For fun only.

[kilopi505]

If it's impossible to do so without any magic or technological upgrades or a mix of the two, then please add them to the armies mentioned, so long as the basic equipment of each man and army is still unchanged in spirit.

For example, The Roman Legionaire get's his shield (what ever it's called) upgraded to withstand...Covenant plasma weapons and Star Wars blasters. Or better yet, replace it with the shields used in HALO. His Gladius (I think that's the name of the short sword) gets upgraded with magic, to cut through ANY biological matter, so...anyways... and his pila (the throwing spear) can be fitted to an atlatl (can it be done?) so the range of the ranged weapons increase. Oh and let's not forget magical infinite ammo.



People. It IS alright to just add magic or technology wanks to the aforementioned human armies, as long as the equipment used are still the same in spirit. And the magic and tech you guys think of are present in other literary works. You guys have all of fictiondom to get ideas from.

[Captain Seafort]

Hell, I remember entire squads of disruptor-armed Klingons doing things like laying down suppressive fire. I think the whole 'lol, Klingons using melee only' is a bit exagerrated.

Indeed, and as Shroom pointed out above, the Klingons have one of the better-equipped Trek armies - they've got mortars (albeit pretty weak ones), seen in "Nor the Battle to the Strong"

[Bakustra]

Phasers and disruptors do have insta-kill settings. Even if we assume that metallic armor interferes with it, full-body metal armor doesn't start appearing until more than halfway through the range of time periods and was still expensive for a long time. So they have much higher efficiency and have the advantage of accuracy against closely-packed formations. Even the relative handful of plate-armored knights could be handled by simply turning up the phaser dial and/or focusing fire. It's only around the Thirty Years' War that this becomes less useful, and it's a loss starting in the 1860s and massed field artillery, (but not because of deficiencies on the phaser end) but Trek would do very well just with redshirts for a long time.

People. It IS alright to just add magic or technology wanks to the aforementioned human armies, as long as the equipment used are still the same in spirit. And the magic and tech you guys think of are present in other literary works. You guys have all of fictiondom to get ideas from.

That isn't quite as fun, though.

[Stofsk]

Well Starfleet has mortars too, and apparently very powerful ones at that. Reference: 'Arena' TOS

[Aaron]

Yeah but mortars don't have much of a range until you get to huge ones, like ones that are mounted on tank chassis. That little one Kirk used would probably not reach out past 5km, if half that.

[Bakustra]

Well Starfleet has mortars too, and apparently very powerful ones at that. Reference: 'Arena' TOS

Exactly. That would keep them in the running for longer (up until WWI probably), but phasers alone are a ridiculous advantage, in particular for their effect on morale. Instant death from a beam of light would tend to suggest supernatural powers, in particular with dustbuster-style phasers that don't look like a weapon at all.

[Srelex]

Indeed, and as Shroom pointed out above, the Klingons have one of the better-equipped Trek armies - they've got mortars (albeit pretty weak ones), seen in "Nor the Battle to the Strong"

Didn't the Klingons also get tanks in one of the ST games? I know that would be non-canon, but just wondering.

[Aaron]

Theres reference to some sort of Klingon assault vehicle and a Cardassion MICV, in DS9 but all we've ever seen is the space f-150 Argo.

[kilopi505]

Ok...can I add more advantages to our historical comrades?

If the answer is yes, then can I add contemporary (as in military guys from our time, as in right this moment) military personnel as advisors to the humans armies? And I also included fantasy worlds too, not only sci-fi ones. Like I said, will Sauron's army collectively crap themselves if they see all the armies Earth has mustered in...from 1500 B.C. to World War 1 arrayed against them?

[Aaron]

Ok...can I add more advantages to our historical comrades?

If the answer is yes, then can I add contemporary (as in military guys from our time, as in right this moment) military personnel as advisors to the humans armies? And I also included fantasy worlds too, not only sci-fi ones. Like I said, will Sauron's army collectively crap themselves if they see all the armies Earth has mustered in...from 1500 B.C. to World War 1 arrayed against them?

Uh, yeah adding a military advisor from the modern age to say the Mongols isn't really going to accomplish a whole hell of a lot unless you also give them modern weapons. Not to many officers and NCOs are going to know how to adapt modern tactics to massed infantry either, the reasons they fought in that manner still remain, just upgrading a Roman sword to ROMAN POWER SWORD!!! isn't going to change that.

