weemadando wrote:...and a fucking DENISON INDEPENDENT holding balance of power.
Andrew Wilkie won by miles... though looking at the numbers he got ahead on secondary votes.
I noted that he didn't use the "I was the whistle blower that told the Howard government there were no nbc bombs in Iraq" ticket again and just relied on the "I'm independent and not from a major party" which appears to be the winning concept at this election.
All people are equal but some people are more equal than others.
Wilson Tuckey shanghaied by a National. Please God let it be true.
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.
Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding. - Ron Wilson
I said it on Facebook but I might as well say it here, I'm glad the Greens have won as much as they have. They're the real winners of this election. Bob Brown also made the point that maybe we should get rid of preferential voting in favour of proportional voting. Of course, that would benefit the Greens more than anyone else so of course he's going to say that.
I'm wondering what will happen in the next couple of days.
His seat got heavily redistributed, didn't it? I think it was the only 3 cornered contest in the country, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was an intentional effort on the part of the coalition to get rid of him.
Tony Abbott as PM? Well, that's goodbye to better broadband for another 10 years, more middle class handouts and no action on climate change.
He has been on his best behavior for the last four weeks, his usual rabid right-wing Christian nuttiness is set to come out sooner or later. Worst thing is, his election has crippled the moderate wing of the Liberal party.
What a disaster.
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi
"Problem is, while the Germans have had many mea culpas and quite painfully dealt with their history, the South is still hellbent on painting themselves as the real victims. It gives them a special place in the history of assholes" - Covenant
"Over three million died fighting for the emperor, but when the war was over he pretended it was not his responsibility. What kind of man does that?'' - Saburo Sakai
He's going to be operating in minority government with a very hostile senate. The prospect of no action on broadband or climate change is disturbing but I'm not really worried about his 'mad monk' side emerging, it's still political suicide to bring it out...
Looking for silver linings - apart from Wilson - the Greens massive gains were positive, as was the fact Labor had swings for in Victoria and other southern states (as an aside if you were Ted Bailieu you'd be stringing yourself up right now, if Labor still got a swing for despite the total shitness of the Brumby gov you know you've got a problem). Chris Ulemann briefly flagged at the end of the telecast last night that one of the hidden benefits might be a diminishing of executive power and a return to old-style parliamentary politics.
Interesting, interesting times. If nothing else you'd think Labor will now finally learn the perils of putting a Welsh immigrant in charge...
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.
Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding. - Ron Wilson
The most likely outcome at this point will be either a totally hung parliament and a recall election in a few weeks or more likely a shitty compromise gov't that falls apart come July next year when the Senate changes hands.
Barry: "You've talked about stopping the boats and the taxes and the debt - what positive policy can we expect?"
Robb: [without blinking] "That is positive."
Jesus.
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.
Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding. - Ron Wilson
thejester wrote:Jesus Christ Andrew Robb on Insiders:
Barry: "You've talked about stopping the boats and the taxes and the debt - what positive policy can we expect?"
Robb: [without blinking] "That is positive."
Jesus.
I forgot about the mining tax. We need something like that to balance out the economy and stop the Dutch disease from happening. I cant believe average punters thought that getting more cash for OUR resources was a bad thing.
"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi
"Problem is, while the Germans have had many mea culpas and quite painfully dealt with their history, the South is still hellbent on painting themselves as the real victims. It gives them a special place in the history of assholes" - Covenant
"Over three million died fighting for the emperor, but when the war was over he pretended it was not his responsibility. What kind of man does that?'' - Saburo Sakai
Didn't you see the ads from the mining corps saying how it'd instantly destroy our economy?
Of course, most of our clients are mining consortiums and they are in a massive growth phase and weren't bothered at all. What you say, corps say what they want to scare people? NEVER!
Two of the independents whose vote appears crucial to forming a minority government have expressed loathing for Barnaby Joyce, one of the Coalition's most prominent frontbenchers.
