Starcraft 2 discussion thread

[Alferd Packer]

Whenever someone gg's me, I take five seconds to queue up more guys at whatever production facilities I might have, continue my attack, then say 'gg' back. If they don't quit, well, then I just wipe them completely out.

Lately, I've just been getting a lot of quick ragequits. When I lose, I usually just gg and quit a few seconds later.

[Thanas]

I am.

[Zed]

Feel like playing a game of 1v1?

[Thanas]

Not tonight, maybe tomorrow afternoon.

[Stofsk]

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft ... EV9niTmeOU
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft ... aLBqeKd_lk
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/user/HDstarcraft ... w_w7sh6NWY
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOY2ve7zHb4

One of the funniest games I've ever seen. The last 30 seconds is like .

oh god that was fucking funny! I agree the best part is the last 30 seconds and TTone's reaction.

[CaptainChewbacca]

That was brilliant. I wouldn't have thought to drop an extractor at the last minute there.

[Lord Relvenous]

That was great! The players sitting there discussing tactics that they could use was pretty funny as well.

I've been watching TheLittleOne a lot recently. He's got some crazy fun games. I love watching him play Zerg. Two crazy games with Zerg:
Full: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncb7lHNWbnU

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0eu0VRy ... re=channel
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DP7Pn0a ... re=channel

[Thanas]

Whew. Just finished a very hard game. Enemy had perfect map control, had taken out my expansion and quite a bit of my min. line.

Only my scouting saved me - I knew he had Thors. So I build massive BCs and hunkered down behind a line of siegetanks and MMM. He tried to push, but abandoned the event after seeing how much I had there. I meanwhile built BCs in the corner of the map.

Cue me then steamrolling him with 4 BCs. By the time he transitioned to Vikings, he had already lost most of his army and his expansions and main. The vikings gave me a bit of trouble, especially when he built them out of 4 reactored starports, but I kept the BC pressure up....

then rolled him up with my MMM army. At that time he gg'd.

[Stofsk]

Thanas that sounds like a good game.

Spyder and I played two games last night which we won due to, I think anyway, better communication and planning. The first game was on Scorched Haven. I was Terran and he was Protoss. Our opposition was the same. I scouted the terran player and discovered he hadn't walled off his ramp. I withdrew my SCV, then doubled it back to build a barracks where his natural expansion would be. I quickly told Spyder to form up together and we'd blitz his base with some marines and zealots. I had maybe half a dozen, while Spyder had 4 or 5. Meanwhile the barracks I built had tech labbed up and was building reapers. When I had three done and our marine/zealot combined force was at the ramp, Spyder signaled to go and we went in. Terran had only a handful of marines defending his base so they were quickly dispatched. The reapers came in from behind and took out his scvs.

Protoss though had walled off his base, but hadn't protected his mineral line, so the reapers took them out quite quickly. But the funny thing is, both players had actually made fast expansions rather than concentrate on building forces right off the bat. This only prolonged the inevitable however, but it was a weird little 'wtf' moment because I was wondering 'why haven't we won/they gg'ed'.

Our next game was even better. I can't remember the name of the map, I think it may have been War Zone, it's a 2v2 map which has three largish ramps at each end of the map where you spawn, and two of them are blocked by crap. Anyway, again we were protoss and terran and so were they. This game was long, it lasted 37 mins, and it was won purely because we controlled the map. We were also lucky as well. Spyder went zealots and stalkers, I went marines and marauders. But we didn't rush them or anything, because these guys smartly walled off their ramp. One thing I made sure to do, and I am pretty surprised nobody does this that often in the replays that I've watched, but I always make a point of doing it: that is, I erect a series of sensor towers to give us early warning. I remembered to save the replay and I watched it afterwards, and it's clear that simply having sensor towers can deter aggression from some players. They had a force that approached one of our blocked off ramps, obviously they were going to try and destroy the crap and sneak in through a back door. Except just as they were about to move in one of my sensor towers came online and it must have spooked them. (we saw them straight away at the edge of the radar coverage) But I am surprised few people use these things, I've seen it only once in a pro-league replay.