[Stofsk]

Yeah but mortars don't have much of a range until you get to huge ones, like ones that are mounted on tank chassis. That little one Kirk used would probably not reach out past 5km, if half that.

Sure. Totally agree. Although, I'd like to think that if they have mortars, perhaps they have other stuff we just never see because it's not relevant to trekking across the stars.

Or, they rely on ortillery and air/space supremacy. Perhaps you don't need artillery pieces so much when you can have a starship in orbit stun people or phaser them into oblivion or use photorps to level cities. Transporters would also give fantastic mobility to the point where you might not even need transport vehicles.

Well Starfleet has mortars too, and apparently very powerful ones at that. Reference: 'Arena' TOS

Exactly. That would keep them in the running for longer (up until WWI probably), but phasers alone are a ridiculous advantage, in particular for their effect on morale. Instant death from a beam of light would tend to suggest supernatural powers, in particular with dustbuster-style phasers that don't look like a weapon at all.

I agree. Phasering people into oblivion would be a huge psychological blow as well as physical one. Tricorders would also give star trek guys early warning and intel.

[The Romulan Republic]

Transporters would also give fantastic mobility to the point where you might not even need transport vehicles.

Except in those instances where something interferes with the transporter.

[Aaron]

Meh, only to the earlier ages I think. Once you get around WWI you have people being blasted into meaty bits and generally dieing in far more horrific manners then being disappeared. Not to say that you won't get the odd route at the beginning but I think people overstate this.

Except in those instances where something interferes with the transporter.

Yeah, we've already established that for any of this to work, you have to remove ships, air support and transporters. Otherwise its just a pointless exercise in masturbation, for the Trek side.

[Aaron]

Sure. Totally agree. Although, I'd like to think that if they have mortars, perhaps they have other stuff we just never see because it's not relevant to trekking across the stars.

Or, they rely on ortillery and air/space supremacy. Perhaps you don't need artillery pieces so much when you can have a starship in orbit stun people or phaser them into oblivion or use photorps to level cities. Transporters would also give fantastic mobility to the point where you might not even need transport vehicles.

Thats probably why we see what we do in ST, authors intent aside having orbital superiority is obviously a tremendous advantage.

[Bakustra]

Transporters would also give fantastic mobility to the point where you might not even need transport vehicles.

Except in those instances where something interferes with the transporter.

Most of those are reliant on technology that won't exist for practically all of this period- the transformer wasn't invented until the 1880s, and those models probably aren't powerful enough to seriously interfere. They can just avoid stormy areas, seeing as they have tricorders and a ship in orbit to tell them to take cover and hold out for 305+/-2 minutes until the storm fades.

Meh, only to the earlier ages I think. Once you get around WWI you have people being blasted into meaty bits and generally dieing in far more horrific manners then being disappeared. Not to say that you won't get the odd route at the beginning but I think people overstate this.

Well, yeah. That is mainly a factor of undisciplined armies- which most armies were up until the 1500s and 1600s. The exceptions, like the Romans and Chinese armies, would be more of a problem, but there still is the wide-angle stun setting available as well.

[Stofsk]

Transporters would also give fantastic mobility to the point where you might not even need transport vehicles.

Except in those instances where something interferes with the transporter.

Dude, that is seriously up there with 'lol phasers have no trigger guards lololol'. Plus I'm pretty much nothing but a TOS fan, so I can't think of an instance where transporters were seriously interfered with except in 'The Enemy Within'.

And Aaron is right, transporters aren't part of the equation but for other reasons though, I only brought it up because I was discussing something else entirely.

Sure. Totally agree. Although, I'd like to think that if they have mortars, perhaps they have other stuff we just never see because it's not relevant to trekking across the stars.

Or, they rely on ortillery and air/space supremacy. Perhaps you don't need artillery pieces so much when you can have a starship in orbit stun people or phaser them into oblivion or use photorps to level cities. Transporters would also give fantastic mobility to the point where you might not even need transport vehicles.

Thats probably why we see what we do in ST, authors intent aside having orbital superiority is obviously a tremendous advantage.

Yeah. You could beam troops where they need to go, you can beam down equipment and supplies and form a field HQ, and I'd be willing to bet having the starship remain in orbit would probably prevent the landing sights from coming under attack as well.

