Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

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Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

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For Mayfield's zoning board, it was about parking spaces. For the 250 residents of this western Kentucky town who reportedly cheered when the zoning board rejected a building permit for a new mosque, it was clearly about something else.

On Tuesday night, the Mayfield Board of Zoning Adjustment rejected a request from a local Somali group to build a mosque along the city's East Broadway, a strip of commercial and industrial properties. According to the Louisville Courier-Journal, the board rejected the mosque application because of concerns there wouldn't be enough parking in the area. (The area in question is pictured on the right.)

The Paducah Sun reports that some 250 area residents, packed into the hearing, "cheered" when the board announced its decision.

Now some observers suspect more than parking space concerns fueled the board's decision, and the Courier-Journal reports that the American Civil Liberties Union is "trying to get more information" about the decision.

What's more, the Courier-Journal reports the Somali group that had petitioned for a zoning variance to allow the mosque to be built weren't present at the time of the decision -- because security had refused them entry, not realizing they were the people behind the project. The C-J reported:

The Paducah Sun and WPSD-TV reported they did come, but were initially denied entrance because the room was full and officers did not realize they were there to represent the project. When the mistake was recognized, officials searched for them outside the building but could not find them, according to the reports.
The C-J reports that Mayfield has a Somali community numbering in the hundreds, who arrived last year to take up work at a local chicken processing plant.

Jeff Keith, a pastor at the First Baptist Church in Mayfield, told the C-J he hoped the Somali group could find another location for the mosque, so that the community wouldn't feel "unwelcome."

“Mayfield ... is a very neighborly area,” he told the newspaper.


But that hasn't always been the case. In fact, the western Kentucky town has an illustrious history of politically-motivated bannings and racial tensions.

In 1986, the local school board banned William Faulkner's 1930 literary classic As I Lay Dying, after a parent complained the book is an example of "secular humanism."

And towards the end of 1896, Mayfield was the site of what the New York Times dubbed at the time "the Kentucky race war." The University of Kentucky Libraries database describes the incident like this:

[i\A couple of days before Christmas 1896, white citizens of Mayfield, KY, were preparing for an attack in response to a report that up to 250 armed African Americans were seeking revenge for the lynching of Jim Stone and the "whitecapping" of African American families. The reports had come from Water Valley and Wingo, KY, and other nearby towns. White women and children in Mayfield were ordered off the street by 6:00 p.m. Homes were barricaded. A dispatch was sent to Fulton, KY, asking for a reinforcement of white men, and guards were posted at the railroad station. When a report arrived stating that African Americans were also arming themselves in Paducah, KY, the fire bell was rung in Mayfield and a defense was positioned in the public square to await the attack. The reinforcements from Fulton arrived by train a little after midnight. Will Suett, an 18-year-old African American, was also at the train station and was gunned down. Shots were fired at three other African Americans. Hundreds of shots were fired into buildings and into the trees. Four homes were burnt down. By Christmas Eve, the threat was over. The reinforcements were sent home. A mass meeting was called, and a petition signed by more than 100 African Americans asked for peace between the races. Three people had been killed, one being Will Suett, who had arrived by train from St. Louis; he was returning home to spend Christmas with his family in Mayfield.[/i]

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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by General Zod »

Eh. It's Kentucky. I honestly can't say it's a shocking outcome for that state.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Solauren »

And now we see what Al Qadia was really aiming for when they pulled 9-11.

They wanted Americans to hate Muslims/Followers of Islam, as much as the irrational ones hate Americans.

This would cause American's to take actions against the Muslims + Islamic faiths, causing increased alienation.
Within their own backyard.

Eventually, Al Qadia might be able to recruit American Citizens because of this kind of crap.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Kanastrous »

One less house of worship is one less house of worship, which to me is a net positive.

Although of course I find distasteful the fact that it's just because it's a minority crazy-group being shafted by the local majority crazy-group. The fact that it's xenophobia/racism takes a lot of the shine off what would otherwise be cause for satisfaction.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Kanastrous wrote:One less house of worship is one less house of worship, which to me is a net positive.

Although of course I find distasteful the fact that it's just because it's a minority crazy-group being shafted by the local majority crazy-group. The fact that it's xenophobia/racism takes a lot of the shine off what would otherwise be cause for satisfaction.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Kanastrous »

Without trying to untangle that, I'll just agree, with the proviso that a net gain remains a net gain* even if you're unhappy about how you got there.


*depending, obviously, upon your definition of what constitutes a 'gain.'