Anyway, we combined our forces once again and made a push to control the centre of the map. The map has three natural expansions you have to share with your team mate, plus four gold expansions in a 'N, E, S, W' cross position in the map. By controlling the centre of the map, you not only control those gold expansions but you deny them to the opposition. His Stalkers and Zealots and my Marines and Marauders took on their Stalkers and Marines and prevailed. What followed was a kind of back-and-forth reversal as they pushed back, and our army was destroyed. This is the part where we were lucky, because although we lost our army we had halved their force as well, but it would have been enough if they had pushed into our base. But they went shy, giving us crucial time to rebuild. Spyder built a Mothership which just ruin everyone's shit, while I built Thors, MMM, and even Vikings. By cloaking our army they could not do anything. Unfortunately that mothership went down, but Spyder built another one and had half a dozen carriers as well, while I had 5 Thors and a bunch of marauders left over. By this point we had regained the centre of the map and had taken down one of their gold expansions. By the time they pushed again, Spyder's new mothership had arrived and I had gotten half a dozen siege tanks and was shelling terran's base. When they counter pushed, they took down Spyder's mothership but we had completely obliterated their forces, were rallied just outside a ramp into their base, and had suffered few casualties. They gg'ed soon after that. When I watched the replay it was clear they had no more minerals left.

I played the same map with a friend of mine but against two very hard AI. Both my friend and I were pissed off at the AI because we've played together quite often and we've found hard AI to be a push over. But when we went to very hard on Friday night, it kicked our asses several times. Yesterday afternoon, we decided we weren't going to take the computer's shit any longer. I was terran and he plays zerg. Turtling was my responsibility but he had a mobile force of roaches and hydras to reinforce our ramp. The AI was zerg and protoss, and when they pushed we had bunkers, siege tanks and roaches and hydras ready for them. What was frightening before was the AI building a huge number of units and completely smashing through our fortifications. That didn't happen this time because we were smarter in our defence. (i.e. I was the one who built fortifications but his mobile force is what really helps because it can kite the AI as well as outflank them while they're busy worrying about my siege tanks) After the AI pushed and wiped out my siege tanks (but were wiped out themselves), my mate did a counter push while I hastily rebuilt. This force was sacrificed but it did enough damage to stall the AI from another push. During this time we both expanded, he took one of the natural expansions as well as a gold expansion, I took both the remaining naturals. His gold expansion was protected by what must have been over a dozen spine crawlers. I was a bit slow in reinforcing him and when the AI pushed again, they took out a lot of crawlers but couldn't take the expansion out. I built an army of siege tanks and had them siege up behind an alcove where a xel'naga tower was, and good lord was this an excellent position for tanks. Another AI push was massacred simply because they got shot at by my tanks, and when they came in to attack his spine crawlers and hydra/roach army finished them off. I was also building a fleet of battlecruisers. We then went on the offensive.

Man I love battlecruisers and siege tanks. The AI's base was wiped out in like two minutes.

[Zed]

I just played a pretty nice Zerg versus Zerg - both of us were going muta-ling, and both of us had about the same number out at the start, but I managed to beat back his initial attack due to superior micro and the presence of a queen. Once I got ahead a few in the mutalisk count, I managed to harass him, contain him in his base, force him to build spore crawlers and make a few expansions myself. The rest of the game was pretty much 'fly around his base trying to kill stuff not protected by either his army of mutalisks and corruptors or a spore crawler' and outmacroing him.

[ArmorPierce]

Bah... Has anyone run into the strateg where the terran player parks a tank on top of cliffs with marines making it impossible to destroy them as they rain death on your bases? So so lame

[Thanas]

I find it lame for Protoss to sacrifice flying units so their void rays can attack your base fully charged up.

