For fun only.

[Imperial528]

Well, for one thing: Droids may be weak, but they carry the same firepower as a Clone Trooper would. Super Battle droids and Droidekas may even carry much more firepower, not to mention the Droideka's shielding. And while they did, yes, use infantry-charge tactics. They also used air support and artillery fire, and a hell lot of it. Air support more so on the Clone side though.

Zerg...dead human army, but lots of dead Zergs too.

Well, if it's just Zerglings, lots of dead Zerglings (assuming there are enough MG nests and/or choke points the Zerg need to go through first) Other than that the above scenario is spot on. 'Cept that the lots of dead Zerg wouldn't be a problem for the Zerg. (Unless the humans decided to shell the Zerg's drones)

[Stofsk]

Well, if it's just Zerglings, lots of dead Zerglings (assuming there are enough MG nests and/or choke points the Zerg need to go through first) Other than that the above scenario is spot on. 'Cept that the lots of dead Zerg wouldn't be a problem for the Zerg. (Unless the humans decided to shell the Zerg's drones)

Why? Zerglings are regularly thrown at marines with rapid fire .50 cal gauss rifles. Sure there would be heaps of dead zerglings but I doubt it would be a turkey shoot.

And the zerg wouldn't just use zerglings of course. They have a whole arsenal of bioweapons at their disposal, and air borne flyers that can hit escape velocity, and those are the things that will more than likely decide things.

(don't ask me how mutas fly in space by flapping their wings )

[kilopi505]

Well, for one thing: Droids may be weak, but they carry the same firepower as a Clone Trooper would. Super Battle droids and Droidekas may even carry much more firepower, not to mention the Droideka's shielding. And while they did, yes, use infantry-charge tactics. They also used air support and artillery fire, and a hell lot of it. Air support more so on the Clone side though.

Zerg...dead human army, but lots of dead Zergs too.

Well, if it's just Zerglings, lots of dead Zerglings (assuming there are enough MG nests and/or choke points the Zerg need to go through first) Other than that the above scenario is spot on. 'Cept that the lots of dead Zerg wouldn't be a problem for the Zerg. (Unless the humans decided to shell the Zerg's drones)

World War 1 has some limited AA capabilities. What if I decided that every machine gun and 75 mm pointed upwards gets a Golden BB if the aircraft gets in their ranges?

[Wing Commander MAD]

Stofsk, pray tell, how are you coming to the conclusion that Starfleet mortars were powerful? IIRC we see it fire once and get a funky light show and then the Gorn ship beams up its troops and flees. We never actually see the results of the mortar. Actually, I believe Mike concluded that it was probably an EMP based weapon, considering that they actually risked lowering shields to recover personnel.

[Stofsk]

Because we see it fire once and then the gorn ship beams up its troops and flees. I doubt they would have done so if the mortar was weak.

[Purple]

On the other hand if the mortar was strong (say like a modern one) I doubt there would be any point in beaming them up for more than a funeral.

[Srelex]

Weren't the Gorn firing from multiple directions? And how big was that rock formation the mortar targeted?

[Aaron]

The problem with the EMP argument is that a member of Kirk's party says "its a little close for one of the jewels." And then they all hurry to the other side of the crater, they were obviously concerned about caught in the blast. An EMP weapon also doesn't remove the danger of the Gorn, you can still aim and fire weapons without a tricorder or sensors.

[Temujin]

Well, this is what Mike wrote regarding the mortar (bolding mine):

When they were finally able to locate a mortar of their own in order to return fire, they fired an interesting billiard-ball shell. This shell had a very large wide-area effect; so wide, in fact, that they fired it without a forward observer or even a tricorder reading, since Spock's tricorder had already been destroyed. Instead, they fired it based on a location estimate, roughly based on the Gorns' last known position. It detonated with a high airburst, and it silenced the Gorn mortar with just one shot! On the surface, this would suggest an extremely powerful weapon such as a low-yield tactical nuclear device. However, it produced none of the effects of a nuclear explosion. There was no shockwave. No deafening roar. No fireball. No prompt ionizing radiation. There was only a bright flash of light, from which the men briefly put their arms up in order to shield their eyes. Given the lack of nuclear or even high-yield chemical explosive effects, it is clear that this shell was not a high explosive or nuclear weapon. Moreover, there is no evidence that any Gorns were actually killed by the blast; the Gorn vessel took the risk of lowering its shields in order to beam its troops back up, which would be illogical if its troops were all dead. It is most likely that the projectile in question was actually some sort of electromagnetic pulse device, designed not to cause physical damage or radiation burns but to disable electronics (such as those in the Gorn projectile launchers, if any, or in the disruptor projectiles themselves). It might have even been capable of "shorting out" biochemical nervous systems, thus causing disorientation or perhaps even unconsciousness (although there is no way of ascertaining the validity of this speculation). In short, it is most likely that the weapon was an EMP grenade.

I'm thinking it have been a cross between an EMP/"shorting out" biochemical nervous systems type weapon and something like an advanced neutron bomb, without a traditional nuclear bomb to trigger the effect. That might account for the lack of a blast yet still make the weapon quasi-lethal. The Gorn troops, while not all killed or incapacitated, might have required immediate medical assistance in order to survive. We know Star trek tech can reverse the effects of radiation damage to some degree, hence why the Gorn beamed their troops out so quickly.