While many election analysts suggest the independents, all former Nationals MPs, are more likely to side with the Coalition, Bob Katter and Tony Windsor have derided Mr Joyce; with one calling him a fool and the other labelling him a "piece of incredible unfortunateness.''
Mr Katter said he had not yet decided where his support would go, but pointed to continuing issues with former Nationals colleagues - and concerns over the Coalition's broadband policy.
He also said it was unfortunate that the Nationals leader Warren Truss "attacked me personally last night''.
''And (Nationals Senate Leader) Barnaby Joyce...a similar piece of incredible unfortunateness.''
He hoped the two other Nationals-turned-independents, Mr Windsor and Rob Oakeshott, would vote as a block to decide the nation's political future.
With just over 75 per cent of the vote counted, Labor and the coalition both hold 71 seats, with three independents and one Australian Green.
Four seats remain in doubt, the Australian Electoral Commission says.
Asked about the insulting remarks, Mr Joyce said he broad shoulders and had been called worse.
"Well, they're in a position of incredible strength so that being the case they have a shooting licence to say whatever they like at the moment," he said.
"I just hope for Australia's sake that a position of uncertainty is resolved as quickly as possible because sharemarkets opened and people have money invested, and the world's watching and we've got to try to sort this out.
"I'm happy to work with anybody who wants to make the world a better place."
Mr Katter, who was returned in the north Queensland seat of Kennedy, said he expected to meet in the next two days with the other independents.
He said they had worked together well in the past and that should continue.
He told the ABC the trio got "on very well together, we work very closely together, we have similar backgrounds and we've simply agreed that we'll walk in a room, close the door and not be taken advantage of by all you cunning media people''.
He said he'd not yet decided where his support would go but pointed to continuing issues with former Nationals colleagues.
Mr Windsor, who is on track to retain his NSW seat of New England, has said he'll gladly work with any political party but would not work with Senator Joyce, who he called a fool.
Mr Katter refused to divulge if he'd been contacted by Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott, saying only that he'd received phone calls from ''very powerful people'' who could influence the course of events. Mr Windsor revealed he had briefly spoken to Mr Abbott at 1.15am.
Mr Katter said improving the ethanol industry and broadband infrastructure were high on his agenda.
''A privatised broadband, I mean, please, don't even talk about it, privatised Telstra has been absolutely disastrous for rural Australia,'' he said.
A possible fourth independent, former Greens candidate Andrew Wilkie, along with Melbourne Greens candidate Adam Bandt, are expected to side with Labor.
- AAP
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
"Piece of incredible unfortunateness" - I love it!
On the other hand, I find the idea of the future of Australian politics being decided by a bunch of former Nationals MPs almost more disturbing than the idea of Tony Abbott as PM.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
The best outcome I can see getting out of this is the independents forcing the coalition to pick up their game on the nbn.
A scientist once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the Earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.
At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'
'You're very clever, young man, very clever,' said the old lady. 'But it's turtles all the way down.'
Outsider question: Why don't all the Liberal and National parties merge into a single party? What's the purpose of maintaining a separate existence when they've been in a coalition since the 1920s?
"Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me...God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist." -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
I think it's because the Nationals are basically the "Country Liberal Party" (there is also an actual Country Liberal Party, but they're strictly a Northern Territory Party). They tend to focus heavily on rural issues, and merging with the Liberal Party would force them to take on more issues that real people care about, which would probably decrease their support from their base and give Labor an advantage in rural electorates.
It's a case of the two parties being stronger when they specialise. The Nationals can go and do their manure thing, and if it's unpopular with people who don't smell like cows, the Liberals can always just wave it away as a "Nationals thing, and not Liberal policy". And vice versa.
Also, strictly speaking, it's not a permanent coalition. In South Australia, the State Nationals MP is in coalition with the Labor government, though that is, in part, because SA is a weird state where the Nationals don't really have a presence (the Federal Nationals didn't even contest any seats there in the last election).