[kilopi505]

Ok...can I add more advantages to our historical comrades?

If the answer is yes, then can I add contemporary (as in military guys from our time, as in right this moment) military personnel as advisors to the humans armies? And I also included fantasy worlds too, not only sci-fi ones. Like I said, will Sauron's army collectively crap themselves if they see all the armies Earth has mustered in...from 1500 B.C. to World War 1 arrayed against them?

Uh, yeah adding a military advisor from the modern age to say the Mongols isn't really going to accomplish a whole hell of a lot unless you also give them modern weapons. Not to many officers and NCOs are going to know how to adapt modern tactics to massed infantry either, the reasons they fought in that manner still remain, just upgrading a Roman sword to ROMAN POWER SWORD!!! isn't going to change that.

Umm...then at what point will things change? I mean, I was pretty sure adding magic and tech to historical units would allow them to...believe it or not, fight even freaking Star Wars armies to a draw or a pyrrhic victory. The operative word here is WAS. Oh well. Anyone can dream right? Hahaha. *sigh*


P.S.
As for my idea on this hypothetical, magically and technologically wanked up coalition of historical armies is gonna face the Empire, this is what I thought about how to do it: Magical teleportation of battalion, or maybe division sized units from Earth by wizards with the aid of telescopes such as used by Galileo and Copernicus, with the boarders for example being British redcoats and Union Yanks and Confederates rebels armed with muskets magically turned into railguns along with (don't ask how) magically infinite ammo, and Greek Spartans and Romans (and every other army that has shields, swords spears and arrows) armed with those big shields made of material that takes hundreds of blaster shots to melt and swords and spears enchanted to cut and stab through any physical material and magically guided arrows (or maybe rocket propelled guided arrows?) with the same enchantments with the same enchantments onto many, many Star Destroyers. Thus...irritating the Empire enough for it to use Planet Killer weaponry (Death Star) or a BDZ on an opponent that should never have even merited the particular honor of being attacked from space, or with sci-fi weapons in the first place.

[The Romulan Republic]

Dude, that is seriously up there with 'lol phasers have no trigger guards lololol'. Plus I'm pretty much nothing but a TOS fan, so I can't think of an instance where transporters were seriously interfered with except in 'The Enemy Within'.

No, not comparable at all. Maybe it happens more post-TOS, so that might be why you aren't aware of it.

And Aaron is right, transporters aren't part of the equation but for other reasons though, I only brought it up because I was discussing something else entirely.

I am and was aware of that fact.

[Aaron]

Umm...then at what point will things change? I mean, I was pretty sure adding magic and tech to historical units would allow them to...believe it or not, fight even freaking Star Wars armies to a draw or a pyrrhic victory. The operative word here is WAS. Oh well. Anyone can dream right? Hahaha. *sigh*


P.S.
As for my idea on this hypothetical, magically and technologically wanked up coalition of historical armies is gonna face the Empire, this is what I thought about how to do it: Magical teleportation of battalion, or maybe division sized units from Earth by wizards with the aid of telescopes such as used by Galileo and Copernicus, with the boarders for example being British redcoats and Union Yanks and Confederates rebels armed with muskets magically turned into railguns along with (don't ask how) magically infinite ammo, and Greek Spartans and Romans (and every other army that has shields, swords spears and arrows) armed with those big shields made of material that takes hundreds of blaster shots to melt and swords and spears enchanted to cut and stab through any physical material and magically guided arrows (or maybe rocket propelled guided arrows?) with the same enchantments with the same enchantments onto many, many Star Destroyers. Thus...irritating the Empire enough for it to use Planet Killer weaponry (Death Star) or a BDZ on an opponent that should never have even merited the particular honor of being attacked from space, or with sci-fi weapons in the first place.

You basically need (accurate) firearms and more important a means to communicate over distance with your forces. So rifles and radios, plus a bunch of assorted kit that I can't be arsed to remember or look up.

[Stofsk]

Dude, that is seriously up there with 'lol phasers have no trigger guards lololol'. Plus I'm pretty much nothing but a TOS fan, so I can't think of an instance where transporters were seriously interfered with except in 'The Enemy Within'.

No, not comparable at all.