[Aaron]

I'm certainly more willing to accept a hybrid device then a pure EMP. I've also considered just writing the whole effect off as a result of poor special effects, TOS had rather primitive ones after all.

Edit: Spelling.

[Temujin]

Before reading Mike's site, I assumed it was a micro nuke/neutron bomb or a micro M/AM warhead. Some non-canonical stuff from the TOS era I once came across described something similar to the latter for use on the battlefield.

[Star Wars 888]

What about the Federation? Could modern day Earth defeat them if air support and the possible numerical disparity is negated? Oops, the OP said non-human. Hm...what about the dwarves or orcs of Lord of the Rings? They still use medieval age tech so we could defeat them quite easily.

[Star Wars 888]

Also, starship troopers would get pwned by modern day armies in a ground war with numbers being equalized due to starship trooper's super shitty tactics. Their tactics are among the dumbest in sci fi.

[kilopi505]

I said historical armies, not modern armies. From 1500 B.C. to WW1 period.

[kilopi505]

Umm, am I allowed to restart this whole thread with one that specifically states historical armies vs. Sci-fi or fantasy armies? with what I have written in the first post as the starting one? It's because...I guess I want more people in on this speculation.

[DudeGuyMan]

Uh, well I can think of about a billion fantasy armies that would get blown to giblets by WW1 forces as easily as any other schmucks with swords would. Didn't I read something here years ago about how the orc army in the ROTK movie would get run over in about 5 seconds by that of Alexander the Great?

As far as sci-fi forces go, if they're on television/film and include major characters, then they probably don't regularly wear NBC protection, because covering the faces of the actors is bad. WW1 forces probably end up gassing them to death unless they're very careful.

[Star Wars 888]

Uh, well I can think of about a billion fantasy armies that would get blown to giblets by WW1 forces as easily as any other schmucks with swords would. Didn't I read something here years ago about how the orc army in the ROTK movie would get run over in about 5 seconds by that of Alexander the Great?

Really? Where did you read that? That sounds like it could be interesting.

But yeah, Mordor would get shit stomped by any large and well organized enough industrial and and after army.

As far as sci-fi forces go, if they're on television/film and include major characters, then they probably don't regularly wear NBC protection, because covering the faces of the actors is bad. WW1 forces probably end up gassing them to death unless they're very careful.

Starship troopers would probably get pwned by WW1 forces with a competent leader in a ground battle of even numbers; those starship troopers had SHIT tactics.

[kilopi505]

Uh, well I can think of about a billion fantasy armies that would get blown to giblets by WW1 forces as easily as any other schmucks with swords would. Didn't I read something here years ago about how the orc army in the ROTK movie would get run over in about 5 seconds by that of Alexander the Great?

Really? Where did you read that? That sounds like it could be interesting.

But yeah, Mordor would get shit stomped by any large and well organized enough industrial and and after army.

As far as sci-fi forces go, if they're on television/film and include major characters, then they probably don't regularly wear NBC protection, because covering the faces of the actors is bad. WW1 forces probably end up gassing them to death unless they're very careful.

Starship troopers would probably get pwned by WW1 forces with a competent leader in a ground battle of even numbers; those starship troopers had SHIT tactics.

Where can Is ee that topic. About Alexander the Great curbstomping Mordor?
And will WW1 armies be effective against the Bugs?

[Junghalli]

Re: the ST:TOS Gorn episode mortar: there's precedent in Trek for weapons that make things disappear without the mess that would normally be associated with doing that through raw energy. Phasers. Maybe it was some sort of large area effect phaser-like device.

[Aaron]

Re: the ST:TOS Gorn episode mortar: there's precedent in Trek for weapons that make things disappear without the mess that would normally be associated with doing that through raw energy. Phasers. Maybe it was some sort of large area effect phaser-like device.

Thats a pretty interesting idea. And we saw in BoT that ship phasers have an area setting.

[Stofsk]

They also had that heavy phaser artillery device thing in 'The Cage' now that I think about it.

TOS really paints Starfleet in a cooler light.

[Temujin]

Re: the ST:TOS Gorn episode mortar: there's precedent in Trek for weapons that make things disappear without the mess that would normally be associated with doing that through raw energy. Phasers. Maybe it was some sort of large area effect phaser-like device.

Thats a pretty interesting idea. And we saw in BoT that ship phasers have an area setting.

Granted it was only used for stun (just like we only see stun for wide angle shots from hand phasers), though with the power of a ships phasers you should be able to crank up the juice to actual kill someone (if not more). While kill isn't a setting, we know heavy, repeated, or point blank to the temple stun shots can kill. I figure the mortar has a similar quasi-lethal effect.

And on this page, you can see a frame by frame view of the detonation.

[Aaron]

No, no, in Balance of Terror we actually saw the Big E use it's phasers as a sort of flak gun (because they hadn't thought of PTs yet) against the Romulan Bird of Prey.

[Temujin]

Oh, you meant the whole "set Phasers to proximity fuse" deal.

Edit: I thought you were referring to wide area stun from "A Piece of the Action"