Last edited by Lusankya on 2010-08-21 10:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
Archaic` wrote:Wasn't there one recent Labor state government governing in coalition with the Nationals?
Lusankya wrote:Also, strictly speaking, it's not a permanent coalition. In South Australia, the State Nationals MP is in coalition with the Labor government, though that is, in part, because SA is a weird state where the Nationals don't really have a presence (the Federal Nationals didn't even contest any seats there in the last election).
Actually, I suppose I should have paid more attention to the last election result, because South Australia no longer has any Nationals MPs. Part of the reason that the Nationals allied with Labor instead of Liberals is that the Nationals party is so minor in SA, that the Liberals can make government without their support. The coalition with Labor started when Labor had a minority government, being one seat shy of a majority, and then stuck around for the next few election cycles, because the Liberals were being crap.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
StarshipTitanic wrote:Outsider question: Why don't all the Liberal and National parties merge into a single party? What's the purpose of maintaining a separate existence when they've been in a coalition since the 1920s?
Just on a side note since Lusy chan has answered the gist of your question, sometimes they used to run candidates against each other and preference each other naturally. I don't think they do this anymore since its kind of a waste of resources.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Depending on how they think things are going to work out, having the flexibility to either run on a joint ticket or run as separate tickets is especially advantageous in the senate. IIRC, Barnaby Joyce initially won his Senate seat because the Liberals and Nationals ran on separate tickets. Whether it's generally advantageous or not depends on the polling conditions at the time, though, because running separate tickets also runs the risk of splitting the vote and losing a seat instead of gaining one.
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
The only solace I'm drawing from this clusterfuck is the success of the Greens and the fact that Abott didn't win outright and may not even be able to form a government.
StarshipTitanic wrote:Outsider question: Why don't all the Liberal and National parties merge into a single party? What's the purpose of maintaining a separate existence when they've been in a coalition since the 1920s?
They already have in Queensland, but that's unlikely to go nationwide. Theoretically although they're both conservative parties they've got some pretty major differences, mainly over the economy - as their name suggests the Liberals are ultra-free market whereas the Nats espouse protectionism. In practice the bipartisan consensus on liberalising the economy and the years of the Howard government in particular meant the Nats have seemed less and less relevant and have lost a lot of seats, mainly to the Libs (and the aforementioned independents who basically defected because of the party's refusal to stand up on key issues). That said there's been a bit of a fightback, before the last Victorian state election a lot of pundits were predicting the death of the Nats and instead they won back a couple of seats precisely because they disagreed with the Libs and treated it as a coalition, not a merger. Having Barnaby Joyce and a leader with a bit of 'tude in Warren Truss hasn't hurt either.
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.
Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding. - Ron Wilson
Warren Truss was getting absolutely zero name recognition campaigning up here pre-election, though Barnaby is a known face. The local media put it down to the LNP having very little to do with the Nats.
Aren't the Nationals in WA aligned with the Libs, rather than being in a formal Coalition? I seem to recall that the Nats contested the last state election over there as unaligned with either Libs or Labor, and then gave goverment to whoever gave them the best deal.
It'll be interesting to see if we get through a full term or not, and what the result next time around is for the Greens. Bob Brown's claiming victory and the emergence of a new force, and I'm not convinced - I think his lot got the benefit of a fairly large protest vote. Looking at the stats, most seats have swings away from the majors and towards the Greens, but the actual Green vote is still not in the same league. Assuming standard levels of political incompetence return, I wouldn't be surprised to see a fair chunk of the Green vote go back to the majors next time round. There's always the possibility that something interesting could happen, though.
I do find it rather ironic that the leader of the Nationals at the federal level is technically not a Nationals member, but a member of the LNP. Which, strictly speaking, is the Queensland branch of the Liberals and is only affiliated to the Nationals.
And he forgot stopping the waste. 