[Stofsk]

Bah... Has anyone run into the strateg where the terran player parks a tank on top of cliffs with marines making it impossible to destroy them as they rain death on your bases? So so lame

What's lame about that? Some maps like Lost Temple make that tactic really effective. But it has a counter to it. For one thing, maybe you should take the high ground yourself for your defence if you're terran. If you're zerg, mutas would wipe it out in two seconds. Protoss can use collossi to take care of the marines and spot for either the immortals you have or stalkers with blink.

What's lame is stuff like building photon cannons in someone's base, or just outside it. Cheesy as anything and highly irritating.

[Stofsk]

So I'm qualifying for 1v1 on the league, and I've done 4 placement matches.

Match 1: Reaper rushed to victory.
Match 2: Pretty good game versus a golder.
Match 3: TvZ, I won because I did a reaper rush which transitioned to a marauder/marine push. Guy gg'd after 11 mins roughly.
Match 4: Holy shit.

Christ that last game was incredible. Really top effort by him, excellent game. I don't want to spoil it though. It is around 47 mins.

[Alferd Packer]

I find it lame for Protoss to sacrifice flying units so their void rays can attack your base fully charged up.

Unfortunately, the only hard counter to Voidrays is either mass Viking, or just not letting them get the units at all. Voidrays do cost a lot, so unless they're on three bases, they're cutting their ground army to get them. I will usually send in a dropship or two loaded full of marines to snipe their Stargate(s). When faced with a Voidray rush, your only real option is to have missile turrets up, along with as many marines as you can get.

I usually don't wall in when facing Protoss, and I tend to keep the buildings in my main pretty clumped together. This allows fewer missile turrets to cover the important buildings. What's more, a few well-placed bunkers will allow marines to survive long enough to destroy a Voidray rush, and since they're salvageable, they actually don't cost anything. Unless they blow up, of course.

What's lame is stuff like building photon cannons in someone's base, or just outside it. Cheesy as anything and highly irritating.

I actually prefer to go against such cheesy tactics, because it's usually the sign of a bad player who wants an easy win. A cannon rush is costly and will set back the Protoss player's proper army development by many minutes, longer than it'll take you to deal with the cannons in your base.

I've been cannon rushed twice, and both times, I wound up winning. One guy actually got cannons in range of my mineral line, and it took me a while to deal with the cannons and pylons he'd set up. When I pushed out a little while later, however, I easily steamrolled his base. The second time, my entrance was blocked by cannons. This was done, however, on Kulas Ravine, so I just knocked down the rocks, expanded to the high ground, and attacked that way. Again, I easily steamrolled him.

[Stofsk]

Five win streak during placement and platinum league here I come!

I can't believe it.

Just because I'm in the mood to upload my replays:
1st Match where I won by reaper rush
and the 3rd Match

Some team league replays:
Me and my mate do some harass and then make a combined push
This was a cool 3v3 match which had Kojiro and I bail out his mate, I mentioned it in a previous post
Another match I mentioned in a previous post, this one has Spyder and I kicking some butt

What's lame is stuff like building photon cannons in someone's base, or just outside it. Cheesy as anything and highly irritating.

I actually prefer to go against such cheesy tactics, because it's usually the sign of a bad player who wants an easy win. A cannon rush is costly and will set back the Protoss player's proper army development by many minutes, longer than it'll take you to deal with the cannons in your base.

I've been cannon rushed twice, and both times, I wound up winning. One guy actually got cannons in range of my mineral line, and it took me a while to deal with the cannons and pylons he'd set up. When I pushed out a little while later, however, I easily steamrolled his base. The second time, my entrance was blocked by cannons. This was done, however, on Kulas Ravine, so I just knocked down the rocks, expanded to the high ground, and attacked that way. Again, I easily steamrolled him.

That's pretty cool. One of the team league matches I've been in with Spyder or Kojiro had them get cannon rushed. Its pretty annoying.

[Thanas]

Man, Siege and I had great fun...then SCII crashed and now battlenet does not respond anymore.

[Siege]

Those were definitely fun games. 1-1: we'll need to play a decider .

