The Daily Telegraph wrote:Saliva samples taken from 39 relatives of the Nazi leader show he may have had biological links to the “subhuman” races that he tried to exterminate during the Holocaust.
Jean-Paul Mulders, a Belgian journalist, and Marc Vermeeren, a historian, tracked down the Fuhrer’s relatives, including an Austrian farmer who was his cousin, earlier this year.
A chromosome called Haplogroup E1b1b1 which showed up in their samples is rare in Western Europe and is most commonly found in the Berbers of Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, as well as among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
"One can from this postulate that Hitler was related to people whom he despised," Mr Mulders wrote in the Belgian magazine, Knack.
Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population.
Knack, which published the findings, says the DNA was tested under stringent laboratory conditions.
"This is a surprising result," said Ronny Decorte, a genetic specialist at the Catholic University of Leuven.
"The affair is fascinating if one compares it with the conception of the world of the Nazis, in which race and blood was central.
“Hitler's concern over his descent was not unjustified. He was apparently not "pure" or ‘Ayran’.”
It is not the first time that historians have suggested Hitler had Jewish ancestry.
His father, Alois, is thought to have been the illegitimate offspring of a maid called Maria Schickelgruber and a 19-year-old Jewish man called Frankenberger.
Actually, i'm pretty sure that this is nothing new. The genetic evidence might be, but i think we had genealogy that told us the same thing before.
But other than that - Hitler never looked like his "perfect arian" - tall, blond and blue eyes? He was small and had brown hair and eyes
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
Yeah, the idea that Hitler himself was...genetically questionable...have been around since during his lifetime. But it's nice to see laboratory confirmation. Just for chuckles.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Yeah, it was. It is at least twenty years ago since historians reconstructed Hitler's geneology and even provided records of the Nazis taking great pains to obstruct Hitler's heritage, including the bulldozing of cemetaries and forcibly renaming families.
Really, this is nothing new.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Yeah, it was. It is at least twenty years ago since historians reconstructed Hitler's geneology and even provided records of the Nazis taking great pains to obstruct Hitler's heritage, including the bulldozing of cemetaries and forcibly renaming families.
Really, this is nothing new.
Is there a good decent article to read on that?
STGOD: Byzantine Empire Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
tim31 wrote:Wrong, Chief. Now it's been proven by REAL SCIENTISTS!
Fun fact: History has been a science long before any chemistry existed.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Is there a good decent article to read on that?
I only know of German ones.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
tim31 wrote:Wrong, Chief. Now it's been proven by REAL SCIENTISTS!
Fun fact: History has been a science long before any chemistry existed.
Historians are lacking in machines that go *PING* though. All real scientists have machines that go *PING*, or else how do you know that science is going on?
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Awesome that they've been able to find genetic evidence of Hitler's self-loathing racism and hypocracy.
eion wrote:Awesome that they've been able to find genetic evidence of Hitler's self-loathing racism and hypocracy.
Eh, you know what Neo-Nazis say to that in my experience? "See? Even those dirty (insert "race" here) know that they are inferior. One of them (Hitler, maybe other examples) even admitted that and wanted to take the proper action"
No, really, i am not kidding. Such an argument will not faze any Nazis.
By the way, my post above should look like this:
Actually, i'm pretty sure that this is nothing new. The genetic evidence might be, but i think we had genealogy that told us the same thing before.
But other than that - Hitler never looked like his "perfect arian" - tall, blond and blue eyes? He was small and had brown hair and eyes
An smiley instead of an . Tough the latter might also be appropriate, one can get angry at hypocrisy after all.
SoS:NBAGALE Force "Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
"In 1969 it was easier to send a man to the Moon than to have the public accept a homosexual" - Broomstick Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
Civilization (neo-Nazis don't count for obvious reasons) has long since rejected Hitlerism.* The last step, and the one that hurts the few remaining neo-Nazis the most, is to make Hitlerism into a sort of laughable-if-it-weren't-so-tragic thing. One has to rob it of the warped charisma it gets from its status as the "most evil" and reveal it for what it is, at heart, especially in the modern era: a sad, bloated monster that does not and never truly did make sense to the clear-minded.
