For fun only.

[kilopi505]

Guys, I wanna ask a very stupid and silly what if just for suriosity's sake. You can ignore it if you want to.

What I wanna ask is: Is there any sci-fi and fantasy non-human military force that can be defeated or at least fought to a draw by armies from Earth's history, from the ancient past, starting at the Battle of Megiddo (15th century B.C.) to the end of the First World War.

Part 1:
If it's impossible to do so without any magic or technological upgrades or a mix of the two, then please add them to the armies mentioned, so long as the basic equipment of each man and army is still unchanged in spirit.

For example, The Roman Legionaire get's his shield (what ever it's called) upgraded to withstand...Covenant plasma weapons and Star Wars blasters. Or better yet, replace it with the shields used in HALO. His Gladius (I think that's the name of the short sword) gets upgraded with magic, to cut through ANY biological matter, so...anyways... and his pila (the throwing spear) can be fitted to an atlatl (can it be done?) so the range of the ranged weapons increase. Oh and let's not forget magical infinite ammo.

And part two of this funny topic.
Let's pit the combined armies of...all the armies that mankind has ever raised in it's history vs. these sci-fi opponents. Just how many people is that? Would this be the first case the Zerg from Starcraft gets zerg rushed? And the Bugs too? Would the Klingons and the Narns love being pitted against this gigantic army? Will Napoleon and Ceasar and Alexander the Great and all the military greats of our history outsmart and outnumber Sauron at the battle of the Black Gate? Will the Orcs of Warhammer 40k actually stop for a moment to think about the sheer ridiculity of this scenario? What will happen?

[Purple]

Well, not that I encourage this but the Klingon's would probably be defeated by the Romans.

From all we see of their most recent exploits (like the boarding of DS9) they seem to rush into battle with those sword things. And under those conditions a well trained and disciplined Roman formation might actually be capable of crushing them. As long as they don't whip up their disruptors.

And even with their fancy high tech equipment any Star Trek ground army (if we remove orbital support and their transporters) would be crushed by any sort of organized armed force. At this time, I have in my head images of Mongolian horse archers running circles around redshirts that can't aim their phasers strait and WW1 vintage cannons doing all sorts of horror on the poor saps. I mean for crying out loud they don't even have helmets.

Other SF universes might be tougher thou.

[Captain Seafort]

Well, not that I encourage this but the Klingon's would probably be defeated by the Romans.

Not a chance. If the OP were to limit the argument to ground forces only, then there are a lot of sci-fi forces that would get soundly thumped by a lot of historical armies, but as soon as magic-tech spaceships (or hard sci-fi ships with more-or-less routine interplanetary travel) get involved, Earth gets flattened - if all else fails they can start dropping rocks on the offending army.

Specifically regarding the Klingons, they not only have orbital fire support available, but they've been known to obliterate biospheres if it helps them achieve their objectives ("The Chase").

[Purple]

I specifically stated:

(if we remove orbital support and their transporters)

But yes the OP really needs to enter that as a condition or there is no contest.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Klingons can shoot Romans with their fucking laser guns. They can have shuttle ships in the atmosphere shitting high-yield weapons. Their bat'lehs have trigger guards, even, which makes them way better than phasers. Didn't they use mortars, once? Nuclear weapons certainly isn't beyond them. They don't need ships in space to fuck people up. Don't these people use black holes to power their ships?

[NecronLord]

Don't these people use black holes to power their ships?

That's the Romulans.

[Shroom Man 777]

I thought they used somewhat similar tech? Aren't their starships similar?

I know very little of Trek though. The new movie was pretty cool.

[Aaron]

Guys, I wanna ask a very stupid and silly what if just for suriosity's sake. You can ignore it if you want to.

What I wanna ask is: Is there any sci-fi and fantasy non-human military force that can be defeated or at least fought to a draw by armies from Earth's history, from the ancient past, starting at the Battle of Megiddo (15th century B.C.) to the end of the First World War.

Part 1:
If it's impossible to do so without any magic or technological upgrades or a mix of the two, then please add them to the armies mentioned, so long as the basic equipment of each man and army is still unchanged in spirit.

For example, The Roman Legionaire get's his shield (what ever it's called) upgraded to withstand...Covenant plasma weapons and Star Wars blasters. Or better yet, replace it with the shields used in HALO. His Gladius (I think that's the name of the short sword) gets upgraded with magic, to cut through ANY biological matter, so...anyways... and his pila (the throwing spear) can be fitted to an atlatl (can it be done?) so the range of the ranged weapons increase. Oh and let's not forget magical infinite ammo.

And part two of this funny topic.
Let's pit the combined armies of...all the armies that mankind has ever raised in it's history vs. these sci-fi opponents. Just how many people is that? Would this be the first case the Zerg from Starcraft gets zerg rushed? And the Bugs too? Would the Klingons and the Narns love being pitted against this gigantic army? Will Napoleon and Ceasar and Alexander the Great and all the military greats of our history outsmart and outnumber Sauron at the battle of the Black Gate? Will the Orcs of Warhammer 40k actually stop for a moment to think about the sheer ridiculity of this scenario? What will happen?

If you restrict the sci-fi forces to ground only then theres a list that could be engaged successfully by WWI armies (especially near the end). Universes like:

Starship Troopers (movie)
Star Trek
nBSG
Maybe S:AAB

All lack any substantial armour, ballistic weapons and NBC kit/weapons. It's their air and space power that gives them the advantage.