*EDIT* you know, on second thought it's only a net gain if you dismiss the constitutional aspect of it, which we shouldn't do. Let my distaste for more-religious-BS-rather-than-less run away with me, there.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Kanastrous wrote:Without trying to untangle that, I'll just agree, with the proviso that a net gain remains a net gain* even if you're unhappy about how you got there.


*depending, obviously, upon your definition of what constitutes a 'gain.'

*EDIT* you know, on second thought it's only a net gain if you dismiss the constitutional aspect of it, which we shouldn't do. Let my distaste for more-religious-BS-rather-than-less run away with me, there.
You can only call it a net gain if you ignore the ramifications thereof. Yes, it may have prevented a house of worship from being constructed, but the cost was a gigantic shit taken all over the freedom of religion, the rights of minorities not to be subjected to the tyranny of the majority, the fact that this victory is going to embolden these kinds of reactionary fundietards the country over, while at the same time disillusioning and embittering American Muslims (key word highlighted) about the country, thus potentially driving them towards extremism, and almost certainly making them angry.


In addition to that, I think your opinion of what is and is not a gain at all is flawed. Houses of worship are a symptom of belief, not a cause. I think the number of people who've passed a Mosque and been lured in by the Allahrays being beamed at them from the building are infinitesimally small compared to the number of people who already believe and want to build a place to come together to bask in their mutual circle-jerk of sky-pixie worship. They've been trying it for thousands of years, but you can't stop someone from believing just by smashing his place of worship. If anything, you just give him a persecution complex and make him claw even that much harder onto his faith.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Kanastrous »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
You can only call it a net gain if you ignore the ramifications thereof. Yes, it may have prevented a house of worship from being constructed, but the cost was a gigantic shit taken all over the freedom of religion, the rights of minorities not to be subjected to the tyranny of the majority, <snip>
Do you *really* have nothing better to do than keep running on about something when your interlocutor has already agreed with you and noted the validity of what you are continuing to run on about?
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Kodiak »

It made me think of this:



Taking away the rights of a group to worship is abhorrent under any circumstances. What I find most insulting is the town's concern about "parking problems". :roll:

It hearkens back to a time when people weren't bigoted about Black families moving into their neighborhood, they were just "concerned about property values".
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by open_sketchbook »

Kanastrous wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
You can only call it a net gain if you ignore the ramifications thereof. Yes, it may have prevented a house of worship from being constructed, but the cost was a gigantic shit taken all over the freedom of religion, the rights of minorities not to be subjected to the tyranny of the majority, <snip>
Do you *really* have nothing better to do than keep running on about something when your interlocutor has already agreed with you and noted the validity of what you are continuing to run on about?
He raised some good points regardless. It's not nessesarily confrontation to elaborate a point; sometimes yo just think up more stuff you want to say.

I'm interested to see if lack of parking was really the reason for the building permit being reject or if some discrimination was at work.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by General Zod »

Sounds to me like Crossroads' article is leaving out some vital information to make it more sensationalistic. The parking might be a legitimate problem.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/aug/24/mayfield/
Business owner Dick Conner does not want the mosque next to his flower shop, Mayfield Florist and Greenhouse.

Conner said the proposed mosque has six parking spaces, with about 300 people expected to attend Muslim services in the neighborhood. An entertainment center also would be built next to the mosque, Conner said.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Lusankya »

Kanastrous, it is also worth noting that having an increased variety of religions in a region (which has the side-effect of more houses of worship) tends to be correlated with a decrease in the number of religious people. Australia's second-least religious city, for example, has the most churches per capita (Australia's least religious city is called "Darwin" - guess who they like up there). It turns out that having to accept members of other religions as equal forces you to accept that their religion is just as valid as your own. Which, once you realise that different religions tend to be mutually incompatible, leads many people to the logical conclusion that both are bunk.

All that this denial of the mosque is doing is affirming the fact that all of those Christians in Kentucky consider their religion to have much more validity than that of the Muslims, and that, in my opinion, is not a sign of decreased religiosity. So you might be happy thinking that this is some kind of good thing or something, but that's just because you are wrong. ShadowDragon is correct.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Kanastrous »

Well, if more guns can equal less crime, I guess there's no specific reason why more houses of worship can't equal less religion. I'm willing to accept a paradox in pursuit of a worthwhile goal...

...so is the whole you're wrong, you're wrong bit *after someone has already agreed with your position several posts up* a sign that you're not reading or is it an ego thing, with you? Don't get enough opportunities to tell people they're wrong, so you need to hammer on it in an online forum long after it's been acknowledged...?

