AIs

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Oh btw terwynn, according to your logic operating free AIs is more costly then paying thousands of workers. thank you for showing you have no grasp on reality.

Were you born stupid? Or did you become stupid through accident or intent? Let's compare the costs shall we?

Human:
Machine comprised of mostly of water and some miscellaneous goo. Not very durable, not really specialized at anything. Rather slow.
Costs:
- Costs associated with growing the grains and vegetables, and animals required to give the human his daily Big Mac. Used to repair the human and keep him in functional condition.
- Costs involved in mining materials and harvesting wood to construct storage places (houses/apartments) for these humans.
- Cost in electricity and wood and miscellaneous materials required to educate the human how to do the work required of him.

Technowank industry droid
Machine consisting mostly of either metal or carbon composites with some miscellaneous goo. Varies in durability and speed. Can be highly specialized.
Costs:
- Costs associated with mining the metals out of the earth, and the costs involved in generating the electricity required to assemble the droid. This does not factor in the time required to build it, nor the research and development money, as well as the costs involved in building and testing prototypes.
- Costs involved in mining the coal/oil/hydrogen required to generate the power necessary to keep the machine going.
- Costs involved in mining the materials and harvesting the wood necessary to construct storage places (alcoves/warehouses) for these droids.
- Costs in electricity, mining materials from the Earth and various research/development and testing costs involved in creating the firmware/software that operates these droids.

Now take a good look at the two lists. Notice anything yet?

Time's up! Guess what, they're practically the same. If anything, the humans are arguably cheaper!

Why, you ask?

A) The human doesn't have research and development costs associated with him. (The dead hand of Darwin, or the psychotic hand of God did all of that for us.)
B) It doesn't cost near as much to build another human. They take great pleasure in doing it for you. You don't need to spend the resources to build a factory, or the machine tools within the factory that you'd need to build the robots.

[Pu-239]

So the only people left are the supervisors, the executives, and the designers/engineers. We just cut the cost of steel and electricty by half, atleast, since neither of them have the limitations placed on them by financial issues (they can, afterall get as much electricity and steel as they want now that they dont have to rely on workers who each require money).

Dammit, you are wrong. Engineers might be replaced too. Already there is progress in designing circuits and things by randomly arranging and connecting components on a computer model. The best is further modified by random means, and so on, like evolution. Of course you still need engineers to design the computers that will do this. Still, that's mass unemployment. The transfer will be painful, but neccessary.

[UltraViolence83]

Dammit, you are wrong. Engineers might be replaced too. Already there is progress in designing circuits and things by randomly arranging and connecting components on a computer model. The best is further modified by random means, and so on, like evolution. Of course you still need engineers to design the computers that will do this. Still, that's mass unemployment. The transfer will be painful, but neccessary.

How can people buy things if they can't find work? Why is it neccessary? Pardon me, but I don't want to live in a world where all I can do is design robots until they can design themselves.

Fuck the Singularity.

[UltraViolence83]

The only way I see AIs getting off the ground is if they are build to do jobs that humans won't/can't do, like super-dangerous tasks that would normally be regarded as suicide.

P.S. I also point out that though the AI optismitists say that we will be replaced due to robots' superiority ( ), that isn't neccesarily true. My great-grandfather had to work in a hellish factory 14 hours a day and poor wages. Society implemented labor laws to end that. Yet, working your employees that long would result in less work shifts, thus less employess, thus less overhead. Technology shapes society in the beginning, but society shapes technology in the end.

[SirNitram]

Looks like Kojikun chickened out of his threat to return. Oh well, maybe now we can get some logical discussion going on.

What're the moral implications of this stuff? A true sentient AI can think, feel, and learn.. Should it be granted the rights a human does? Or should it be restrained? Will we see Fundies going nuts(Wait, we always do). Will hippies alone make up the Sentient Rights groups?

[SyntaxVorlon]

Dammit, you are wrong. Engineers might be replaced too. Already there is progress in designing circuits and things by randomly arranging and connecting components on a computer model. The best is further modified by random means, and so on, like evolution. Of course you still need engineers to design the computers that will do this. Still, that's mass unemployment. The transfer will be painful, but neccessary.

