoogle as soon as he entered mainstream galactic circles. At the very least someone from the Clone War days like Dodanna or Mothma should have said "Skywalker, our new JEDI KNIGHT hero....where have I heard that name before...."

To Lukes credit before then he apparently didn't even know who Vader was in his contemporary roll let alone a hero from a war decades earlier. I can forgive that, most people probably can't name half Obamas cabinet.

[adam_grif]

If you think Vader just materialized out of thin air to become a leading member of court and the the Emperors right hand man then we are left with evil cartoon cackling again. That might work for a shaddow muscle goon like Darth Maul, but Vader was front and center from day one.

In the absence of any evidence as to whether he appeared from nothing or was known to be Annakin Skywalker, should we assume that he wasn't, or that he was, and that this is a plot hole? One of these creates a plot hole for no reason, and the other doesn't.

So we assume he wasn't known to be Anny.

[Patroklos]

It creates a plot hole either way. If we assume he is an unknown then how the hell did he become an mover and shaker overnight considering people like Tarkin were in fact his seniors up to at least ANH? Nobody wondered, including the very many rival factions to Vader within the Empire, where this guy came from? It makes no sense, or reduces the plot to cartoony mustashe twirling level villians.

[adam_grif]

He's the Emperor's right hand man. He's not an elected official. The movies not explicitly telling you how things happened isn't a "plot hole".

[Darth Yan]

I remeber in Dark lord that there were rumors that he was one of dooku's men. Also, the burns would have connected him to mustafar, which was a covert mission (if it was known that anakin had murdered the council without trial that would have been hard to explain)