Alright, maybe it's not totally comparable. But I meant it's comparable in the sense that it is an irrelevant criticism directed against the device in question. The instances where transporters don't work is pretty rare and in TOS, I can only think of two examples now that I've had some time, the aforementioned 'Enemy Within' episode and 'Mirror, Mirror'. The only other times transporters don't work is when shields are raised, but that's a different matter. (namely, I am pretty sure shields will block physical transport as well as dematerialisation)

Maybe it happens more post-TOS, so that might be why you aren't aware of it.

It certainly does happen post-TOS. Though I am aware of it, but generally I despise most post-TOS trek enough to dismiss it entirely. TNG wasn't too bad in this regard, because I can't think of that many instances where transporters were blocked other than by something that's analogous to shields existing. It is really annoying though, because consistency demands we include the TNG+ instances, even though they're rarely consistent with themselves let alone with TOS.

And Aaron is right, transporters aren't part of the equation but for other reasons though, I only brought it up because I was discussing something else entirely.

I am and was aware of that fact.

So if transporters don't get interfered with much at all, like in TOS, then is there any problem with using it to transport equipment and personnel quickly and directly? Note that shuttlecraft exist as a non-transporter alternative for personnel and equipment ferrying.

[lord Martiya]

If I may propose an army that could give redshirts some problem, I think Union and Confederate armies could do the job. After all, their small arms would still be muzzle-loaders for the most part, but hadn't they introduced automatic weapons?
Maybe even Napoleonic armies could do the job. At least the French one: his field artillery had grenades and the gunners had good aim and quick at reloading their guns.

Well Starfleet has mortars too, and apparently very powerful ones at that. Reference: 'Arena' TOS

Does Starfleet STILL have mortars in TNG? For I recall situation where they would have been useful yet they weren't used...

[Srelex]

Does Starfleet STILL have mortars in TNG? For I recall situation where they would have been useful yet they weren't used...

Didn't they have a fairly crappy mortar in Insurrection or something?

[Agent Sorchus]

Does Starfleet STILL have mortars in TNG? For I recall situation where they would have been useful yet they weren't used...

Didn't they have a fairly crappy mortar in Insurrection or something?

No, it was a fairly crappy bazooka direct fire thing. Pretty close to a weak grenade launcher.

[Aaron]

Far weaker then that, those guys would all have been full of shrapnel from even our smallest grenades. It just tossed them around a bit.

[kilopi505]

So...other than Star Trek, and opponents our historical armies can defeat, how would the combined historical armies, both original version and wanked up tech and magic versions fare against ones no one wanna imagine pitting it against? Like Necrons, Zerg, Bugs, Orks, the Clone and Droid armies of Star Wars, Sauron's armies, the undead from Warcraft, Posleen, Predator and things like that?

My uninformed imagination says that:

The Lee-Enfield Rifle, the Kar98 and the various machine guns, and the French 75 mm can put down a Posleen quickly. And so will Roman and Chinese ballistas. And...hmmm...arrows can be fired like an artillery, right? So if you have various calculations, and expert archers, you could fire a rain of arrows without breaking cover. And the Posleen mostly have line of sight weapons. So...yeah. It would be a costly victory for the Posleen.

Sauron is dead meat if you pit him and his armies against Julius Caesar, or Hannibal, or Alexander the Great (if their weapons are blessed at their temples, and their gods exist, I guess they could even hurt the ringwraiths). Imagine Trolls vs. French 75's, or Armstrong cannons, or...muzzle loading howitzers.

Undead, are killed again by the Mongols, Huns, or by the French cavalry charge at Agincourt, or Hannibal's and Indian war elephants, backed by lots and lots of berserk Vikings and disciplined infantry.

Against Predator...again, I see an arrow shower as seen in 300. Sheild Walls and Phalanxes backed by English and Japanese longbows, Napoleonic muzzle loaders and WW1 bolt-actions and machine guns can massacre a sizable army of them. As for Yautja...if they fight with with only melee weapons, 50-50 chance Vikings and Samurai and Spartans would win against them.

Bugs...can swords penetrate their hides?

Zerg...dead human army, but lots of dead Zergs too.

Droids and Clone army...they are actually doing Napoleonic era tactics, right? But they are facing the master of this form of warfare himself, Napoleon, and the one who defeated him, Wellington. And let's add in Stonewall Jackson and Lee. The Driods are dead. The Earth army is dead against the Clone Army.

So...anyone wanna pop the fantasy I imagined?