To actually have machine evolution there would have to be billions of units to go through. Really to create an AI you would need to create a computer network or computer as complex and as interconnected as the human brain or any brain. As it is it would probably be easier to create really fast comps and figure out how to i/o port humans to them. The only way to have AIs evolve would to create a network with thousands and thousands of exabytes and have little virii(as bad a name for this sort of prog as a horseless carriage is for an automobile) reproducing and competeing or cooperating in the struggle to reproduce. Eventually, given enough clock speed and space, one of them will become king of the hill and that will probably be smart enough to be an AI. Each one of the starter progs would have to be reproducing and selfprogramming. So a better name would be Reproducing Optimizer Programs, ROPs. They could have a show on Fox about how they kick the shit out of whitetrash with wife beaters on, the whitetrash. Having an optimizer inside your head would probably be useful, rewriting your own code not just some computers.

[kojikun]

actually i didnt say i was returning at all. but you cant argue the point since you dont know what the point is that im making.

[UltraViolence83]

To actually have machine evolution there would have to be billions of units to go through. Really to create an AI you would need to create a computer network or computer as complex and as interconnected as the human brain or any brain. As it is it would probably be easier to create really fast comps and figure out how to i/o port humans to them. The only way to have AIs evolve would to create a network with thousands and thousands of exabytes and have little virii(as bad a name for this sort of prog as a horseless carriage is for an automobile) reproducing and competeing or cooperating in the struggle to reproduce. Eventually, given enough clock speed and space, one of them will become king of the hill and that will probably be smart enough to be an AI. Each one of the starter progs would have to be reproducing and selfprogramming. So a better name would be Reproducing Optimizer Programs, ROPs. They could have a show on Fox about how they kick the shit out of whitetrash with wife beaters on, the whitetrash. Having an optimizer inside your head would probably be useful, rewriting your own code not just some computers.

Hooo boy, that all sounds too complicated. Imagine the bugs in THAT thing!

I don't see the point of that fox show...Yet, there aren't any point to most of them. I wanna see Battlebots that spew blood! Lol.

[His Divine Shadow]

think they are possible? are they a good idea?

Possible, yes, good idea, depends, with all the fuckheads in the world it might be too good an idea.

[His Divine Shadow]

I would assume that if one where to create a society whose needs where all done by automated robots and somewhat intelligent AI's one could create a very cultureish soceity, I assume one could even have true AI's and Mind equivalents that watch over them and such, but how to move our society from that to such a thing, or even why one would want to, is harder to do.

[His Divine Shadow]

Dammit, you are wrong. Engineers might be replaced too. Already there is progress in designing circuits and things by randomly arranging and connecting components on a computer model. The best is further modified by random means, and so on, like evolution. Of course you still need engineers to design the computers that will do this. Still, that's mass unemployment. The transfer will be painful, but neccessary.

To actually have machine evolution there would have to be billions of units to go through. Really to create an AI you would need to create a computer network or computer as complex and as interconnected as the human brain or any brain. As it is it would probably be easier to create really fast comps and figure out how to i/o port humans to them. The only way to have AIs evolve would to create a network with thousands and thousands of exabytes and have little virii(as bad a name for this sort of prog as a horseless carriage is for an automobile) reproducing and competeing or cooperating in the struggle to reproduce. Eventually, given enough clock speed and space, one of them will become king of the hill and that will probably be smart enough to be an AI. Each one of the starter progs would have to be reproducing and selfprogramming. So a better name would be Reproducing Optimizer Programs, ROPs. They could have a show on Fox about how they kick the shit out of whitetrash with wife beaters on, the whitetrash. Having an optimizer inside your head would probably be useful, rewriting your own code not just some computers.

It would be easier to use a human brain as an example and do a rough inorganic duplicate of it.

[NecronLord]

Don't worry, society is already gearing up for AIs, not just by making them smarter, but by making the average person dumber. Hell, 50 years ago, nobody ever would have mistaken an AIMbot for a real person. but nowadays they pass off for your typical AOL-user. We're not going to have human-like AI, we're just going to both meet in a sub-par middle. Oh, and they're doing the same thing for androids, too. That's why it's now considered 'sexy' for women to have straw-like hair, silicone breasts, and a slick coating of orange latex 'skin'. Again, we're both just going to meet in the middle. [/doomsayer]

Hmm...stupid robots and stupid humans uniting...seems deserving.

And then, the Denizens of SD.Net will rise to supremacy over all in the world...

[UltraViolence83]

Overlord Ultra. I like the sound of that.