[Stofsk]

S:AAB does have armour, we see what appears to be a tank or IFV in the episode 'Pearly'. S:AAB would probably fare the best out of all those examples.

[Aaron]

S:AAB does have armour, we see what appears to be a tank or IFV in the episode 'Pearly'. S:AAB would probably fare the best out of all those examples.

Yeah I remember that one. So I went with "maybe" because they are definitely the most most capable but I don't have an idea of what they have groundside other then they have it, no idea of availability.

[Aaron]

If you restrict the sci-fi forces to ground only then theres a list that could be engaged successfully by WWI armies (especially near the end). Universes like:

Starship Troopers (movie)
Star Trek
nBSG
Maybe S:AAB

All lack any substantial armour, ballistic weapons and NBC kit/weapons. It's their air and space power that gives them the advantage.

Ghetto edit: S:AAB has pretty much all of this but not sure how much of it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

S:AAB does have armour, we see what appears to be a tank or IFV in the episode 'Pearly'. S:AAB would probably fare the best out of all those examples.

Yeah, other than the unbelievably stupid practice of sometimes using their space fighter pilots as infantry...

[Aaron]

Yeah but I think they saved themselves with the line "*somethingorother Air Commando Group". In other words they were SF, dumb yeah, but not as bad as some universes. The Earth forces do actually have their own Navy, AF and Army.

[Captain Seafort]

I don't think nBSG deserves to be on the list either. While we didn't see any decent ground forces, we also didn't see what their ground forces are meant to look like. A series based on a US aircraft carrier escorting various oil tankers, cruse ships and sundry extras would give a pretty poor impression of the the US Army.

[Stofsk]

S:AAB does have armour, we see what appears to be a tank or IFV in the episode 'Pearly'. S:AAB would probably fare the best out of all those examples.

Yeah I remember that one. So I went with "maybe" because they are definitely the most most capable but I don't have an idea of what they have groundside other then they have it, no idea of availability.

I blame it on Fox for killing the show before we could find out what else they had (with a much larger budget too).

S:AAB does have armour, we see what appears to be a tank or IFV in the episode 'Pearly'. S:AAB would probably fare the best out of all those examples.

Yeah, other than the unbelievably stupid practice of sometimes using their space fighter pilots as infantry...

Take it up with the US Marines.

[Aaron]

I don't think nBSG deserves to be on the list either. While we didn't see any decent ground forces, we also didn't see what their ground forces are meant to look like. A series based on a US aircraft carrier escorting various oil tankers, cruse ships and sundry extras would give a pretty poor impression of the the US Army.

Look, how can I make my digs at Ron Moore here, with you pointing out my obvious errors?

[Captain Seafort]

Hey, you know how bad I am for nitpicking holes in arguments.

[Aaron]

Take it up with the US Marines.

Eh, technically their there to coordinate CAS. A bit different but I take your point.

Hey, you know how bad I am for nitpicking holes in arguments

I know dude.

[Stofsk]

Take it up with the US Marines.

Eh, technically their there to coordinate CAS. A bit different but I take your point.

Oh hey I'm not arguing it isn't at the very least questionable. It's a bit strange to have US Marines flying space fighters one episode then fighting on the ground the next. But the point is for Marcus Aurelius, and you even said in a post above, that there actually is a dedicated army and a dedicated air force, and it just so happens that the US Marines have this weird obsession that no matter what primary military occupational speciality, a Marine is first and foremost a rifleman.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, not that I encourage this but the Klingon's would probably be defeated by the Romans.

From all we see of their most recent exploits (like the boarding of DS9) they seem to rush into battle with those sword things. And under those conditions a well trained and disciplined Roman formation might actually be capable of crushing them. As long as they don't whip up their disruptors.

Actually, while the boarding of DS9 is infamous for its melee combat, a number of the Klingon borders did have guns.

And even with their fancy high tech equipment any Star Trek ground army (if we remove orbital support and their transporters) would be crushed by any sort of organized armed force. At this time, I have in my head images of Mongolian horse archers running circles around redshirts that can't aim their phasers strait

What about using wide-beam stun mode?

[Srelex]

Actually, while the boarding of DS9 is infamous for its melee combat, a number of the Klingon borders did have guns.

Hell, I remember entire squads of disruptor-armed Klingons doing things like laying down suppressive fire. I think the whole 'lol, Klingons using melee only' is a bit exagerrated.

[Aaron]

What about using wide-beam stun mode?

Thats not going to do you a lot of good when your enemy has firearms with ranges approaching a KM and artillery in the tens. OK not so applicable to the Mongolians but phasers don't have trigger guards, so the Redshirts will probably blow off their own face before it gets to the shooting bit.

[The Romulan Republic]

Thats not going to do you a lot of good when your enemy has firearms with ranges approaching a KM and artillery in the tens. OK not so applicable to the Mongolians but phasers don't have trigger guards, so the Redshirts will probably blow off their own face before it gets to the shooting bit.

Yeah, I was referring to the Mongolians.

As for the trigger guards, I can't think of a single instance in canon where the lack of them has caused a Federation soldier to be wounded by their own weapon.

[Aaron]

I was trying to make fun of the crowd that goes "hurr hurr no trigger guards, SF has shitty weapons."

[Stofsk]

I think Aaron is joking dude.

EDIT ARGH INSTAPOSTED