[Stark]

I gotta say it puts all the 'no strategy without bases' stuff in perspective when you can have a whole thread about build orders and rushing.

[ArmorPierce]

Bah... Has anyone run into the strateg where the terran player parks a tank on top of cliffs with marines making it impossible to destroy them as they rain death on your bases? So so lame

What's lame about that? Some maps like Lost Temple make that tactic really effective. But it has a counter to it. For one thing, maybe you should take the high ground yourself for your defence if you're terran. If you're zerg, mutas would wipe it out in two seconds. Protoss can use collossi to take care of the marines and spot for either the immortals you have or stalkers with blink.

What's lame is stuff like building photon cannons in someone's base, or just outside it. Cheesy as anything and highly irritating.

Ermm how are you supposed to wipe it out with mutas vs stimpacked marines + medvacs with mutalisks. I am high ranked diamond 1v1 btw so I think I know what I'm talking about.

[Stofsk]

Depends on how many mutas you have versus how many marines he's got. Or better yet just focus fire on the siege tanks. They're the real threat.

One counter I saw in a replay was having an overlord hover over the cliff, and placing spine crawlers around the hatchery. A drop was tried but the overlord provided sight for the crawlers to deter it. You could also get an overlord to creepify the cliff, then place a creep tumour there. That way if the overlord gets shot or moves away, the tumour will still provide sight for your forces.

[ArmorPierce]

Problem is it only tanks one sige tank to deny you an expansion and if you are denied an expansion you have no gas and not enough gas to make enough mutas to take out aa turrets or marines. Mutalisks comes later than tanks and you can't attack a terran base because it just takes a couple marines to defend. Furthermore, some maps allow the siege tank to fire on your main base. It is a cheese tactic that I am seeing more and more often in diamond now b the top players.

[Stofsk]

I am certain a zerg player can get that hatchery up at the natural expansion sooner than a terran player can build a factory and starport. And like I said, spine crawlers and an overlord to provide sight can deny that terran player landing a tank there in the first place. But look, I don't play as zerg, I'm hypothesizing. Since you brought it up I might ask my mate the next time I see him online (we play together almost every night anyway, and he loves playing zerg, so he might have some insight into Lost Temple).

On your other point, it doesn't surprise me that cheese tactics are common even in diamond league. I bet people regardless of their placement can probably play good macro, but get undone because some cheeky bugger snuck a barracks right outside their base, or built pylons and photon cannons just outside their mineral line. If it gets them a win, they won't mind, and AFAIK what matters to your ranking is how many wins you have. So you can have some guy in the bronze or silver league who has good macro, but he's in that league because he lost too many placement matches to cheese tactics. Meanwhile the guys who use those cheese tactics get bumped up, but like Alfred Packer said, they probably don't have anything other than that rush. My mate played against a terran who did a bunker rush cheese tactic on him, i.e. he tried containing him in his main by building barracks and bunkers right where his natural expansion would be. My mate kicked his ass. The best part was when he used a nydus worm to attack the terrans initial main, while fending off the marauders on his front ramp.

Incidentally that's why I brought up mutas vs marines. One thing that stood out is that by the end of the game, he was harassing him constantly with heaps of mutas and the guy had only built marines to counter that. While marines with stim packs will fuck mutas up, mutas are far more mobile. So what my friend did was attack him at one side of the base, then when he saw the marines coming he'd circle around and attack from the other side of the guy's base. The guy complained that mutas were imbalanced, which I had to lol at. The guy had a factory, with tech lab, and an armoury, and my friend when he'd circle back to attack the other side of his base, would aim at the tech lab and armoury. You'd think the guy would figure out why, but he didn't.

[Zed]

Lost Temple is a badly designed map, what with the cliffs at the expansions. It's significantly Terran-favored.

[Thanas]

I gotta say it puts all the 'no strategy without bases' stuff in perspective when you can have a whole thread about build orders and rushing.

Sorry, not getting your meaning here.