I'm interested in how likely it would have been for him to actually achieve this. I admittedly know little about Denmark's history, but I doubt the populace would have been eager to be incorporated into the Kingdom of Prussia (and later, assuming this does not change the direction of history) the German Empire. Was nationalism strong enough in Denmark to lead to a wholesale rejection of the King, or perhaps a civil war?Denmark was offered to Germany
Wednesday, 18 August 2010 12:18 ALF News .King Christian IX was prepared to forfeit the nation to save Schleswig and Holstein
The Danish King Christian IX allegedly offered Denmark to the Prussian King Wilhelm I in July 1864. This was apparently a desperate effort to keep the south Jutland regions of Schleswig and Holstein within Denmark, following the Danes’ defeat by the German forces.
Author Tom Buk-Swientys describes the events in a new book which will be published later this month, following unprecedented research of Christian IX’s private archives, conducted with the permission of the Queen Margrethe.
Christian IX was born and raised in southern Schleswig and was eager for the country to hold on to the two regions, feeling that even if Denmark became a German state, it would still reign over Schleswig and Holstein. However, since he contacted the Prussians behind the back of the Danish government, he could have been charged with treason.
The Prussians decided they would have had too many problems with Denmark becoming a German state, instead incorporating only Schleswig and Holstein.
Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 war.
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Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 war.
King Christian IX almost offered Denmark to Prussia during the Second Schleswig War
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Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
At this time, did Denmark contain areas outside of Jutland? If it did, wouldn't the other powers have supported Austria, sparking off a much larger Austro - Prussian war of 1866? Even with Jutland, Russia or Britain would not be happy.
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Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
Denmark had other territories as well, such as Greenland, the Faroe Islands in the North Atlantic, Iceland, and the Danish West Indies in the Caribbean. What happens to these if the annexation did go through is debatable. Prussia might occupy them as colonies, or might sell them, among other possibilities.Bottlestein wrote:At this time, did Denmark contain areas outside of Jutland? If it did, wouldn't the other powers have supported Austria, sparking off a much larger Austro - Prussian war of 1866? Even with Jutland, Russia or Britain would not be happy.
Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
Slesvig (about 50% German IIRC), Holstein & Lauenburg both entirely German in addition to the North Atlantic islands. Bismarck offered the Danes roughly the current border and even a popular referendum but it was rejected. The King's offer was rejected mainly because it would result in Prussia having to suppress the German provinces in support of the Danish goverment. The Danish obstructionism finally resulted in them losing the whole of Slesvig, the northern parts were returned after WWI but an offer to extend Denmark into German areas was rejected.Bottlestein wrote:At this time, did Denmark contain areas outside of Jutland?
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Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
This would have been quite a nice coup for the Danish - it would instantly fracture the Prussian-German coalition.
Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway to go to war with Prussia for the independence of Denmark, for they were only contend to sit back as long as the balance of power in the baltic/North Europe would remain favorable to them (which means: No Prussia with a Navy that can challenge their trade and no Prussia being able to close the trade with forts).
Even more, it would have sapped the strength of Prussia by forcing it to direct its energies and resources northwards, not against Austria and France.
The end result would most likely be an overextended Prussia and a subjugated Denmark which would regain its independence within a few years.
Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway to go to war with Prussia for the independence of Denmark, for they were only contend to sit back as long as the balance of power in the baltic/North Europe would remain favorable to them (which means: No Prussia with a Navy that can challenge their trade and no Prussia being able to close the trade with forts).
Even more, it would have sapped the strength of Prussia by forcing it to direct its energies and resources northwards, not against Austria and France.
The end result would most likely be an overextended Prussia and a subjugated Denmark which would regain its independence within a few years.
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Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
I am not familiar with the history of this time, so I was not sure if this coalition would have formed. I thought France and Britain would definitely take issue, but was not sure if Russia would join the coalition.Thanas wrote: Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway to go to war with Prussia for the independence of Denmark
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Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
Such an event might cause further changes down the road. Would a weakened Prussia have enough power to bring about the unification of Germany under the Hohenzollerns? Would the balance of power in Germany shift to Austria? It also sounds like in such a scenario von Bismarck is going to be removed from his position as Minister President, and I doubt there is anyone as good as him to lead Prussia in this period.Thanas wrote:This would have been quite a nice coup for the Danish - it would instantly fracture the Prussian-German coalition.
Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway to go to war with Prussia for the independence of Denmark, for they were only contend to sit back as long as the balance of power in the baltic/North Europe would remain favorable to them (which means: No Prussia with a Navy that can challenge their trade and no Prussia being able to close the trade with forts).
Even more, it would have sapped the strength of Prussia by forcing it to direct its energies and resources northwards, not against Austria and France.
The end result would most likely be an overextended Prussia and a subjugated Denmark which would regain its independence within a few years.
Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
You mean Sweden?Thanas wrote:Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway
Russia has a vital stake in the status of Denmark, because Prussian-held Denmark would mean their Baltic trade could be shut down at will. It would be a bit like if Austria took Constantinople.Bottlestein wrote:I am not familiar with the history of this time, so I was not sure if this coalition would have formed. I thought France and Britain would definitely take issue, but was not sure if Russia would join the coalition.
No chance.Kaiser Caesar wrote:Such an event might cause further changes down the road. Would a weakened Prussia have enough power to bring about the unification of Germany under the Hohenzollerns?
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Re: Danish King offered Denmark to Prussia during the 1864 w
Russia all but told Prussia "the petty squabbles in Schlesvig are not worth fighting a war over, especially not when the Danish had such bad diplomacy". That is of course a different situation to "Prussia annexes Denmark overnight and becomes a naval power in the baltic which can challange Russia" (Keep in mind that the Russian fleet was in a very sorry state - unlike the Danish - and while larger, had no chance of destroying the bases of the Danish fleet, much less of taking Prussian ports).Bottlestein wrote:I am not familiar with the history of this time, so I was not sure if this coalition would have formed. I thought France and Britain would definitely take issue, but was not sure if Russia would join the coalition.Thanas wrote: Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway to go to war with Prussia for the independence of Denmark
Yeah, I wanted to write Sweden-Norway.TC Pilot wrote:You mean Sweden?Thanas wrote:Even further, it would have caused Britain, France, Russia and Norway
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I am not sure if the writer really claims that this was a viable proposal for the Danes. I think this was more of a ploy to get the large powers into the fight - the war strategy of the danes in that war was essentially "blockade them with the Navy, hold them on land by forcing them to engage us in defensive positions and pray for rescue by the British/France/Russia". Neither worked well in RL, but this definitely would have worked had Bismarck been an idiot and taken up the offer.
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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