For that, playing up Hitler's "undesirable" ancestry works perfectly, because it turns the whole thing into a sick deranged farce instead of a coherent ideology.
*I choose this word deliberately; it was used at the time so I feel it's all right to use when appropriate.
General Zod wrote:Hasn't it been speculated for some time that Hitler had Jewish relatives? I seem to remember hearing about stuff like this years ago.
Given that Hitler exempted himself and Jesus Christ from the "racial hygiene" laws (which determined who was a Jew or Gypsy), he must have known or suspected there was a Jewish branch in his family tree.
So, in the end, the chief driver of Hitler's xenophobia and paranoia as well as his reality-denial: self-hatred. For him, the whole world was his enemy and he would have been compelled not only to reject the "undesirable" strain in his makeup that separated him from the noble Germanic race he so admired but also to destroy all physical traces of that heritage, so as to erase all doubt of his own "purity" —which he was going to bring about by an act of will. And probably he lived every day in fear that his secret was going to be revealed.
Hitler hated his father, hated the Jews and he hated the world, because he hated himself most of all.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
Curious to see how the neo-nazi scum would respond to this, I took a trip over to Stormfront. Some searching brought me to their news forum. I scrolled down it, at first thinking either they hadn't heard of this glorious development yet or were ignoring it. Finally, I got to a post titled "Morons say Hitler had African blood" or some other fucking stupid tripe. Most of the comments were predictable. It seemed they either denied that it was factual, usually followed by a claim of JEW PROPAGANDA. The next biggest group was the "I THOUGHT RACE WASN'T A REAL SCIENCE" bullshit, totally disregarding the fact that it showed he had ethnic Jews and Africans, which are both undeniably peoples he hated. Third, was the "this is why race mixing is bad" crowd, who didn't seem to understand one man with "mixed race" (I'm fairly sure everybody has relatives of another race) doesn't condemn an entire people. Oh wait these are neo-Nazis.
tl,dr they either ignored it, or made excuses for it
i don't think there is anyone that can actually claim pure blood on this planet to tell you the truth. This even applies to the jerks that waltz about in white hoods. Unless a group has spent centuries in isolation there is going to be blood mixing from just normal migrations and travel of peoples. It is true that no man is an island.
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That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
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kouchpotato wrote:Curious to see how the neo-nazi scum would respond to this, I took a trip over to Stormfront. Some searching brought me to their news forum. I scrolled down it, at first thinking either they hadn't heard of this glorious development yet or were ignoring it. Finally, I got to a post titled "Morons say Hitler had African blood" or some other fucking stupid tripe. Most of the comments were predictable. It seemed they either denied that it was factual, usually followed by a claim of JEW PROPAGANDA. The next biggest group was the "I THOUGHT RACE WASN'T A REAL SCIENCE" bullshit, totally disregarding the fact that it showed he had ethnic Jews and Africans, which are both undeniably peoples he hated. Third, was the "this is why race mixing is bad" crowd, who didn't seem to understand one man with "mixed race" (I'm fairly sure everybody has relatives of another race) doesn't condemn an entire people. Oh wait these are neo-Nazis.
tl,dr they either ignored it, or made excuses for it
Ah, but you see, that's the beauty of it: the goosesteppers are now trapped having to defend their little tin god from a fact of history and genetics that makes him pathetic and laughable as well as despicable, and the more defensive they get, the more shrill, pathetic, and laughable they get. And attempts to deny the "science" of racialism undermine their whole ideology, which is based on this very pseudoscience. And if they try to attack race-mixing, they attack Hitler in the same breath. They can no longer make a coherent argument for anything, and what arguments they do make are now far easier to turn back against them. The truth is the knife that will twist in their guts for as long as a single neo-Nazi remains on this planet.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
Today I informed my Black co-worker that on my mom's side I'm distantly related to Nat Turner. (That and having a Panther for a godmother freaked people out given how pale I am)
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
tim31 wrote:Wrong, Chief. Now it's been proven by REAL SCIENTISTS!
Fun fact: History has been a science long before any chemistry existed.
Historians are lacking in machines that go *PING* though. All real scientists have machines that go *PING*, or else how do you know that science is going on?
That's why historians have archaeologists. Someone needs to do the real work