I know that it's not germane to the actual topic but I was curious.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Lusankya »

Actually, I think I just missed your edit. Probably because I've been up too long.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

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Then I apologize for being snippy in your direction.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Liberty »

General Zod wrote:Sounds to me like Crossroads' article is leaving out some vital information to make it more sensationalistic. The parking might be a legitimate problem.

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2010/aug/24/mayfield/
Business owner Dick Conner does not want the mosque next to his flower shop, Mayfield Florist and Greenhouse.

Conner said the proposed mosque has six parking spaces, with about 300 people expected to attend Muslim services in the neighborhood. An entertainment center also would be built next to the mosque, Conner said.
You just quoted from my hometown newspaper there. Weird.
What's more, the Courier-Journal reports the Somali group that had petitioned for a zoning variance to allow the mosque to be built weren't present at the time of the decision -- because security had refused them entry, not realizing they were the people behind the project.
Wow. This is crazy. Could the Somalis not speak English, or did the security not listen to them?
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

It sounds to me like a convenient excuse.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Simon_Jester »

Lusankya wrote:Kanastrous, it is also worth noting that having an increased variety of religions in a region (which has the side-effect of more houses of worship) tends to be correlated with a decrease in the number of religious people. Australia's second-least religious city, for example, has the most churches per capita (Australia's least religious city is called "Darwin" - guess who they like up there). It turns out that having to accept members of other religions as equal forces you to accept that their religion is just as valid as your own. Which, once you realise that different religions tend to be mutually incompatible, leads many people to the logical conclusion that both are bunk.
I think it may be as much the opposite force at work: people who don't care about the presence of a building where Muslims can worship because they don't fear the consequences of people becoming Muslims instead of Christians are less likely to object to the appearance of new mosques.

So minority religions tend to gravitate towards areas that are more tolerant and, by and large, less fanatical about religion. Thus increasing the variety of religions and number of houses of worship in the area... because the minority religion would rather be surrounded by atheists than by evangelists.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

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Seems to me the solution to the parking problem is to put up 'florist (or whatever) parking only' and tow each and every car parked there unless the driver comes into the store. It would even mean better business for the area, in that the towing and impound company could potentially make a fortune.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

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Kanastrous wrote:Seems to me the solution to the parking problem is to put up 'florist (or whatever) parking only' and tow each and every car parked there unless the driver comes into the store. It would even mean better business for the area, in that the towing and impound company could potentially make a fortune.
I'm pretty sure you can't do that for street parking, which is the impression I get from the article (only six spaces). If the florist is worried about his private parking lot filling up with non-customers, then he's well within his rights already to have them towed.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Alphawolf55 »

Kanastrous wrote:One less house of worship is one less house of worship, which to me is a net positive.

Although of course I find distasteful the fact that it's just because it's a minority crazy-group being shafted by the local majority crazy-group. The fact that it's xenophobia/racism takes a lot of the shine off what would otherwise be cause for satisfaction.
It's retarded attitudes like this that allow christians to believe that they'll soon be a discriminated group.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Alphawolf55 wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:One less house of worship is one less house of worship, which to me is a net positive.

Although of course I find distasteful the fact that it's just because it's a minority crazy-group being shafted by the local majority crazy-group. The fact that it's xenophobia/racism takes a lot of the shine off what would otherwise be cause for satisfaction.
It's retarded attitudes like this that allow christians to believe that they'll soon be a discriminated group.
I think it's more likely the fact that they're doing everything within their power to discriminate against other groups that convinces them that if they don't stay on top of the pile, whoever claws his or her way to the top will start discriminating against them.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Alphawolf55 »

No, they see a trend that more and more people are becoming athiest and they don't believe that athiest are indifferent to religion but rather outright hateful towards it and thus will discriminate against the religious when they become a majority.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by General Zod »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Alphawolf55 wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:One less house of worship is one less house of worship, which to me is a net positive.

Although of course I find distasteful the fact that it's just because it's a minority crazy-group being shafted by the local majority crazy-group. The fact that it's xenophobia/racism takes a lot of the shine off what would otherwise be cause for satisfaction.
It's retarded attitudes like this that allow christians to believe that they'll soon be a discriminated group.
I think it's more likely the fact that they're doing everything within their power to discriminate against other groups that convinces them that if they don't stay on top of the pile, whoever claws his or her way to the top will start discriminating against them.
You're both overthinking this. They simply believe that if you're persecuted because of your beliefs, it helps get you into heaven. Christians screeching about persecution has been a big tool for them for centuries.
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Re: Residents cheer as Kentucky town rejects mosque

Post by Alphawolf55 »

But that theory requires christians to have a detailed knowledge of passages of the bible, most of them even the devoted ones don't.
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